Henry VIII (1491-1547) and Wives

[An Ard Ri]

She very nearly ended up on the block too!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Private marriage of Anne Boleyn and King Henry VIII
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-pr...-and-king-henry-viii-of-england-25144171.html

King Henry VIII dismissed Cardinal Wolsey after the Cardinal failed to secure Henry's divorce from Catherine of Aragon.
http://www.alamy.com/king-henry-vii...-from-catherine-of-aragon-image182144830.html

Seven surprising facts about Anne of Cleves
http://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com/2013/05/seven-surprising-facts-about-anne-of.html

Catherine of Aragon served as regent for her husband when Henry VIII was in France for six months in 1513. During that time, the English won the Battle of Flodden, Catherine took an active part in the planning.

 

[Gawin]

She very nearly ended up on the block too!

She knew about Catherine's "past" but said nothing. Was it ambition or did her stepson the Duke of Norfolk tell her to keep her mouth shut?

 

[Lucy63]

She knew about Catherine's "past" but said nothing. Was it ambition or did her stepson the Duke of Norfolk tell her to keep her mouth shut?

Both, maybe? Or she was left out the loop until it was too late?

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Well, she is quoted to have said she knew how not to get pregnant while still “meddling” with men, lol....

But who knows...we never will.

I know what she said which is why I added it to my question.
In one of the Keith M dramas from the 70s they had Catherine sleeping with Culpeper so she could get pregnant.

Has anyone seen that interpretation of the wives? It actually portrays 90% of the people involved sympathetically.

 

[Lucy63]

I know what she said which is why I added it to my question.
In one of the Keith M dramas from the 70s they had Catherine sleeping with Culpeper so she could get pregnant.

Has anyone seen that interpretation of the wives? It actually portrays 90% of the people involved sympathetically.

I wish...can’t find that one anywhere, supposed to be one of the best. Was searching for it tonight, in fact. Watched a bad Mary of Scots instead, 2013 Swiss version, partly subtitled French. Did not care for at all, but also dislike the 1971 one lol. Movie folks want to make her story romantic lol. Sorry for off topic.

In one of my various books, it was mentioned that Owen Tudor was alternately listed as Owen Meredith in some court records...suggested by author that Meredith might have been used rather than Tudor for the dynasty to be...

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I wish...can’t find that one anywhere, supposed to be one of the best. Was searching for it tonight, in fact. Watched a bad Mary of Scots instead, 2013 Swiss version, partly subtitled French. Did not care for at all, but also dislike the 1971 one lol. Movie folks want to make her story romantic lol. Sorry for off topic.

I have the 1971 BBC production of The Six Wives of Henry VIII...on both VHS and DVD!! I watched it as a child and became hooked out of my mind on Tudor history forever afterward. For that entire summer I had a crush on Keith Michell, who for me will always be THE definitive Henry.


I ordered the VHS set directly from Britain and paid a fortune for it. I wish I had waited and purchased it on Amazon years later because it was a fraction of the cost.

 

[Zonk]

Let's think about this...if it was well known that Catherine Howard had a sexual past...would that have discounted her potential marriage suitors (and I am not just talking about Henry). Was a virgin bride a big plus back than? And was it a true requirement for a royal bride?

And on the other side..if Henry had known about Catherine's past do you think he would have done a hard pass? I know one of the things he liked and spoke of proudly was that she was untouched.

 

[Lucy63]

I have the 1971 BBC production of The Six Wives of Henry VIII...on both VHS and DVD!! I watched it as a child and became hooked out of my mind on Tudor history forever afterward. For that entire summer I had a crush on Keith Michell, who for me will always be THE definitive Henry.


I ordered the VHS set directly from Britain and paid a fortune for it. I wish I had waited and purchased it on Amazon years later because it was a fraction of the cost.

I no longer own a dvd player or such. So many things still not available online surprises me, as I would pay to watch several unfindable shows like this. I thought by now one of the many streaming services would have picked these up.

Let's think about this...if it was well known that Catherine Howard had a sexual past...would that have discounted her potential marriage suitors (and I am not just talking about Henry). Was a virgin bride a big plus back than? And was it a true requirement for a royal bride?

And on the other side..if Henry had known about Catherine's past do you think he would have done a hard pass? I know one of the things he liked and spoke of proudly was that she was untouched.

If her history was generally known...maybe not even the ambitious Howards would have dared put her at court. I think their whole plan was for her to entice Henry and they were counting on keeping her antics known to the few family members...forgetting about the other ladies in the dorm, and the fellows. Some other lady would have caught Henry's eye, as he was on the prowl, and like so much else in history, all would have been different. Not drastically, perhaps, as he may have been impotent by that time and had all the kids he would ever have.

I don’t know if female virginity in general was as crucial as faithfulness after marriage at least until male heirs were in place, for most men. Royals may have differed.

 

[Zonk]

I am going to look for that on amazon/ebay Moonmaiden..I don't think I have seen it. I still have The King and Mrs. Simpson on Tape! Gosh I still have a VCR/DVD combo in storage. I am NOT getting rid of that just for the simple fact that some shows/movies have never been converted over (from VHS to DVD to Blue Ray for example) or are available on Social Media.

I remember having a conversation with my sister about a DVD I was getting read to buy...she was like...Zonk....you are still buying DVD's and I am living in the cloud. And I replied but yes, what do you do when you want to watch something and Netflix (or your cloud) decided to remove it that month...you pull out your DVD.

ETA: Okay...looks like the DVD is like 50 bucks! On the wish list...

 

[Lucy63]

I am going to look for that on amazon/ebay Moonmaiden..I don't think I have seen it. I still have The King and Mrs. Simpson on Tape! Gosh I still have a VCR/DVD combo in storage. I am NOT getting rid of that just for the simple fact that some shows/movies have never been converted over (from VHS to DVD to Blue Ray for example) or are available on Social Media.

I remember having a conversation with my sister about a DVD I was getting read to buy...she was like...Zonk....you are still buying DVD's and I am living in the cloud. And I replied but yes, what do you do when you want to watch something and Netflix (or your cloud) decided to remove it that month...you pull out your DVD.

ETA: Okay...looks like the DVD is like 50 bucks! On the wish list...

My problem is the ones I find that I want on dvd are always for European access and do not work in the US. I can get hold of a player but it would not help in most cases.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Whoa....I don't remember how much I paid for my DVD set about ten years ago but it was most definitely a lot less than $50 and I purchased it new!

On the other hand my VHS set that I ordered from England in the late 90's was $168 American dollars....not counting shipping tax

 

[Lucy63]

Whoa....I don't remember how much I paid for my DVD set about ten years ago but it was most definitely a lot less than $50 and I purchased it new!

On the other hand my VHS set that I ordered from England in the late 90's was $168 American dollars....not counting shipping tax

I can get a player for $75 but the only copies of this show available are $115 and up so unless I win some $ on the lottery or football pool...unlikely. Darn it why are some of these great shows hoarded and not available anyplace?? People would pay. So many BBC shows in particular I can’t have access to. Would be a huge revenue source they are not getting.

Anyone here have contacts at BBC?
Do ‘t they know the US craves all shows and films UK? It is at an all-time high with The Crown, Victoria etc...there are £ to be made!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Invest in a DVD player and then go over to Amazon and get a used box set of DVD's. You will not pay that much.

I will keep my eyes peeled for you and send you a PM the second I find a good one for you!

 

[Ista]

Let's think about this...if it was well known that Catherine Howard had a sexual past...would that have discounted her potential marriage suitors (and I am not just talking about Henry). Was a virgin bride a big plus back than? And was it a true requirement for a royal bride?

And on the other side..if Henry had known about Catherine's past do you think he would have done a hard pass? I know one of the things he liked and spoke of proudly was that she was untouched.

From everything I've read about Henry at this time period in his life, if the Howards had had any true idea of her sexual past, and how careless she had been, they would not have let her anywhere near Henry. By this point he was terrifyingly vindictive, and there was no one who was safe from him if he felt thwarted or insulted.

And a virgin bride for royalty was very important (unless the bride was a known widow) because of the need to make sure any children born of the marriage were actually the king's. Additionally, I agree that there's persuasive evidence that by the time of his marriage to Katherine Howard, Henry was mostly impotent, and to marry a young woman who had been sexually active, with young men, to whom Henry might have been compared...! No, his ego wouldn't have tolerated that. As we can see from what happened when he found out the history his rose without a thorn actually had. He executed, for treason, men who had been sexually intimate with her long before he married her. That's some seriously mind-bending emotional acrobatics there.

 

[An Ard Ri]

She knew about Catherine's "past" but said nothing. Was it ambition or did her stepson the Duke of Norfolk tell her to keep her mouth shut?

She died soon after at Thetford Priory which was associated with the Howards up until its dissolution

 

[Gawin]

Let's think about this...if it was well known that Catherine Howard had a sexual past...would that have discounted her potential marriage suitors (and I am not just talking about Henry). Was a virgin bride a big plus back than? And was it a true requirement for a royal bride?

And on the other side..if Henry had known about Catherine's past do you think he would have done a hard pass? I know one of the things he liked and spoke of proudly was that she was untouched.

The Act of Attainder, which condemned Catherine and Jane Lady Rochford, also stated "if any loose-living woman dare marry the King 'without plain declaration before of her unchaste life unto his Majesty,' it was treason."

So apparently it did matter.

Source: David Starkey, "Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII" (2003), p. 681.

 

[Denville]

Of course it mattered... it migt be possible for a girl like Kath marrying a doting old husband, to fool him, but in the end the truth came out... and it DID matter that she wasn't a virgin.. and even more that she wasn't faithful to the King...

 

[Lucy63]

Much to my delight,tonight I stumbled across a version of Henry’s marriage tales that I have never seen, called “The Six Queens of Henry VIII” a BBC production. I am sure it is not new to many of you but it only popped up in an Amazon search tonight. So far, pretty good. It is another one narrated by Susanah Lipscomb but not the one I had already seen, very different.

While I understand Catherine of Aragon’s refusal to give in to Henry...I do wonder if she ever really imagined she would reclaim him in any real way if he was thwarted by her actions. She kept insisting she loved him still, but I have to believe that more than that, she was simply trying to keep Mary in line for the throne. Because Henry was not going to love her again no matter what, imo, once she had defied and denied him. At best, she would keep her title but never have Henry again in any other sense.

Maybe at her age (for the era) and her exhaustion, that was enough for her? Personally I would loathe the sight of him forever after what he pulled. I can’t believe she was naive enough to believe that if the marriage was declared valid, all would be well. And if she did...he disproved that idea in a pretty spectacular fashion.

While surely his behavior did not help her health, I think she probably would have died when she did in any case, or soon after. It seems she may have had some type of cancer, to the consensus of many historians. I wonder, if he had waited, what would have been different, with regards to Anne. Would she have waited that long if Henry was not actively battling Rome by 1532 or so? Or would she have married elsewhere?

 

[Lucy63]

It occurred to me that I am somewhat surprised Henry did not hastily remarry Anne the day or two after Katherine died, since Anne was pregnant. He was so worried about a legal male heir. I know he was convinced he was right and legally married already but deep down, he would have had to know he was a bigamist. At some level.

But then maybe Henry did not have a “deep down” ...it might be troublesome to him to reflect too closely on his deeds.

Also, he had killed too many people who denied the marriage validity so I guess he couldn’t anyway...would show he too had doubts. He had to suck it up and hope it never became an issue after his death.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Henry VIII's behavior is increasingly being attributed to serious health issues that were unable to be treated and were undiagnosable at the time, including bouts of smallpox, malaria, and his jousting injuries. His strong constitution helped him to overcome the smallpox and malaria, but the eventual injuries associated with his jousting injuries led to increasing health complications over the course of his life.

In fact, Henry became king at a young age when his father is suspected of having contracted tuberculosis and passed it on to Henry's elder brother -- both father and brother developed fevers and died because tb was undiagnosable and untreatable:

 

[An Ard Ri]

Henry VIII had rather grandiose plans for his tomb at St George's Chapel, Windsor and had also left large sums of money for Masses to be said daily for his soul though this was stopped during the reign of his son King Edward.Henry's had left instructions for a fine monumental tomb but it was never carried out.

 

[Lucy63]

Henry VIII had rather grandiose plans for his tomb at St George's Chapel, Windsor and had also left large sums of money for Masses to be said daily for his soul though this was stopped during the reign of his son King Edward.Henry's had left instructions for a fine monumental tomb but it was never carried out.

Some irony there...asking for the prayers and yet his only son so completely took hold of the Protestant faith that Henry was denied his ongoing prayers. Henry never wanted Protestantism...just his own modified Catholic religion, sans pope, relics, superstitions etc...yet in those times that prayers said for the dead were meant to speed them on thru purgatory to heaven, which sounds like a supersition to me.

 

[An Ard Ri]

And no monumental tomb either for his memory,I guess neither Mary or Elizabeth had the money for such a project!

 

[Curryong]

I think what Henry wanted from the Pope was simple, his marriage to Katherine put aside in the eyes of the Church so that he could marry Anne. Had the Pope cooperated Henry would IMO have been perfectly happy to continue with Roman Catholicism and all its accompanying rituals.

i have read that Mary left huge debts which Elizabeth had to pay off. Elizabeth was the reverse of extravagant and kept to a strict annual budget all her reign. So no, an elaborate tomb for her father was not on the cards.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The marble slab marking the burial of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour at St George's Chapel,Windsor .

https://goo.gl/images/rqFCNd

The tomb of Charles Brandon 1st Duke of Suffolk in St. George's Chapel, Windsor.

https://goo.gl/images/y9navg

Tomb of Henry Fitzroy,Duke of Richmond at the Church of St Michael the Archangel,Framlingham.

https://goo.gl/images/X9UF6s

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In what year did King Henry VIII have his jousting accident?

 

[Biri]

In 1536, when Anne Boleyn was pregnant with her son (who was stillborn).

 

[Gawin]

And no monumental tomb either for his memory,I guess neither Mary or Elizabeth had the money for such a project!

Considering how Henry treated both Mary and Elizabeth, and their mothers, I suspect it was more than a lack of money. After all, Elizabeth paid to restore the tombs of her great-great-grandparents Richard Duke of York and his wife Cecily.

 

[Erin9]

Considering how Henry treated both Mary and Elizabeth, and their mothers, I suspect it was more than a lack of money. After all, Elizabeth paid to restore the tombs of her great-great-grandparents Richard Duke of York and his wife Cecily.

I suspect the same. I remember visiting England and being shocked to see Henry VIII’s burial site at Windsor. I’d already been to Westminster and so had seen Elizabeth’s, Mary Queen of Scots, Henry Vii and Elizabeth’s tombs, etc. I have a feeling Mary and Elizabeth left his burial place simple because they wanted to. Who knows- that might well have been one of the few things they agreed on. He treated them and their mothers terribly.