Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Denville]

I hadn’t realised the Queen Offered the Duchess to live at Windsor.

No I've never heard that she did.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I hadn’t realised the Queen Offered the Duchess to live at Windsor.

I did not say that she did: "By hindsight it was better when Queen Elizabeth had requested her to live her widowhood at Windsor or so, that she was cared for."

By my knowledge no such offer was made, but by hindsight it maybe was better when Queen Elizabeth had done so. It looks like poor Wallis was neglected and forgotten in her recluse. But of course also Queen Elizabeth (sister-in-law) and the Dukes of Gloucester and of Kent (nephews) could have made such an offer to the Dowager Duchess of Windsor.

It is civil and Christian to look after family and friends.

 

[muriel]

I did not say that she did: "By hindsight it was better when Queen Elizabeth had requested her to live her widowhood at Windsor or so, that she was cared for."

By my knowledge no such offer was made, but by hindsight it maybe was better when Queen Elizabeth had done so. It looks like poor Wallis was neglected and forgotten in her recluse. But of course also Queen Elizabeth (sister-in-law) and the Dukes of Gloucester and of Kent (nephews) could have made such an offer to the Dowager Duchess of Windsor.

It is civil and Christian to look after family and friends.

I do not think it was necessary for the Duchess to be accomodated at Windsor.

 

[Denville]

I did not say that she did: "By hindsight it was better when Queen Elizabeth had requested her to live her widowhood at Windsor or so, that she was cared for."

By my knowledge no such offer was made, but by hindsight it maybe was better when Queen Elizabeth had done so. It looks like poor Wallis was neglected and forgotten in her recluse. But of course also Queen Elizabeth (sister-in-law) and the Dukes of Gloucester and of Kent (nephews) could have made such an offer to the Dowager Duchess of Windsor.

It is civil and Christian to look after family and friends.

I dotn think any of them felt any obligation to her. They were only related by marriage...

 

[Roderick]

David did not die alone. His niece, his nephew by marriage, and his grand nephew visited him. And were in touch. His wife also was by his side.

OTOH, Wallis had dementia and it started around the time of David's funeral. She became more and more reclusive. She was not of sound mind at the time of her death.

Things were far worse than that. Wallis was said to be curled up in bed in a vegetative state for years before her death, no one knowing her true status because of Blum refusing her friends access to her. I can't remember who it was now, but one friend insisted on being let in to glimpse Wallis and described her as looking like a tiny frail bird with "blackened" skin. The visitor actually suspected she had already died! I'm not 100% sure of the veracity of this story but it sounds horrific.

 

[Sandy345]

The RF visited him out of politeness and family solidarity. Any intimacy had long since vanished. And poor Wallis died alone, with no friends being able to visit her..

The Queen remembered her Uncle from her childhood. I don't think she was exactly cold to him. Allegedly, Prince Charles corresponded with him.

 

[Nico]

Things were far worse than that. Wallis was said to be curled up in bed in a vegetative state for years before her death, no one knowing her true status because of Blum refusing her friends access to her. I can't remember who it was now, but one friend insisted on being let in to glimpse Wallis and described her as looking like a tiny frail bird with "blackened" skin. The visitor actually suspected she had already died! I'm not 100% sure of the veracity of this story but it sounds horrific.

Prince and Princess Michael did visit her around 1978 and she wasn't able to speak nor to leave her bed.
She was in a vegetative state by 1980 by all accounts.

 

[Denville]

Prince and Princess Michael did visit her around 1978 and she wasn't able to speak nor to leave her bed.
She was in a vegetative state by 1980 by all accounts.

Her mental state was beginning to slip from the time David died, and she grew worse... Sadly, she had no close family who mgith have arranged for better care for her.

 

[Nico]

Her mental state was beginning to slip from the time David died, and she grew worse... Sadly, she had no close family who mgith have arranged for better care for her.

She was basically victim of elder abuse from Mrs Blum.
Horrible end, really.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I dotn think any of them felt any obligation to her. They were only related by marriage...

She was a member of the British royal family and was basically abandoned to the mercy of greedy "carers". Related by marriage or not, she was family. She was the wife of a former King, she was a sister-in-law to a King, she was an aunt to a Queen and to two royal Dukes. Come on...

Imagine the Swedes said the same about Princess Lilian, or the Belgians about Queen Fabiola: "Ah, we are only related by marriage"....

 

[Osipi]

Wallis may have been legally a member of the British royal family but if my memory is working today, there was nothing that Wallis ever did after her marriage to David that would have endeared her to the BRF.

There wasn't any kind of a real familial relationship although some members of the BRF did reach out in the later years out of kindness.

 

[Roderick]

It's been suggested that the Queen and at least some other members of the royal family would have made further efforts in overseeing the welfare of the Duchess of Windsor after she was widowed if not for fears of angering the Queen Mother - whose feelings about Wallis were well known. The Queen was said by more than one observer to always be at pains never to rock the boat where her mother was concerned..."we mustn't do anything to upset Mummy".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Wallis may have been legally a member of the British royal family but if my memory is working today, there was nothing that Wallis ever did after her marriage to David that would have endeared her to the BRF.

There wasn't any kind of a real familial relationship although some members of the BRF did reach out in the later years out of kindness.

What could the Duchess ever have done more than to live with a complicated, demanding and needy man as her husband? Thát was her great contribution to the royal family. Once again: she was no obscure forgotten princess so-and-so. She was the wife of former King Edward VIII. She was the sister-in-law to King George VI. She was the aunt of Queen Elizabeth II.

Imagine that Camilla is neglected and exploited as a vulnerable demented lady, somewhere in a foreign country. Or Princess Lilian of Sweden. Or Queen Fabiola of the Belgians. All three ladies without royal offspring and only "legally" family. Unimaginable they would endure the same isolation, abuse and exploitation as poor Wallis in her golden cage.

 

[Osipi]

Is it possible though that in Wallis' later years, even though there was definitely abuse going on, that the BRF was under the impression that she was being very well cared for? Perhaps they didn't know the extent of what Wallis was going through and if they had, they may have done something about it.

Mrs. Blum must have been a very crafty person to be able to control things around Wallis and do what she did. I admit I'm not overly informed of Wallis' later years.

 

[Denville]

Is it possible though that in Wallis' later years, even though there was definitely abuse going on, that the BRF was under the impression that she was being very well cared for? Perhaps they didn't know the extent of what Wallis was going through and if they had, they may have done something about it.

Mrs. Blum must have been a very crafty person to be able to control things around Wallis and do what she did. I admit I'm not overly informed of Wallis' later years.

i don't think they did.. Unfortunately Wallis had no close family, and her friends were kept away and had no legal rights. The RF were living in the UK, did not see her and I think would have assumed that with all her wealth, even if she had no family to care for her, she had more than enough money to secure good care and nursing. My impression was that Blum was not a nice person but that Wallis still had servants and care staff who were loyal to her.. but It seems that she wasn't as well looked after as she might have been and that Blum was stealing things. But I don't think that information emerged fror some time. And its true that Wallis had never liked the RF, and they had no reason to like her. It wasn't like Camilla or other royal widows who had been living as part of the RF for many years..

 

[Nico]

According to Hugo Vickers the BRF was well aware, via the British Embassy in Paris, of the duchess of Windsor's health.
The Queen more or less let Mountbatten dealing with all the stuff regarding the Windsors , especially securing the Duke's personnal papers. Mrs Blum hated the Royal Family so much that she made a point to limit access to Wallis and the Villa Windsor.
The BRF seem to have been alerted, more than once, that something was going on (staff fired, garage sales without Wallis's approval etc ...) but again Mountbatten was sent and had to deal with Mrs Blum's inflexibility.
By 1980 Wallis was reclused in her bed and feeded by tube. The BRF knew that but as she was surrounded by nurses , they probably thought she was, indeed, well cared for.
But i think they couldn't ignore the fact that Wallis was basically kept alive by Mrs Blum, who was busy to organize some phony financiel transactions in the name of the Duchess.
The BRF just chose to look away, as they often do.

 

[Denville]

According to Hugo Vickers the BRF was well aware, via the British Embassy in Paris, of the duchess of Windsor's health.
The Queen more or less let Mountbatten dealing with all the stuff regarding the Windsors , especially securing the Duke's personnal papers. Mrs Blum hated the Royal Family so much that she made a point to limit access to Wallis and the Villa Windsor.
The BRF seem to have been alerted, more than once, that something was going on (staff fired, garage sales without Wallis's approval etc ...) but again Mountbatten was sent and had to deal with Mrs Blum's inflexibility.
By 1980 Wallis was reclused in her bed and feeded by tube. The BRF knew that but as she was surrounded by nurses , they probably thought she was, indeed, well cared for.
But i think they couldn't ignore the fact that Wallis was basically kept alive by Mrs Blum, who was busy to organize some phony financiel transactions in the name of the Duchess.
The BRF just chose to look away, as they often do.

it seems as if they did make some attempt to intervene but Blum was hard to deal with. But they did assume that she was well looked after, as she had enough money, even if Suzanne Blum helped herself to some of it, to ensure good care ANd it was surely in SB's interests to keep Wallis alive and reasonably well cared for.. so I don't think there was much they could do?

 

[Sandy345]

What could the Duchess ever have done more than to live with a complicated, demanding and needy man as her husband? Thát was her great contribution to the royal family. Once again: she was no obscure forgotten princess so-and-so. She was the wife of former King Edward VIII. She was the sister-in-law to King George VI. She was the aunt of Queen Elizabeth II.

Imagine that Camilla is neglected and exploited as a vulnerable demented lady, somewhere in a foreign country. Or Princess Lilian of Sweden. Or Queen Fabiola of the Belgians. All three ladies without royal offspring and only "legally" family. Unimaginable they would endure the same isolation, abuse and exploitation as poor Wallis in her golden cage.

Camilla has her children and grandchildren to look after her--she did not need royal children to be looked after. Wallis never had children who would have looked after her. It was said that she suffered a bad miscarriage which caused her to be unable to be a mother, when married to her first husband who was abusive to her. Wallis also was an only child and had no nieces or nephews to help.

 

[sndral]

The Duke of Windsor’s will was sealed, but if he had wanted his family to assume responsibility for his wife after his death he could have made those arrangements either in his will or before death, after all he did secure permission from the Queen for Wallis to be buried next to him at Frogmore. He chose to not do so. I’m not sure whether under French law his family had any legal right to intervene in matters relating to a woman they were not related to by blood. Unlike the Duke, Wallis never seemed particularly attached to the UK. She was well off financially, housed were she had lived for many years (tax free,) with staff she and he had chosen, w/ the formidable lawyer, also chosen by them, at the helm. It seems Ms. Blum was a poor choice. Sad how it all ended, but I can’t fault the RF for not intervening since it seems David & Wallis set things up to avoid that. Mountbatten did visit after the Dukes death, but Wallis didn’t really want to have anything to do with him, most likely because she perceived him to only be after the Duke’s possessions.

 

[Denville]

The Duke of Windsor’s will was sealed, but if he had wanted his family to assume responsibility for his wife after his death he could have made those arrangements either in his will or before death, after all he did secure permission from the Queen for Wallis to be buried next to him at Frogmore. He chose to not do so. I’m not sure whether under French law his family had any legal right to intervene in matters relating to a woman they were not related to by blood. Unlike the Duke, Wallis never seemed particularly attached to the UK. She was well off financially, housed were she had lived for many years (tax free,) with staff she and he had chosen, w/ the formidable lawyer, also chosen by them, at the helm. It seems Ms. Blum was a poor choice. Sad how it all ended, but I can’t fault the RF for not intervening since it seems David & Wallis set things up to avoid that. Mountbatten did visit after the Dukes death, but Wallis didn’t really want to have anything to do with him, most likely because she perceived him to only be after the Duke’s possessions.

I can't see how she would have had any attachment to the UK when she and Daivd had had to leave because of tehir marriage. I doubt if she would have watned to be moved ot the UK, but I agree that there' wasn't much the BRF could do, if Suzanne Blum didn't want to cooperate and WALLis was too ill to make her wishes known. .

 

[ladongas]

Why didn’t a French social services agency undertake to ascertain the well-being and treatment of a frail, elderly, wealthy (and well-connected) person like the Duchess? She had friends who were turned away from seeing her, and there were certainly rumors (I heard them in the US in even those pre-internet days) about Blum’s treatment of her ‘charge’. The British Ambassador, or the American Ambassador if she was still a US citizen....someone should have staged an intervention.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Why didn’t a French social services agency undertake to ascertain the well-being and treatment of a frail, elderly, wealthy (and well-connected) person like the Duchess? She had friends who were turned away from seeing her, and there were certainly rumors (I heard them in the US in even those pre-internet days) about Blum’s treatment of her ‘charge’. The British Ambassador, or the American Ambassador if she was still a US citizen....someone should have staged an intervention.

I think the US and French Governments thought: hmmm, she is a widow to a former British King, she is a sister-in-law to the Queen-Mother, she is an aunt to The Queen. Hmmm, better not interfere in this. The Brits have their own James Bonds from MI5, MI6, GCHQ, they have an immense Embassy in Paris, they will know best what is going on in that royal villa in the Bois de Boulogne. Let us not stick our noses into private affaires of the British royal family. And maybe the British had an opposite idea: she is in Paris, what can we do?

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

I love the Duke & Duchess of Windsor story after reading it. I think these are my favorite titles and honestly if I was a BRF member I'd love the title "Duchess of Windsor" it's the best title.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Do you think that the title of Duchess of Windsor would be granted to a British princess?

 

[Curryong]

What, as a separate title? It would be very unusual for a British Princess to be given a Dukedom on her own account, and I can't see any British Prince being given a Dukedom of Windsor again, at least not for a couple of centuries! The shadow of the Abdication looms large.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think the Windsor title will only be used again if the monarch abdicates, for selfish reasons, and not due to health or age related ones but not otherwise.

It is too highly associated with a King who effectively was forced to abdicate due to being not up to the job (and yes that is the real reason and not because he fell in love with a divorced American ... she was the convenient excuse but not the reason).

 

[Denville]

I love the Duke & Duchess of Windsor story after reading it. I think these are my favorite titles and honestly if I was a BRF member I'd love the title "Duchess of Windsor" it's the best title.

It was created to try to give some kind of suitable title for someone who walked out not just of royal life but his duty as a King.. Its not IMO a title to wish for, as it is a reminder of the trauma of the Abdication and the Windsors departure...

I doubt if it will be given again for a very long time. as it is associated with the Windsor who were persona non grata in the RF.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

Well these days the family has become more open. Harry married a Divorcee American, Beatrice's husband has a child and he fell in love. I like the titles and I hope to see them used again but it makes sense for them not to be used as it is connected to a King who abdicated.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

Do you think that the title of Duchess of Windsor would be granted to a British princess?

That would be the best case scenario.

 

[Lilyflo]

I love the Duke & Duchess of Windsor story after reading it.

What do you love about it? To me it's a story of a scheming married woman conducting an affair with the Prince of Wales in order to elevate herself in society. He was no better because he neglected his duties in order to further indulge himself in the pursuit of expensive pleasures. They were both shallow, self-indulgent and totally disinterested in public service.

To be fair, I'm grateful to Wallis Simpson for saving us from a useless king and enabling us to have a far superior replacement who was a humble family man and totally dedicated to serving our country.