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  #1061  
Old 03-16-2019, 11:48 PM
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This is fascinating stuff, especially showing a varied and multicultural English population. And also the archers becoming sailors; multi-tasking, retired from the army of the time or maybe there on board ship to repel enemy boarders?
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  #1062  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This is fascinating stuff, especially showing a varied and multicultural English population. And also the archers becoming sailors; multi-tasking, retired from the army of the time or maybe there on board ship to repel enemy boarders?
Archers have been common on war ships since ancient times. The Greeks and Romans would have them on board. There are naval records of battles, like Henry V, with archers as well. By the time of the battle of the Spanish armada, during the reign of Elizabeth, archers were declining in naval battle and land. They were often on the upper deck, and yes were useful in taking out enemies in battle that came on board.
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  #1063  
Old 03-30-2019, 12:16 AM
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Catherine of Aragon cont..

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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Avalon, sorry to insist again and but I read in a quite reliable book about the history of Church law that pope Julius II. did not send a proper dispensation because the French had bribed him in order to make sure the marriage between Henry (later Henry VIII.) and Catherine of Aragon would not be valid. When king Henry VII., Catherine's father in law, realized that, he did not allow his son Henry (later Henry VIII.) to marry Catherine out of the fear that God might be against the marriage.

When Henry VIII. became king aged 18, he married Catherine. After numerous stillborn children with only a girl, Mary Tudor, as surviving child, Henry VIII. became superstitious and asked for an annulment. Normally this would have been granted without any problems. But there was the problem with German emperor Charles V., Catherine's nephew through his mother, Joana of Aragon and Castile the heir of Spain and through his father Philipp of Habsburg's inheritance the most powerful lord in Germany and thus elected Holy Roman emperor . Charles V. had marched into Rome and taken the successor of Julius II, pope Clemens VII. prisoner and forced him to reject Henry's request.

So according to this rather scientific book about Church law, Henry VIII. was right to feel that spiritually his marriage was invalid (according to Catholic law) and that Julius II. had tricked them. The emperor insisted on the other hand that there had been no reason for a dispensation in the first place as the marriage between Catherine and prince Arthur had not been consumated according to Catherine. Thus it hadn't been valid and there had been no need for a dispensation for the new marriage. Henry at first had believed that, too (thus he was very slow in enforcing the issue) but when he realized that there wouldn't be an heir he spiritually started believing in the invalidity of his marriage- he saw their childlessness as sign of God according to the words in the bible, that a marriage between a man and his brother's wife should remain childless. Catherine argued that they had a child - Mary - but she could not shake Henry's belief that God had sent a sign to him. So he proceeded.

When he could not get justice from the Vatican due to the emperor's insistence on the marriage, he split from Rome but did not change the system of the church. That was done during the minority of his son Edward as king by Edward's guardians who favoured the reformation.

Sorry to go into details but I think it's interesting in view of the discussion about divorces and the Church of England that Henry VIII. never wanted a divorce as he was a spiritual man and believed in God. If he had accepted divorce, maybe Anna Boleyn and her cousine Catherine Howard had lived a little bit longer....
HOWEVER! King Henry VII briefly considered marrying Catherine himself, so he must not have been terribly concerned about God being against her marrying a relative of her former husband, Prince Arthur! I think the consciences of these monarchs were flexible things, not that they were insincere, but I think that they measured their consciences against political gain quite often, and would choose the worldly benefits over religious propriety at times. Henry VIII was certainly conflicted in this way several times during his life with regard to his marriages. I think he honestly believed that God was disallowing him to produce a son, but I don't think he had a rock solid understanding as to why. He convinced himself that it was due to his marriage to Catherine (though he knew she had been a virgin on their wedding night) in part because he was desperate for an heir and in part because he wanted Anne. By that time, his conviction that God was displeased was only a side issue, in my opinion, though he certainly continued to maintain that it was true. Very complex, these men of power!
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  #1064  
Old 04-04-2019, 07:24 PM
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When he was still Prince Henry, he was steered toward a church career. How much theology did he study?
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  #1065  
Old 04-29-2019, 03:14 PM
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When he was still Prince Henry, he was steered toward a church career. How much theology did he study?
Records show he was given a very broad education, which included the study of theology and philosophy. I would think he was well educated on Catholic theology as he wrote Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defense of the Seven Sacraments, possibly with Thomas More) and was given the title "Defender of the Faith".
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  #1066  
Old 04-29-2019, 03:46 PM
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His paternal grandmother the Countess of Richmond and Derby was a pretty devout lady and possibly had an early influence on religiosity.
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  #1067  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:08 PM
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His paternal grandmother the Countess of Richmond and Derby was a pretty devout lady and possibly had an early influence on religiosity.
I love calling her "My Lady, The King's Mother"! :)


She was also very well educated, for a woman of her day, and endowed colleges, hospitals. She endowed several colleges (including Christ College and St. John's at Cambridge), translated works into English and was known for her generosity. She even left a substantial sum in her will to various educational institutions that she supported.


Interestingly, many of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation in England attended St. John's--Asham, Cecil, and Cheke.
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  #1068  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:13 PM
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Interestingly, many of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation in England attended St. John's--Asham, Cecil, and Cheke.
Something that would have caused My Lady The Kings mother to self combust
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  #1069  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:03 PM
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Something that would have caused My Lady The Kings mother to self combust
Exactly my thoughts.
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  #1070  
Old 05-27-2019, 01:43 PM
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Was Katherine of Aragon Henry's greatest queen?

She along with with Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr were my favourite of his 6 wives .

https://www.historyextra.com/period/...he-like-ruler/
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  #1071  
Old 05-27-2019, 03:27 PM
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An Ard Ri, Catherine of Aragon is by far my favorite of the six wives and the one I feel the most admiration for. A noble, intelligent, courageous woman who might have benefited from being a little LESS principled.

I admire Anne Boleyn's courage and dignity. Particularly at the end when it all went horribly wrong...but her behavior on her ascent and as queen was just too spiteful, too venal for whole hearted admiration.

Catherine Howard has my pity. I recently completed Gareth Russell's "Young, Damned and Fair". Yes she was silly, not very bright and a little conceited. But she was very young and lacked adequate guidance for most of her brief life.

She did not deserve her fate.
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  #1072  
Old 05-27-2019, 03:35 PM
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Katherine of Aragon was also his longest serving queen (11 June 1509 – 23 May 1533) just under 24 years.
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  #1073  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:30 PM
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I only knew Bessie Blount and Mary Boleyn names,but there were more.

Henry VIII’s mistresses

https://www.historyextra.com/period/...ng-sleep-with/
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  #1074  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:36 PM
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Just eleven days after the execution of Queen Anne Boleyn, King Henry VIII married Jane Seymour on May 30, 1536.
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  #1075  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:52 PM
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Did the will of King Henry VIII debar the English throne from going to a foreigner?
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