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  #481  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
This is way I think if King Henry VIII loved anyone of his wives, because he is buried with Queen Jane he loved her much more than any other wife. I think this action speaks volumes. Queen Jane gave him is son.
I don't think Henry loved Jane more than any other of his wives.. he may have held her in more esteem because she provided him with the Tudor heir.. but quite honestly, Jane was the only one left that he could be buried with..

He certainly would not have been buried at Peterborough with Queen Catherine, nor at St. Peter ad Vincula with Anne Boleyn or Kathryn Howard.. and both Anne of Cleves and Katherine Parr outlived him. So Jane was the only choice..
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  #482  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:15 PM
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Good points. However, do you think that Edward had something to do with the burial of his father? I realize he was a young boy but perhaps he wished his father to buried with his mother, or at least the Protectors may have wanted that to honor their family.
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  #483  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:22 PM
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That may be so...but didn't Henry have a family picture painted during his lifetime (when Catherine Parr was his wife) and Jane was painted as Henry's wife.

I am sure Edward thought that his mother was different and a true wife to Henry, and the picture probably justified that belief.
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  #484  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
That may be so...but didn't Henry have a family picture painted during his lifetime (when Catherine Parr was his wife) and Jane was painted as Henry's wife.

I am sure Edward thought that his mother was different and a true wife to Henry, and the picture probably justified that belief.
Yes, Henry did have a family portrait painted with Jane as his wife. He himself said that Jane was his "true wife".. but only because she provided him with a male heir.. and there is no doubt he felt remorse over her death in giving him that son.

But Henry was also a man driven by his passions.

Catherine of Aragon was his first love, and aside from the occasional fling, he was a true husband to her. When Anne came along, she became his greatest passion. That fact cannot be disputed, since it took him seven years to fully have her.

I have no doubt that he felt love for Jane, and probably a sense of relief after his turbulent Boleyn relationship. She was the quiet and calm one.. and the one that gave him Edward.

There was no passion for Anne of Cleves, although he did grow fond of her and they remained friends for life. Kathryn Howard was his fantasy.. young and beautiful.. he was reportedly devistated when he learned of her infidelity. And Katherine Parr.. well, she was his comfort and his nurse-maid in his final years.

His marriages to Cleves and Howard were made in hopes of producing another son and securing the succession, but his last marriage was not expected to produce any children (although he and his court held vain hope that it would) because Katherine Parr had never been pregnant in her previous marriages.

From the time of Jane's death, Henry had always intended to be buried with her.. which is why he had her interred at Windsor in the first place. But had any of his later wives produced a son as well, I'm sure that today we would also see her buried at Windsor with Henry and Jane.

I'm not saying he didn't love Jane.. I'm only saying that each of his wives, apart from Anne of Cleves, represented a different facet of his life. To say that Jane was loved above the others would be a mistake.. each of his loves was different and each relationship was entered for different reasons.

As far as Edward goes, he was only nine when his father died. Henry made his burial wishes known long before then. He chose to be buried at Windsor, and his wishes were carried out.. and no doubt this honored the Protector's family.. but then, Henry trusted the Seymours to care for Edward after his death.
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  #485  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:31 PM
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If he only knew how the Seymours were going to mess it up...he might have had other thoughts...but that is the subject of another thread (or two or three)
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  #486  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
I'm not saying he didn't love Jane.. I'm only saying that each of his wives, apart from Anne of Cleves, represented a different facet of his life. To say that Jane was loved above the others would be a mistake.. each of his loves was different and each relationship was entered for different reasons.
Yes, This above statement is correct. But couldn't have King Henry VIII been buried by himself?

He did have different relationships with each of his six wives, but I think Jane Seymour was the closest in what a wife should be in King Henry's eyes. And for this Queen Jane and only Jane had the honor to be buried next to him.

Where are his other wives buried? Are they buried alone or does Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth 1 with their mothers?
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  #487  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:00 PM
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Mary and Elizabeth are buried at Westminster Abbey.

Catherine of Aragon was buried as Princess of Wales at Peterborough Cathederal...Henry didnt' attend and didn't allow Mary to attend. Queen Mary (formerly May of Teck) had something added to the tombstone acknowledging that Catherine was Queen of England. I am really surprised that Mary didn't do that while she was Queen as she did a lot to things to restore the legtimacy of her parents marriage.

Anne Bolyen and Catherine Howard were buried at Chapel Royal of St. Peter ad Vincula in the Tower of London.

Anne of Cleves was buried at Westminister Abbey and Catherine Parr was buried at Sudley Chapel.
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  #488  
Old 12-29-2010, 07:26 PM
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Zonk, I read something somewhere that said that Anne Bolyen's remains were mixed in with others. Did I get that correct?
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  #489  
Old 12-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
But couldn't have King Henry VIII been buried by himself?
He could have been buried alone, but that was never his intention. He intended to be buried with his Queen, as was the custom of his time.

I believe he always intended his final resting place to be in St. George's Chapel at Windsor. In fact, Henry had an oriel window installed in the chapel in honor of Catherine of Aragon.. I imagine in the early years of their marriage, when he intended that they would rest together.

That window is still in St. George's Chapel today.

From 1509 to circa 1526, Catherine was everything Henry thought a wife should be.. that is, until Anne Boleyn came on the scene.

Catherine of Aragon was infinitely more qualified to be Queen than his other wives, of course.. and had she or Anne produced the desired male heir, there would never have been a Queen Jane.

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Zonk, I read something somewhere that said that Anne Bolyen's remains were mixed in with others. Did I get that correct?
I don't believe this is true. My understanding is that her remains were placed in an empty arrow chest after her execution, and buried in an unmarked grave in the Chapel of St. Peter ad Vincula.

The remains were identified in Queen Victoria's time, when the chapel was being renovated, and her resting place was finally marked in the marble floor, where it is seen today.
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  #490  
Old 12-30-2010, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
He could have been buried alone, but that was never his intention. He intended to be buried with his Queen, as was the custom of his time.

Catherine of Aragon was infinitely more qualified to be Queen than his other wives, of course.. and had she or Anne produced the desired male heir, there would never have been a Queen Jane.
Yes the above statements are true. But again Queen Jane gave him is male Tudor heir. So to King Henry VII, she was him idealized wife of the six he had. I guess we have to disagree to agree HM Queen Catherine. I really believe Queen Catherine of Aragon was and is his true wife. And if King Henry had a crystal ball and could see the future, he would have stayed with Catherine. But Queen Jane died to give him a son and so, in my opinion, became idolized in King Henry's mind.
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  #491  
Old 12-30-2010, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post

I don't believe this is true. My understanding is that her remains were placed in an empty arrow chest after her execution, and buried in an unmarked grave in the Chapel of St. Peter ad Vincula.

The remains were identified in Queen Victoria's time, when the chapel was being renovated, and her resting place was finally marked in the marble floor, where it is seen today.
I read that as well, however, I read that the bones were disturbed and mixed in with others. Half a sec. I need to figure out where I read that tidbit of info. so I have it correct.
Here's a site I found, it isn't the site I cited (no pun intended! ) however it contains the same information and might prove to be useful to others studying this subject.
http://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/wh...n-buried/4891/
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  #492  
Old 12-30-2010, 09:25 PM
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Russo my dear,

Thanks for providing the link to this website. Like you, I had heard or read something about her bones being mixed up but could not recall where or when; however, I never heard about these rumors that her body was removed from the chapel in the tower and buried elsewhere. Fascinating.
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  #493  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:17 PM
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[Ah! But that is all they are: Rumors. However, wouldn't it be fascinating if they dug up the bones and did DNA on them? Could they find a decendant of the Boleyn's that would match?
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  #494  
Old 12-31-2010, 05:50 PM
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Ah! But that is all they are: Rumors. However, wouldn't it be fascinating if they dug up the bones and did DNA on them? Could they find a decendant of the Boleyn's that would match?
Through mitochondrial DNA, I'm sure they could find Boleyn descendants.

It doesn't even have to be Anne's bones.. they could extract DNA from her mother, Elizabeth Howard, or from Mary Boleyn - if her burial site is ever located.

As a direct descendant of Mary, I would have no problem at all exhuming my great great grandfather to get DNA for testing.

And the BRF would have to look no further than Catherine Middleton. She and I are 13th cousins.. both descended from Catherine Carey and Francis Knollys. My ancestress was Anne Knollys. Catherine's ancestress is Elizabeth Knollys.

It would be amazing!

And mtDNA would confirm once and for all whether Mary's descendants were also descendants of Henry VIII..
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  #495  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:03 AM
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Researchers suggest rare blood disorder was responsible for Henry VIII's rapid decline and failure to father more children | Mail Online
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  #496  
Old 03-10-2011, 12:30 PM
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I feel the time has come to say something in support of Anne Bolyn. I believe her to have been no more than a pawn in the game of her ambitious, avaricious family The results of their plans to insinuate daughter Mary into the Kings' affections had been shortlived and they determined to try again with Anne. Defying a parent in those days could result in the recalcitrant child being beaten or starved into submission, or even incarcerated in a convent. I don't believe Ann ever truly loved Henry but once he had set his sights on her she had very little room for manoeuvre, and I think she used the six years of his courtship of her to challenge and taunt him about what he couldn't do regarding their relationship. I think she was playing for time and it backfired on her. Who could blame her for feeling that if she must go through with this thing, which she may have seen as abhorant,she would do it on her own terms. She may have felt betrayed by her family who were using her for their own ends. She may have felt anger and resentment at having been deprived of Harry Percy. She may even have hoped for the opportunity to wreak revenge on Wolesly for splitting them up and this she acheived quite splendidly. I think that once she discovered that she could play the power game she felt strong, even omnipotent-she was never going to be a docile, biddable woman and her feistiness was probably one of the qualities about her which turned Henry on. She had put obstacle after obstacle in the way of their union and one by one Henry had eradicated them. I think that in the end she capitulated because there was nothing else she could do. It's possible that she may have grown to love him at some point but her behaviour towards him doesn't seem that of a woman who is IN love and I imagine that within a few months of their marriage she had already experienced the best of any love Henry had felt for her. She made a brave attempt at playing a dangerous game with a powerful man, but it would be the daughter who resulted from their union who would play the game and win. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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  #497  
Old 03-22-2011, 03:06 PM
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Henry Viii had many wives but catherine he loved when young then no love at all, Anne boelyn seduced him to love her?Jane Seymour did he love her? IDK but she gave birth to a boy and is buried next to him because she to him was his "true wife", catherine parr, Catherine howard, Anne of cleves.. Not so famous wives of Henry .
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  #498  
Old 03-22-2011, 04:33 PM
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I just read the issue of Royalty magazine that commenorates the Engagement of Prince William and Catherine Middleton and there's an interesting little tidbit in that issue regarding Catherine of Aragon.

Apparently, researchers have found letters sent by Pope Julius II to the Prince of Wales (Whether this is Arthur or Henry isn't clear) to let his concerns about the religious fervour of Princess of Wales and her health. Apparently, Catherine was going overboard, in his eyes, when it came to her fasting ritiuals. To the point she was ignoring his orders when it came to not going through w/fasts so often.

Here's the *really* interesting thing...

They're wondering if Catherine was fasting so often and not eating as well as she should have eating due to the restraints of whatever fasting ritual she was following at the time...Could this actually have been Anorexia/Bulimia and *this* was the real cause of the fertitlity problems Catherine and Henry had? It makes sense when you think of it. If Catherine wasn't eating due to doing a fast, *and* she was pregnant, the baby wouldn't be getting that vital nutrition it needed and in turn...A still born baby.

I read that last night and my Dad turned to me when I let out a "Oh my GOSH!!!" after I'd read that wondering if I hadn't lost it. After I had him read the little tidbit article, he looked at me w/that same realization of shock and says to me, "That could explain everything right there!!"

It could too. Just putting that out there for discussion.
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  #499  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 View Post

Apparently, researchers have found letters sent by Pope Julius II to the Prince of Wales (Whether this is Arthur or Henry isn't clear) to let his concerns about the religious fervour of Princess of Wales and her health. Apparently, Catherine was going overboard, in his eyes, when it came to her fasting ritiuals. To the point she was ignoring his orders when it came to not going through w/fasts so often.

Here's the *really* interesting thing...

They're wondering if Catherine was fasting so often and not eating as well as she should have eating due to the restraints of whatever fasting ritual she was following at the time...Could this actually have been Anorexia/Bulimia and *this* was the real cause of the fertitlity problems Catherine and Henry had? It makes sense when you think of it. If Catherine wasn't eating due to doing a fast, *and* she was pregnant, the baby wouldn't be getting that vital nutrition it needed and in turn...A still born baby.
Tigger,

I think an earlier thread also touched on this subject as a way to explain Katherine's problems with producing healthy babies. You might check back on this thread.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:09 PM
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Just watched a 60 Minutes segment about the Vatican Library and they showed one of the seventeen love letters written by Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn. When asked how the Vatican came to possess these letters, the priest did not know but hazarded a guess that a predecessor priest from long ago may have taken the letters to use at a trial or proceeding regarding Henry's wish to divorce Katherine. Has anyone read about how the Vatican came to obtain these letters?
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