English and British Royal Marriages

[iowabelle]

If you expand the definition of heir to include princes of the blood closely related to the monarch, you'll find that George III's brothers and sons also married Englishwomen or Scotswomen (brother the Duke of Gloucester married Maria Walpole, the Dowager Countess of Waldegrave; brother the Duke of Cumberland allegedly married Olive Wilmot and later Anne Horton -- this marriage inspired the Royal Marriages Act of 1772 to keep undesirables out of the family; and sons The Prince of Wales, Mrs. Fitzherbert; Duke of Clarence, later William IV, married Mrs. Jordan; Duke of Sussex, who married Lady Augusta Murray-- possibly Scottish in origin?-- and Lady Cecilia Buggin).

Admittedly, most of these marriages were made in violation of the Royal Marriages Act of 1772, and many of these involved a Catholic partner, so they were not generally recognized.

[HM Queen Catherine]

You're right Iowabelle, there were plenty of British women that married into the Royal Family by way of younger sons.

The original question/statement I was responding to, was specifically about the marriages of heirs apparent and/or reigning monarchs. George IV does fall within this category, since he married Maria FitzHerbert while he was still Prince of Wales.

Had their marriage been allowed, it would have changed history, and it was obvious that their love endured in spite of the dissolution of their marriage.

[Grace Angel]

Did William IV and Mrs. Jordan ever legally marry? I know she was his mistress for many years, ansd basically his common law wife, but I don't recall that they ever legally married.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

Did William IV and Mrs. Jordan ever legally marry? I know she was his mistress for many years, ansd basically his common law wife, but I don't recall that they ever legally married.

They never legally married.

To contract a legal marriage they would have needed the consent of George III or Parliament.

When William finally made a legal marriage (he had the consent of his brother, The Prince Regent) it was when it became a necessity to beget a successor for the throne and by then Mrs Jordan was past child bearing age and the children already born couldn't become heirs to the throne as they weren't the product of a legal marriage.

[Ella Kay]

I don't think they ever married, though they produced many, many children (ten or more). I think I remember reading that George III was relatively blase about the relationship, but I don't think that William IV ever took steps to try to make her his wife instead of his mistress.

[Grace Angel]

Yes, I had thought they never went through any sort of ceremony. You can I suppose use the term common law wife to describe the role of Mrs. Jourdan in William IV's life, but she was basically a mistress more than anything.

[lac2003]

Diana was actually more English than Charles. Camilla is more English than Charles. Nationality in the royal houses is pretty fluid. Victoria and Edward VII supposedly spoke with German accents, and the Hanovers before them certainly were German. The Duke of Edinburgh is a Greek Prince not a British one, but he's not Greek!
Oh, my husband, born and bred in Scotland, is a Scotsman. He's not Scotch, Scottish, or (heaven forbid!) British!!

[Skydragon]

He is both Scottish and British.

[Wisteria]

Originally Posted by lac2003

Oh, my husband, born and bred in Scotland, is a Scotsman. He's not Scotch, Scottish, or (heaven forbid!) British!!

I don´t want to go off subject but I can´t help remark on this Scot and Scotch adjective. Nowadays Scotch is only used for whisky but I have heard from my grandmother that when she was a young girl her grandfather, who came from Edinburgh, always referred to himself as Scotch and everything referring to his homeland as Scotch. When he did a tour of duty in Australia his son attended a school called Scotch College. Does that mean the Scottish adjective is just a fashion?

[Mermaid1962]

A professor of mine from Scotland (circa 1980) once said that Scottish was more of an English term for the Scots, but that Scotch was acceptable. Perhaps these terms do go in and out of fashion.

Originally Posted by Wisteria

I don´t want to go off subject but I can´t help remark on this Scot and Scotch adjective. Nowadays Scotch is only used for whisky but I have heard from my grandmother that when she was a young girl her grandfather, who came from Edinburgh, always referred to himself as Scotch and everything referring to his homeland as Scotch. When he did a tour of duty in Australia his son attended a school called Scotch College. Does that mean the Scottish adjective is just a fashion?

[lac2003]

Not according to him, he's not! Of course, this is a man who wanted to have a circle of Scottish soil surrounding the bed when I gave birth to our son in Germany!
The worst is when we're in the states and people ask him about being English or Irish!!
If Prince Harry had married Chelsey Davies, would he have been the first senior member of the royal family to marry a Zimbabwean?

[Ella Kay]

Originally Posted by lac2003

If Prince Harry had married Chelsey Davies, would he have been the first senior member of the royal family to marry a Zimbabwean?

I would imagine so. In fact, I can't recall any senior British royal ever marrying an African, though I could be wrong.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Nationalism is alive and well! What if Scotland, which I believe has its own Parliament, breaks away from the United Kingdom and needs its own ruler-- maybe it can be Prince Andrew once the Queen dies and then the throne will pass down through his line.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Nationalism is alive and well! What if Scotland, which I believe has its own Parliament, breaks away from the United Kingdom and needs its own ruler-- maybe it can be Prince Andrew once the Queen dies and then the throne will pass down through his line.

I really can't see Scotland accepting Andrew as their King, even though he is the Earl of Inverness, I can count on one hand the amount of times he has traveled up to the capitol of the Highlands. He has no private home in Scotland and seems to show no interest in the Scots, unlike his brother Charles, who is well thought of, even by the SNP leader Salmond, by all accounts.

[Vasillisos Markos]

I did not realize Prince Andrew was not fond of Scotland. I thought the entire Royal Family enjoyed their summer vacations in Balmoral. Some day I hope to visit Scotland.

[Mermaid1962]

There is Scotland's association with golf.

I'd like to visit Scotland someday as well. I expect that there are any number of people there who look like me, because I'd have many, many distant relatives there.

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

I did not realize Prince Andrew was not fond of Scotland. I thought the entire Royal Family enjoyed their summer vacations in Balmoral. Some day I hope to visit Scotland.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

I did not realize Prince Andrew was not fond of Scotland. I thought the entire Royal Family enjoyed their summer vacations in Balmoral. Some day I hope to visit Scotland.

With the availablity of Balmoral, plus the family 'required' holiday there, I can see why Andrew wouldn't find it necessary to purchase a house of his own in Scotland.

[Skydragon]

I don't think there is a requirement to holiday at Balmoral, nor do I think Andrew has been there in a while!

If anyone other than Charles, I think the Scots would support Anne, who demonstrates her support for Scotland on a regular basis!

[lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by scooter

With the availablity of Balmoral, plus the family 'required' holiday there, I can see why Andrew wouldn't find it necessary to purchase a house of his own in Scotland.

I don't think the family holliday is required. Not many members of the royal family choose to go up their for summer. I agree that andrew doesn't like scotland, probably too rural.

[wbenson]

There have only been Zimbabweans since 1980, so there haven't been very many royals that could have married a Zimbabwean.