Henry VIII and Wives (1491-1547)

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Tiggersk8

Apparently, researchers have found letters sent by Pope Julius II to the Prince of Wales (Whether this is Arthur or Henry isn't clear) to let his concerns about the religious fervour of Princess of Wales and her health. Apparently, Catherine was going overboard, in his eyes, when it came to her fasting ritiuals. To the point she was ignoring his orders when it came to not going through w/fasts so often.

The letters from Pope Julius II would have been sent to Henry as Prince of Wales, and not to Arthur.

Julius II became Pope on 1 November 1503, long after Arthur was dead.. so if the letters came from the Pope, then they must have been sent to the Prince of Wales at the time.. and that would have been Henry.

Even if they were sent when Julius was Cardinal, it would hardly matter I think. He was known to be a great friend to Henry, and the complaint about Catherine's fasting really wasn't mentioned until after Arthur's death.

In any case, the letters would have to have be dated between June-July 1502 (when Henry became PoW) and 21 April 1509, when he became King.. if they were addressed to the Prince of Wales.

Pope Julius II died in February 1513, just a month or so short of Henry's third anniversary as King.

[IloveCP]

It makes me mad that Henry killed Anne and Catherine for cheating even though he cheated himself.(Not with a lot of women allegedly).But still,it's unfair.I wonder how he felt about himself.I wonder if he was a incescure man.

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

It makes me mad that Henry killed Anne and Catherine for cheating even though he cheated himself.(Not with a lot of women allegedly).But still,it's unfair.I wonder how he felt about himself.I wonder if he was a incescure man.

It would never have even occurred to him to consider that. The long history of sexism when it comes to the concept of virginity and purity comes into play here.

[IloveCP]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

It would never have even occurred to him to consider that. The long history of sexism when it comes to the concept of virginity and purity comes into play here.

Still,he was the head of the church,he may have felt bad about the things he had done since it's looked down upon by religion.

Just a thought!

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

Still,he was the head of the church,he may have felt bad about the things he had done since it's looked down upon by religion.

Just a thought!

He had a new religion created to get around the rules of the first one which is why he became head of the church in the first place.

I somehow doubt he had the "maybe I'm the problem" moment of self-reflection!

[Lenora]

Henry VIII 's most important reform was the Church reformation,but the way he did this was awful.From his very youth he seemed to be the Charming Prince.But with the years passing by,he became obsessed with the idea of son heir and his chracter was growing crueler.He wept and apparently regreted the death of the brilliant minds and councellors he had lead to execution earlier ,but trully he cared only of himself and his interests.It's a tragedy around all of his wives.
He married Catherine of Aragon because his father asked him to do this,she was elder and couldn't give birth to a heir,instead of acting appropriately he accused his wife of commiting adulter with his brother.Of course,Catherine,the daughter of the greatest Isabel of Spain,would have never renounced her rights.He could have tried at least to marry a princess instead of her or he could have married Mary Tudor with King of Scotland,thus all the situation could have been solved easily and without conflicts and blood.
Ann Boleyn was very sure of her charm ,but she hadn't expected the cruelty of the king.She was executed at the young age,when she was still able to become a mother,but the king accused her of witchcraft instead of recognizing his own faults.After alll he had done,he was in search of beauty and innocence ,Anne of Cleves was not attractive enough,while very young Catherine of Howard was expected to love an old man.
He was feared ,but not loved.He died and left a mess in all kingdom.At least he shouldn't have taken Mary of Tudor's legitimacy and he could have married her,as Mary herself was only thinking about her mother,who was "The Queen of Hearts".It's very sad what created Bloody Mary,partially it was her father's fault and if Henry had been cruel.thus this cruelty ran in the veins of his heirs.
The most ironycal is that Henry never expected that he wouldn't have any more descendants.He had 4 children (Henry Fitzroy as well) and all of them died without heirs,all for what Henry created the mess turned to be in vain.
If we suppose that Mary Boleyn's son was Henry's son or Elizabeth had an illegitimate child,it could be different,but anyway the direct line of Tudor dynasty died.

[shari-aree]

Wow!!

I loved all your posts on Henry VIII (My Favourite Historical Royal),
Please all join the Tudor group to discuss his life, wives & children.

A fascinating Man, and a time of so much change, I think we are lucky to have so much information recorded about him!

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

It makes me mad that Henry killed Anne and Catherine for cheating even though he cheated himself.(Not with a lot of women allegedly).But still,it's unfair.I wonder how he felt about himself.I wonder if he was a incescure man.

My dear IloveCP,

The evidence against Anne was weak or non-existent but that did not deter Henry. It does appear to be hypocritical but you must also remember that Henry was the sovereign and adultery by his consort was considered treason. He and the government could have no suspicions regarding the parentage of a child born to the Queen.

[IloveCP]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

My dear IloveCP,

The evidence against Anne was weak or non-existent but that did not deter Henry. It does appear to be hypocritical but you must also remember that Henry was the sovereign and adultery by his consort was considered treason. He and the government could have no suspicions regarding the parentage of a child born to the Queen.

I knew she never cheated on him,I just forgot to mention that in my post!

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Henry VIII is the personification of 1) a horrible husband and 2) why king's&queen's should not have absolute power.

[shari-aree]

But!

Henry VIII lived in a time where the way he acted was considered his right, and acceptable.

Of course now a consort who commits adultery (treason) wouldn't be beheaded - which is lucky for some in our own very recent history!

We cannot judge too harshly, it really was a very different world. . . . . . . at least, Thanks in a part to Henry's actions, we have a lot of History from this time recorded.

He truly was a fascinating Man, even if he was a bad Husband !

[XeniaCasaraghi]

How many monarchs executed their wives? Anyone? Oh yeah Ivan The Terrible!
Even amongst Henry's contemporaries he was looked down upon for his behavior. For marrying his mistresses, for marrying commoners, for discarding of wives at a whim, for murdering his wives etc.

[wanderer11220]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

How many monarchs executed their wives? Anyone? Oh yeah Ivan The Terrible!
Even amongst Henry's contemporaries he was looked down upon for his behavior. For marrying his mistresses, for marrying commoners, for discarding of wives at a whim, for murdering his wives etc.

True, why couldn't they imprison their adulterous wives like they did in the 1700s? I think it has been pretty recent that we've managed to look the other way when these things happen.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I could have sworn that adulterous wives were imprisoned in convents even before the 1700s. I understand that an adulterous wife of a king is seen as treason, but killing 2 wives and almost killing a 3rd is just going way to far.

[IloveCP]

I just learned that Catherine Howard and Anne Boleyn were first cousins.Does anyone know what kinda relationship they had?Were they close or did they never see each other?

[Lenora]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

I just learned that Catherine Howard and Anne Boleyn were first cousins.Does anyone know what kinda relationship they had?Were they close or did they never see each other?

They probably never met,and if it even did happen.it was a meeting of no importance,as at the time Anne Boleyn was alive,Catherine was a child.It's well-known that Catherine had good relationship with Anne's daughter,future Queen Elizabeth,it was probably a great shock for her when Catherine was executed.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I could have sworn that adulterous wives were imprisoned in convents even before the 1700s. I understand that an adulterous wife of a king is seen as treason, but killing 2 wives and almost killing a 3rd is just going way to far.

The penalty for treason was death, until relatively recently and it was, and still is, treason to sleep with the wife of the king or the wife of the heir to the throne. If she does so willingly then she is aiding and abetting treason making her also guilty of treason - with only one possible penalty - death. That was the law.

[Nice Nofret]

From what I read, I think one has to see the "young" Henry appart from the old Henry.

When old he suffered from various diseases: probabely diabetes, syphillis, - diabetes could have been the reason why his leg-wound would not heal; syphillis could explain his change in personality, moodswings etc...

[shari-aree]

We don't have to like it, but as I said it really was a very different world back then.

Henry did what he did because he could!

Whilst I don't agree with many of his recorded actions, he is still a fascinating human, he 'did' alot in his life which brought about many changes.

Whenever researching Henry VIII - I always feel very sorry for Katharine of Aragon, she may have lived - but in the end it wasn't a happy existance.

I love the passion that Henry provokes - Please join the social group The Tudors, and express all your opinions on Henry, his wifes & children.

We are lucky to have information on this time, and this is probably due to Henry's many wifes and how some of them were 'discarded'.

[Zonk]

Relation of Catherine and Anne
Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were first cousins.

Thomas, 2nd Duke of Norfolk > Elizabeth > Anne

Thomas, 2nd Duke of Norfolk > Edmund > Catherine Howard

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And yes if memory serves me correct, there was many a wife (royal or not) who was sent to the convent when one wanted to remove an obstacle. Since so many people questioned the legitimacy of Henry's marriage to Anne, upon Catherine's death as well as Anne's failure to produce a son...Henry wanted to make sure there were no such questions with the next wife. So bad luck for Anne who at first thought Henry was just going to divorce her. She soon found out that he was going to do it differently.