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  #1641  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:01 AM
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Maybe I'm just completely crazy, since I can't feel the hatred that everyone else seems to have for this couple. But even though I hardly admire them, I do feel sympathy for them. So I won't judge them like most people do.

And by the way, mental illness can make you unable to understand your actions. But having said that, I will of coure not claim that the Duke of Windsor was clinically insane. He seems to have had some mental problems though, like a series of depressions, and (according to one source I read recently) maybe anorexia. And if a person threatens to commit suicide or stalk somebody, that sounds really serious to me. That is not just being selfish or spoiled, but a huge cry for psychiatric help.
The times back then were so very different, but what distinguishes Wallis is that she not only was dealing with David, but with a general public press that revelled in reviling her. To her credit she lived her life full throttle despite it.

However, while what Wallis was dealing with is not 'Crazy Love' as this woman describes (from Wallis' side, it was there from David's side), there are many features that are the same in Wallis's situation. JMO.

Why Domestic Violence Victims Do Not Leave
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  #1642  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:27 AM
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How this pathetic couple, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, did their best to sidestep wartime regulations and rationing.

How Edward VIII tried to cheat wartime rationing | Daily Mail Online
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  #1643  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:00 PM
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Why were they buying in London anyway? of course with the War just over, there would be restrictions and shortages of cloth and clothes in most European countres, but surely they could have made a trip to somewhere outside Europe and then they could buy up all they liked...
But pretty much everything one hears of them shows how shoddy they were
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  #1644  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
How this pathetic couple, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, did their best to sidestep wartime regulations and rationing. How Edward VIII tried to cheat wartime rationing | Daily Mail Online
Very suspicious article. I'm not convinced what it purports. Looks cobbled together. Why is the question? What Denville says is dead-on. They had no need to buy in England. Looks fabricated to feed animus. JMO.
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  #1645  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:23 PM
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There is nothing "suspicious" about it at all. Your forget the overwhelming sense of entitlement they both had and Edward did not believe he should have to observe the same rules as the plebs.

As to the availability of the goods they required? Certainly, Europe was pretty much wiped out but I am sure that the US had plenty. It did not, however, have the cachet of shoes from Harrods, bespoke shirts and suits from Hawes and Curtis and lingerie from Madame Isar's exclusive boutique.

Princess Elizabeth saved her coupons and had a wonderful (austerity time) wedding dress. Women from all over the British Empire sent coupons for her wedding dress but they had to be returned to sender. Now consider how many coupons Wallis cheated on for lingerie alone?

Note: There is nothing new about this information, it is merely more easily accessed courtesy of the internet.
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  #1646  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:43 PM
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As to the availability of the goods they required? Certainly, Europe was pretty much wiped out but I am sure that the US had plenty. It did not, however, have the cachet of shoes from Harrods, bespoke shirts and suits from Hawes and Curtis and lingerie from Madame Isar's exclusive boutique.
The U.S had clothing rationing also until after 1946, And even then some imported goods were scarce for a time because of the devastation other countries experienced.
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  #1647  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:34 PM
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Yes, the us had rationing untilthe end of the war. the U.K. Went on until the fifties. The wealthy people had avenues to subvert the rationing of meat, gasoline, and whatever melted.
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  #1648  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
How this pathetic couple, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, did their best to sidestep wartime regulations and rationing.
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
pretty much everything one hears of them shows how shoddy they were
What historical personages think and do does not impact me personally. I'll not vent spleen on people I have never met, and know naught of their trials and tribulations. 'Pathetic'? 'Shoddy'? The system they were part of created who they were and the animus directed at them made them what they were. I'm not interested in judging them harshly. Rather, through the haze of hectoring and animus, I seek to get a clearer picture of who the individuals were.

The news article is heavily biased and feeds the frenzy against them. I am not inclined to chime in with the negative about them, particularly Wallis. If lingerie eased her state of capture, that was the way it was. I suspect what they did was actually a norm back then for a certain class and their infractions may have been minuscule compared to what others did, but of that comparison one will never hear because the point is to denigrate this couple. Goal achieved. JMO.
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  #1649  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:08 AM
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Wallis could have left the marriage any time, she left her first two without regret. I don't think she was in a state of capture, she willingly went along with the capture and reaped the riches that went with that captivity. I could see their actions in the DM story, David was a pain in the neck.
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  #1650  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:19 AM
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Wallis could have left the marriage any time, she left her first two without regret. I don't think she was in a state of capture, she willingly went along with the capture and reaped the riches that went with that captivity. I could see their actions in the DM story, David was a pain in the neck.
Follow their story, particularly Wallis' side of it as has been discussed on this thread in recent posts. Wallis' first marriage was an abusive one, so there was no regret there with it's loss. Wallis did not leave her second marriage to Simpson willingly. In fact there is significant evidence that the loss of that marriage devastated her, and she deeply regretted it's loss for years after marriage to David. Its a tragic tale.

As for what Wallis could or could not have done, that is why studying the times, and the nature of a woman's place (and power) in those times is crucial to understanding what options were open to Wallis. There's that, and then there is the unpleasant reality that David was obsessed with her and threatened her with stalking if she left him (and what a spectacle that would have been!) and with killing himself. One must look at the whole of it in its time and place to fully grasp Wallis' predicament. IMO.
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  #1651  
Old 10-23-2017, 06:34 AM
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I come across it all the time, and not as in comparison to David. It seems she was an interesting woman, a good hostess, and that requires a certain like-ability. But I also think we cannot underestimate the effect the truly toxic reaction to her was in general across years. There had to have been a reaction in her deepest self. She may have become embittered over time, and living with someone like David day-in-day-out (so dependent a personality) must have had it's effect, too. After all, she never pretended to be spiritual or into self-help philosophy.

There is also something to be said that as banished as they were, they were also likely considered prey for opportunists. That would make Wallis (likely the more astute and vigilant of the two) inclined to whip out a more hauteur attitude as defense. They did not have an ideal circumstance for life, given the times. Neither had the imagination to develop their joint lives in any unusual way (as might happen now).

BTW it was on this thread that it was revealed the good social work Wallis did while in the Bahamas during the war. I don't think letters in which she vented her bitterness need stand as the final word. Wallis did make attempts to do more than be a social butterfly.

They are both so very much outcomes of their time and place. Iconic really. Will always fascinate, I think.
Lady Nimue, I couldn't help but smile when I read the words "across the years". In 1985, following a weekend in Windsor and coming home via Virginia Water, I was disappointed to find I was unable to see The Fort (Belvedere) one time home to David. I voiced this disappointment to a friend who'd been a visitor there -being related through marriage- during that extraordinary period during the 1930's. I'll never forget her words. "My dear, you'd hate it. It's full of that woman"!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
Wallis could have left the marriage any time, she left her first two without regret. I don't think she was in a state of capture, she willingly went along with the capture and reaped the riches that went with that captivity. I could see their actions in the DM story, David was a pain in the neck.
The invisible ties which bind, eh, Katrianna? Amongst them, fear and guilt being high on the list. I think David did an excellent job of making her responsible for him. However much he never wanted to be king, he could always play the "Look what I gave up for you" card. The words didn't need saying, they'd have hung there. At least Wallis had the comfort of knowing that she could be miserable in luxury.
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  #1652  
Old 10-23-2017, 07:57 AM
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Maybe I'm just completely crazy, since I can't feel the hatred that everyone else seems to have for this couple. But even though I hardly admire them, I do feel sympathy for them. So I won't judge them like most people do. [...]
You are not crazy. I feel exactly the same for Edward and Wallis.
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  #1653  
Old 10-23-2017, 08:17 AM
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The fact is that we will never know the secret of their hearts..... all of what people say are just suppositions.....likely of course but suppositions anyway.
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  #1654  
Old 10-23-2017, 08:37 AM
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I cannot like Wallis [nor Edward], but i cannot hate her either considering I think she did Britain a HUGE favour by removing him from the throne.

Both of them led essentially empty lives [certainly after 1936], and that is more pathetic than deserving of hatred.
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  #1655  
Old 10-23-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
What historical personages think and do does not impact me personally. I'll not vent spleen on people I have never met, and know naught of their trials and tribulations. 'Pathetic'? 'Shoddy'? The system they were part of created who they were and the animus directed at them made them what they were. I'm not interested in judging them harshly. Rather, through the haze of hectoring and animus, I seek to get a clearer picture of who the individuals were.

The news article is heavily biased and feeds the frenzy against them. I am not inclined to chime in with the negative about them, particularly Wallis. If lingerie eased her state of capture, that was the way it was. I suspect what they did was actually a norm back then for a certain class and their infractions may have been minuscule compared to what others did, but of that comparison one will never hear because the point is to denigrate this couple. Goal achieved. JMO.
Pathetic-- Edward persuaded the British Army in March 1946 (when Europe especially was crammed still with refugees, and want and suffering and homelessness) to put three lorries at his disposal to carry, instead of possible needed supplies, thirty two packing cases of cherished possessions from the vaults of the Bank of France, to London.

Chapter 28 'The Duke as Author' 'King Edward VIII by Philip Ziegler.

From the book 'That Woman' the author recounts that Charles Pick, the publisher had several meetings with the Duchess while her autobiography 'The Heart has its Reasons' was about to be published by his company. He recalled that he 'certainly did not find her witty or endearing in any way, but rather a brittle and hard person'.

Pick stated that at their first meeting Wallis's opening remark was 'Can you tell me who Marilyn Monroe's publicity agent is? I have all the newspapers each day and I was generally on the front page. But now I see that Marilyn Monroe is....Well, somebody has pushed me off.'
Pick had to inform her that his job really was not to be her publicist.

Pathetic? Yes. Shoddy? Yes. Self obsessed to the nth degree? Yes. And 98% of what I've every read about these two, including about six biographies and collections of letters, confirms my opinion.
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  #1656  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:37 PM
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I remember reading (in one of the many books that I had on Wallis and Edward) that she stated it was hard living "a great love story" in regards to the years after the Abdication.

There is no doubt that Edward loved Wallis (almost obsessively to be honest), and I think she cared for him as well (love I am not sure about). She definitely would have been happy to be the mistress and the power behind the throne.


Don't forget that both he and Ernest discussed the outcome of the Simpson marriage without her. How ridiculous is that? She had no say in the outcome in her marriage. Now people could rightly say that she didn't give Ernest a say in his marriage so she got what was coming to her.
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  #1657  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:24 PM
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What is so interesting about David and Wallis to me is that along with having a profound effect on the monarchy and how it affected WWII, its also a good look into people's lives and how in different ways they were affected by the actions of each other. One could almost describe it as sitting back and watching the games people play in their relationships to each other.
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  #1658  
Old 10-23-2017, 04:47 PM
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I

Don't forget that both he and Ernest discussed the outcome of the Simpson marriage without her. How ridiculous is that? She had no say in the outcome in her marriage. Now people could rightly say that she didn't give Ernest a say in his marriage so she got what was coming to her.
Ernest was fed up with her affair with David and was seeing antoher woman, whom he wanted to marry. So he wanted to end the marriage.
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  #1659  
Old 10-23-2017, 04:51 PM
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Wallis could have left the marriage any time, she left her first two without regret. I don't think she was in a state of capture, she willingly went along with the capture and reaped the riches that went with that captivity. I could see their actions in the DM story, David was a pain in the neck.
which was why the RF were very reluctant to let her have the HRH. They felt that this marriage might not last any longer than the first 2 and she might end up married to some lounge Lizard, calling herself HRH the Countess somebody and exacting curtsies from people...
I think ti wasnt' easy to leave him, because of expectations, but she would have done it if the rewards had not exceeded the tedious bits. Can't believe anyone would feel that they were justifed in buying stuff without coupons at a time when there were such awful shortages in the UK even though they had won the war.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:02 PM
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I can just picture how ostracized Wallis would have been if she had decided to end her marriage to David. After kind of being backed into a corner where her present husband and her want-to-be husband connived and plotted on how to make it all happen behind her back and then the subsequent marriage and being known as "That Woman", a divorce from David would have magnified the ostracism to the nth degree and unless Wallis was strong enough in her own skin to handle things, retreating to a nunnery or being a recluse somewhere would most likely be the only place where she could feel comfortable.

Events had forced her to make her bed where it ended up and it was perhaps easier to "go with the flow" of things and lie in the bed of her own making rather than being a lone woman against the world.
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