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  #341  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Lettice Knollys was a Carey who definitely wasn´t favoured by Queen Elizabeth II, well she wasn´t after she married in secret one of the Queen´s favourites the very handsome Walter Devereaux, the handsome Earl of Essex, who later on met a sticky end.
It was her 2nd husband, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leiceter, who was the great favorite of Queen Elizabeth. Lettice's secret marriage to him in 1578 did indeed get her banished from court. And Elizabeth never forgave either of them.

By this time, of course, Catherine Carey, Lady Knollys, had been dead for several years, having died in 1569.
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  #342  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ella Kay View Post
So here's an interesting question, then: was Bessie Blount married when Henry FitzRoy was born? If not, perhaps Henry was only willing to acknowledge illegitimate children when doing so would not embarrass the man who was legally known to be the father of the child -- i.e., when the mistress was not married?
Bessie Blount was not married at the time of her affair with Henry VIII, as was previously stated.

Her son, Henry FitzRoy, was born 15 June 1519, and she continued her affair with the King until 1522, when she married her 1st husband. Her marriage to Gilbert Tailboys was said to have been arranged by the King.

Gilbert was created 1st Baron Tailboys of Kyme in 1529, several years after his step-son was created Duke of Richmond and Somerset. Apparently, he and Bessie remained in favor with the King after their marriage.

Gilbert and Bessie also had several children together. They were Elizabeth, George and Robert Tailboys.

Both of their sons died without issue, and Elizabeth eventually inherited the Barony. She was married to Ambrose Dudley, Earl of Warwick, who was Baron Tailboys in her right until her death in 1560. They had no children and the peerage became extinct on her death.

After Gilbert Tailboys died in 1530, Bessie Blount married Edward Clinton, 1st Earl of Lincoln, in 1534. They had 3 daughters together; Bridget, Katherine, and Margaret Clinton, who all survived to adulthood.

Katherine Clinton was Lady Borough of Gainsborough, and Margaret Clinton was Lady Willoughby of Parham.
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  #343  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Marsel77 View Post
Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was descended from Catherine Carey through her great-grandmother, Anne Caroline Salisbury, which makes Queen Elizabeth II the first Monarch with Henry VIII's blood (if Catherine was indeed Henry's daughter).
I had not heard that Anne Caroline Salisbury was a descendant of Catherine Carey. Do you have this ancestral line? Or do you know which of Catherine's children she was descended from?
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  #344  
Old 06-09-2009, 04:30 PM
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I believe Anne Salisbury's ancestor was Helena Savage (born West), one of the daughters of Anne Knollys and Thomas West. Anne Knollys was Catherine's daughter.

I have read this some 2-3 years ago and remembered it because I was studying the Tudors at the time. I am not certain what book(s) that was in (although I am sure it was a book, not an internet article), however if you are interested, I will try to find the source.
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  #345  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:07 PM
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If you could find the source, that would be terrific. I have enabled private email on this forum, so you can send it to me if you find it. If not, then its ok.. just knowing the names is a great help for further research.

I'm very interested in this because this is my West line. I know that Helena West was born 15 Dec 1587 and that she married William Savage circa 1607, but I have no children listed for them.

Thanks for the information!
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  #346  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:14 PM
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My pleasure.
I will do my best to find the source; it has to be either in one of my books about the Tudors, or in the ones about Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

Another thing I remember, which may be of some help to you, is that Anne Salisbury was descendant from Helena and William Savage's second daughter (unfortunately, I don't remember the name), so they had at least two children.
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  #347  
Old 06-09-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Lettice Knollys was a Carey who definitely wasn´t favoured by Queen Elizabeth II, well she wasn´t after she married in secret one of the Queen´s favourites the very handsome Walter Devereaux, the handsome Earl of Essex, who later on met a sticky end.
Yes, my best friend as a child's mother was a Devereaux, who had the whole family tree memorized, basically. Definately a descendant of Lettice and Walter Devereaux
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  #348  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:29 AM
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Vatican sells facsimiles of Henry VIII letter that led to schism with Rome - Telegraph
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  #349  
Old 07-02-2009, 03:28 AM
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Columbine Hall - History

Columbine Hall where Robert Carey lived, (possible) grandchild of Henry VIII and Mary Boleyn.

I loved it there, the pictures on the website do not do it justice (mine are much better), the garden in the 17th century manner with the moat, the house which has been restored in muted colours (has featured in the magazine World of Interiors).

Robert Carey, 1st Earl of Monmouth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #350  
Old 07-07-2009, 05:23 AM
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Welt.de has a report on its website about Henry VIII.

König und Kraft- protz - WELT am SONNTAG - WELT ONLINE

And Rheinische Post has a report about Anna von Kleve.

http://www.rp-online.de/public/artic...n-England.html
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  #351  
Old 08-11-2009, 06:31 AM
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Wow!
I am blown away with all the information and opinions at hand!
I love Royal History; with Henry VIII & Charles II (and those inbetween my fav's).
Does anyone know how long Katharine & Arthur were married?
& why her name is sometimes spelt with a C
- loving the posts!

Hello all currently on-line.
As I'm a "newbie" I would like some help please.
How do I retrieve the "reply"'s - when I see a number of replies beside my last post I click on them and I get names not answers?
Is there a set of instructions I can read?
Thanking you in anticipation...
Shari-aree

Wow Avalon really knows Royal History.
Can you please tell me how long Arthur & Katharine were married.
Ta!
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  #352  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:58 AM
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Welcome to the forum, shari-aree.
I'm not avalon but I'll be delighted to answer your question.

Arthur and Catherine's marriage was arranged when both were two years old (as part of the Treaty of Medina del Campo).
They were married by proxy in 1499 (both were 14 at the time).
Their actual marriage took place in November of 1501 (Arthur was 15, Catherine - 16) at St. Paul's Cathedral.
Arthur died in April 1502.

If one counts their marriage from May 1499 (the day of their marriage by proxy), then they were married for 2 years and 11 months.
If we starts the count from the date of their actual marriage (which took place days after they had met each other for the first time), then their marriage lasted only 4 months 15 days.
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  #353  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:45 PM
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Exclamation Mary Boleyn

Need some help here - how many children did Mary Boleyn have and by whom?
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  #354  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Meg View Post
Need some help here - how many children did Mary Boleyn have and by whom?
Her marriage to Sir William Carey (1495 – 22 June 1528) resulted in the birth of two children (however there were rumours that King Henry VIII was the biological father):
  • Catherine Carey (1524 – 15 January 1568). Rumoured to have been the child of King Henry VIII. Maid-of-Honour to Anne of Cleves and Catherine Howard. She married a Puritan, Sir Francis Knollys, Knight of the Garter. She was later Chief Lady of the Bedchamber to her cousin, Elizabeth I. One of her daughters, Lettice Knollys, became the second wife of Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, the favourite of Elizabeth I.
  • Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon (4 March 1526 – 23 July 1596). Also rumoured to have been the child of Henry VIII. He was ennobled by Queen Elizabeth I just after her coronation and later made a Knight of the Garter. When he was dying, Elizabeth offered Henry the Boleyn family title of Earl of Ormond, which he had long sought, but he declined. He was married to Anne Morgan.
Mary's marriage to Sir William Stafford (d. 5 May 1556) resulted in the birth of two children:
  • Anne (? - ?), probably named in honour of Mary's sister, Queen Anne Boleyn.
  • Edward (1535 - 1545).
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  #355  
Old 02-23-2010, 05:32 PM
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Question New Anne Boleyn Claim.. True?

New Scandal? What is this all about?

Poem backs claims Anne Boleyn had five lovers... one her brother | Mail Online

The Daily Mail isn't really that credited as a news source is it? I remember it as being kind of inaccurate and gossip like.

I really think this is another sad attempt to show how "horrible" Anne Boleyn truly was. It was so black and white with her. People either hated her or loved her. I thought those who testified were threatened and some tortured to admit certain things that were not true in her trial. Also, this might be incorrect because I watch the series "The Tudors" - but soon before her demise.. didn't she publicly insult the French or was that just a fictional scene made for the tv series?
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  #356  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:27 PM
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This is nuts. For her ladies in waiting to "look the other way" would have been treason enough, putting them in severe danger. Anne was rarely alone after she became Queen.
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  #357  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:17 PM
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You do need to consider the sources. Take the Daily Mail with a grain of salt.....sometimes they do provide accurate information and other times they don't.

In regards to the Tudors, I watched it the first season and had no problem getting rid of Showtime because of the historical inaccuracies. This is the same show that merged two of Henry's sisters (Mary and Margaret) into one person (I believe it was just Margaret)!

I do believe that they men confessed under torture. Anne was guility of many things (being a man stealer, not a nice person, and a horrible stepmother) but I think a lot of the cheating charges were false. Point blank...Henry wanted a son and her wanted her gone. He wanted a clean slate. And getting rid of Anne was cleaning the slate. He didn't care how she left.
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  #358  
Old 02-24-2010, 01:12 AM
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That's what I though - at least from what I remember when I was over there - it was a gossip column newspaper. Yes, the show on Showtime. It has MANY inaccuracies, that I am annoyed with, yes. They don't take enough time to thoroughly explain things, they merged sisters, yes. They have left out sooooo much - for example Margaret and Charles Brandon never had children and she dies of consumption.

I agree with Henry wanted her gone. I wrote in another thread how I found it ironic that he tried so hard to secure HIS line, so that the Tudor Dynasty may flourish. Since women were not considered to be fit rulers he didn't really prepare his daughters to be Queen. He counted on Edward to carry on the line, but his sudden death brought Mary to the throne. Mary and Elizabeth - I think were so scarred from their upbringing that marriage and children were in a way scary to them. Mary was so afraid that she would never marry - then Elizabeth never married and had no children - which in her instance was prob a good thing. She was WAY too stubborn and strong willed, plus she was prob. scared of childbirth. Anyway, like I was trying to say before I got off on a tangent - While Henry is so obsessed trying to secure his legacy with a son to carry the Tudor name, his line ends with a daughter, Elizabeth - the daughter of the supposed "whore" - then only to be picked up by his older sister's child and great-grandchild who becomes ruler of Scotland and England. Haha! What a sore loser.
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  #359  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:09 PM
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And leave she did~minus a head.
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  #360  
Old 02-24-2010, 04:44 PM
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I hardly think a "poem" may be considered proof positive that Anne had affairs with several men, including her brother. Popular ditties of the day often referenced famous people and made fun of them. To me, the poem may have been the public's comment on the charges against Anne.

I read in a book on Henry VIII that a man from Scotland wrote to Queen Elizabeth I and said that at the time of Anne's execution, he talked with Cromwell or Cranmer who said that Anne was innocent. Anne did not make an appeal to the King (this "written appeal" was found to be a forgery) but only asked to be "shriven" of her sins and told the confessor that she was innocent. This person assumed, and probably rightly so, that one facing imminent death would be truthful in confessing her sins and misdeeds.
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