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  #1061  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
She declared herself to be Queen because she was the Queen. Just because Harry got dissident clergy to declare him divorced does not mean he was actually divorced. According to his own Church (before he founded the new one) he was not divorced nor did he receive a decree of nullity and therefore was not free to marry. When you look at it from that perspective (and that would of been Catherines) she was still his lawful wife and the Queen.



LaRae
Exactly. Catherine believed she was Henry's wife in the eyes of God. Not calling herself Queen would be a lie, something she refused to do, as a woman with strong religious convictions.
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  #1062  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:55 PM
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Instead of getting dressed up and throwing a party as she did when Catherine's death was announced, Anne should have fled the country.

With Catherine out of the way, Henry was no longer in the position of having two living ex-wives...he could get rid of Anne as Lucy63 pointed out.

Indeed, Anne miscarried a son on the day of Catherine's funeral and was executed less than 5 months later.

It almost seems karmic.
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  #1063  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:38 PM
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Catherine may have still been queen in Rome, and even in heaven but as David Starkey said, unfortunately for her, she was living in England.

Henry needed absolutely irrefutable proof of the worst possible misdeeds to rid himself of Anne, as he never wanted to admit mistakes. So Cromwell made it happen, imo. Then no one could blame him, and he would even get sympathy (in his mind.) Wonder what he would have come up with Jane had given birth to a girl and then no more children...
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  #1064  
Old 12-26-2018, 06:28 PM
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Anne of Cleves's coronation as queen had been set for February 1540. King Henry VIII called it off without giving a reason. Was he not required to give a reason?
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  #1065  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Anne of Cleves's coronation as queen had been set for February 1540. King Henry VIII called it off without giving a reason. Was he not required to give a reason?
Why would he be required to give a reason, He was king....
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  #1066  
Old 12-29-2018, 11:08 PM
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I read “Young, Damned and Fair” by Gareth Russell this week, a full bio on Catherine Howard. She was a silly girl, but also a bit calculating there at the end, when she told Cranmer that Dereham had raped her all those times. The author does not buy into Catherine as a victim of sexual abuse in her youth, partly I think because her age at the time was not far off marrying age for women then, so it is not really comparable. Also, with Culpepper she seemed to go after him as much as vice versa. Still...if anything, besides not being too smart, she sure was not well advised or well handled by her trove of relations. All she needed to do was play the good wife for a few years...in any case, less than ten at most, though it would have turned out to be even sooner, and she would have been rewarded as Katherine Parr was as far as estates, pensions, freedom, etc. and she still would have been barely 25 or so.

But what a tragedy it all was. The worst part (besides being executed) is that she had to wait around for death for 13 weeks, while Anne had less than 3 weeks, from start to finish.
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  #1067  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy63 View Post
I read “Young, Damned and Fair” by Gareth Russell this week, a full bio on Catherine Howard. She was a silly girl, but also a bit calculating there at the end, when she told Cranmer that Dereham had raped her all those times. The author does not buy into Catherine as a victim of sexual abuse in her youth, partly I think because her age at the time was not far off marrying age for women then, so it is not really comparable. Also, with Culpepper she seemed to go after him as much as vice versa. Still...if anything, besides not being too smart, she sure was not well advised or well handled by her trove of relations. All she needed to do was play the good wife for a few years...in any case, less than ten at most, though it would have turned out to be even sooner, and she would have been rewarded as Katherine Parr was as far as estates, pensions, freedom, etc. and she still would have been barely 25 or so.

But what a tragedy it all was. The worst part (besides being executed) is that she had to wait around for death for 13 weeks, while Anne had less than 3 weeks, from start to finish.
She was extremely stupid, and had indeed been badly trained (or rather neglected) by her relatives. but her behaviour was her own, not her relatives. She should have known that an affair with one of H's favoured young courtiers was NOT ON. True that if she had stayed faithful and well behaved for a few years, she would have been a wealthy widowed queen and could probably have married someone she really loved or at least a younger more compatible partner...
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  #1068  
Old 12-30-2018, 09:14 AM
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The Tombs/Plaques of Henry's wives

Catherine of Aragon in Peterborough Cathedral

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._of_Aragon.JPG

Plaque of Anne Boleyn at Church of Saint Peter ad Vincula

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...nne_Boleyn.jpg

Jane Seymour,St George's Chapel in Windsor

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombe_...Henry_VIII.jpg

Anne of Cleves in Westminster Abbey

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClDxY1mWEAA4D03.jpg

Catherine Howards plaque,Church of Saint Peter ad Vincula

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombe_...d%27s_Tomb.jpg


The tomb of Catherine Parr, St Mary's Chapel in Sudeley Castle.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...%285058%29.jpg
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