British Royal History: General Questions, Random Facts & Strange Quirks


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Marquess of Norhampton and Lady Caithness

Hello.
I've registered to this forum to consult you about the ancestry of Maria Josefa Mariategui - or, using Spanish style, Maria Josefa Mariategui y Compton, better known as Duchess of Medina de Pomar (papal Countess de Pomar after her 1st husband, created duchess suo jure in 1879) or Lady Caithness (after her 2nd), who was born in 1830 or 1832 and died in 1895. As some of you may know, she was an important personality first in Spanish and French spiritist circles, and then in the French Theosophical Society.
It is said about her, and parroted even by serious historians that her mother Mary (or Maria) Compton (married in 1819, died in 1851) belonged to the family of a Marquess of Northampton. Her relation to him is variously given as "daughter of the Marques of Northampton", "granddaughter of the Earl of Northampton" or "daughter of the younger brother of the Marquis of Northampton". Given the known dates of her life, she would have to be born no later than very early in the 19th century, so the only Marquess of Norhampton whose daughter or niece she could have been - to say nothing of granddaughter - would be the first, Charles Compton. The problem is, I have found no information about him having any younger brother, or any daughter named Mary, who converted to Catholicism and married a Mariategui. On one site however, I have encountered an unsourced utterance about Spencer Compton, 8th Earl of Northampton: "He didn't remarry before his death in 1796 (when he was 57), so any child of his born 'around 1783' would have to be illegitimate." There are no more details in the sources I have been able to reach. Does any of the users of this forum know, if there was anyone in the first half of the 19th century who was claimed to be the younger son, or perhaps a younger daughter of the 8th Earl of Northampton? Does any of you know a possible identity of "Maria Compton de Mariategui", as her name was given on the memorial on the Montmartre cemetery by her grandson? Was she even related to the Earls of Northampton, or was it just a contemporary gossip (it was already in circulation in the times of the Duchess of Pomar)?
Thanks in advance to anyone who could elucidate the matter.
 
I would humbly ask admins to correct my mistake in the title of this thread from "Norhampton" to "Northampton". Thanks.
 
This is a really hard one, and I think you need the help of a professional genealogist, as it seems that the information on Maria's maternal line, (the Marquesses or Earls of Northampton) doesn't seem to be working out.

Perhaps you could tackle things another way. As Maria Josefa was a very prominent Theosophist surely the records of the International Theosophical Society or its French division would show the background of this lady? It's worth a try.

Links
 
This might be worth a try, although her own Theosophical Society of East and West was not formally a part of the Theosophical Society, which was established in France (as the "Isis" Branch) a year after she resigned her membership in Theosophical Society proper.
 
The 2 Boleyn sisters in Ireland?

Last night I was watching a documentary about a Norman Castle in Ireland that belonged to the Anglo-Norman Family The Butlers who were Earls of Ormond.The daughter of the 7th Earl,Lady Margaret Butler married Sir William Boleyn in 1465,Anne Boleyn was their granddaughter.
The story goes that 2 Boleyn sisters inherited the castle and were sent here to live after the downfall of the Boleyn Family.Its believed that Lady Margaret Butler died between 1539-1540 there are no records and no mention of where she was buried.

The castle is Clonony Castle in County Offaly and in 1803 a grave was discovered with the inscription "Here under leys Elisabeth and Mary Bullyn, daughters of Thomas Bullyn, son of George Bullyn the son of George Bullyn Viscount Rochford son of Sir Thomas Bullyn Erle of Ormond and Willsheere."

As far as I'm aware George didn't have any children or perhaps his father had 2 illegitimate daughters?

https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/clonony-boleyns/
 
George Boleyn brother of Anne, certainly did not have any legitimate children. Im not sure if perhaps there was an illegitimate son, or someone who claimed ot be a son...but this seesme to be referring to 2 daugthers of a Thomas Boleyn who was the GRANDSON of George (ANne's brother)...
 
Who on earth are these girls and how did they end up in Ireland living in one of their great grandmothers Butler family castles?


More on the grave

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172297336/mary-boleyn

They had to be related to either the Butlers of the Boleyns to take up residency in that castle.
 
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When Queen Philippa was the regent for her spouse King Edward III, did she have her own army?

Edward of Westminster, also known as Edward of Lancaster, was killed aged seventeen at the Battle of Tewkesbury, making him the only heir apparent to the English throne to die in battle.

Rule Britannia was originally written as part of an open royal revolt against King George II rather than as a patriotic anthem.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...Royal-revolt-song-against-King-George-ll.html
 
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CyrilVladisla said:
When Queen Philippa was the regent for her spouse King Edward III, did she have her own army?
Click to expand...

She did. Or at least she helped rally any army while her husband was gone. David II of Scotland tried invading the UK while Edward III was gone. Philippa with the support of her barons, headed to Northumberland believing her presence would help rally the northern lords and their men. She managed to rally 6-7000 men, a much smaller number then David. Though vastly out numbered they defeated the Scots at the battle of Neville's cross, and even captured King David.

Philippa actually accompanied her men to the battle field, where she gave a rallying speech to the troops, before she retreated to safety in the battle.

https://www.rct.uk/collection/404926/queen-philippa-at-the-battle-of-nevilles-cross

The Battle of Neville's Cross (17 Oct 1346) [War against Scotland]


She learned well as during the early years of her reign she used to accompany her husband when he was on campaign.
 
Countessmeout said:
She did. Or at least she helped rally any army while her husband was gone. David II of Scotland tried invading the UK while Edward III was gone. Philippa with the support of her barons, headed to Northumberland believing her presence would help rally the northern lords and their men. She managed to rally 6-7000 men, a much smaller number then David. Though vastly out numbered they defeated the Scots at the battle of Neville's cross, and even captured King David.

Philippa actually accompanied her men to the battle field, where she gave a rallying speech to the troops, before she retreated to safety in the battle.

https://www.rct.uk/collection/404926/queen-philippa-at-the-battle-of-nevilles-cross

The Battle of Neville's Cross (17 Oct 1346) [War against Scotland]


She learned well as during the early years of her reign she used to accompany her husband when he was on campaign.
Click to expand...


This 15th Century manuscript depicts Philippa de Hainaut at the head of an army.

Filipa_armada.jpg
 
An Ard Ri said:
Here's an article on the life of Lady Joan the illegitimate daughter of King John and later the wife of Llywelyn the Great, Prince of Wales.

https://historytheinterestingbits.com/2020/05/02/joan-lady-of-wales/
Click to expand...

Very interesting thank you. I knew of Joan but not a great deal about her. I read Edith Pargetter's Brothers of Gwynedd series many moons ago which I loved. The brothers were the sons of Joan's stepson Gruffyad. They've been on my books to reread list ever since.

The dynastic history of the various Welsh princely houses is very complicated & certainly dramatic!
 
Durham said:
Very interesting thank you. I knew of Joan but not a great deal about her. I read Edith Pargetter's Brothers of Gwynedd series many moons ago which I loved. The brothers were the sons of Joan's stepson Gruffyad. They've been on my books to reread list ever since.

The dynastic history of the various Welsh princely houses is very complicated & certainly dramatic!
Click to expand...

And remarkably her burial was preserved all be it badly damaged,see below .

Tomb of Joan, Lady of Wales at the Church of St Mary and St Nicholas, Beaumaris, North Wales

Joan%2C_Lady_of_Wales.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...nd_St_Nicholas,_Beaumaris,_North_Wales_14.JPG
 
I'm sure I've read a book about her. Maybe one of Sharon Penman's medieval Welsh history books ... yes (thank you Google!) Here Be Dragons. It was very good!
 
Alison H said:
I'm sure I've read a book about her. Maybe one of Sharon Penman's medieval Welsh history books ... yes (thank you Google!) Here Be Dragons. It was very good!
Click to expand...

Yes they cover the same period as Edith Pargetter's Gwynedd quartet but I've not read Penman's books although I've heard they're very good.
 
Durham said:
Yes they cover the same period as Edith Pargetter's Gwynedd quartet but I've not read Penman's books although I've heard they're very good.
Click to expand...
Sharon's books are amazing. She is a meticulous researcher, and if she changes anything (chronology, etc.) for the purpose of her story she explains why as part of her extensive Author's Note in each and every book. Her books are, um, longish but well worth the time to read.?
 
Between reading the messages about "The Welsh Princes" book, I've gone and ordered all three of the trilogy. abebooks.com loves me. I keep them in business. Now you know where my stimulus check from the US government is going.

What I love about these kind of books is that the story may be fiction but being based in true history, it whets the appetite to learn even more after reading the books. Now to hunt down Edith Pargetter's Brothers of Gwynedd series.

Thanks much for mentioning them!! ?
 
Princess Louise Hollandine of the Palatinate was born in Holland in 1622. She was the daughter of Elizabeth Stuart, who was the daughter of King James I of England. Holland gifted the newborn princess with a life pension of two hundred pounds a year.
 
Alphonso (1273-1284) was the son of King Edward I of England and Eleanor of Castile. He was the heir apparent. He had the title of Earl of Chester. He predeceased his father. However, had he succeeded his father, he would have been King Alphonso I of England.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Alphonso (1273-1284) was the son of King Edward I of England and Eleanor of Castile. He was the heir apparent. He had the title of Earl of Chester. He predeceased his father. However, had he succeeded his father, he would have been King Alphonso I of England.
Click to expand...

Alphonso, Earl of Chester had 2 elder brothers John had died in 1271 Henry who died in 1274.
The Prince was named in honour of his maternal uncle King Alphonso X of Castile.
 
An Ard Ri said:
I'd never heard of Saint Mildburh of Wenlock before but looked her up and we missed her Feast Day on the 23rd of February!
Click to expand...

We should never miss a feast day!:D

I suppose it shows how much history there is that we don't know. My knowledge of the whole Anglo-Saxon period (half a millenium!) is pretty rusty to be honest. Especially the more obscure periods & kingdoms. Apart from the obvious Alfred et al.
 
I have actually been to Wenlock Priory, but I'm afraid I don't remember anything about St Mildburh, just that it was very hard to park the car!
 
Alison H said:
I have actually been to Wenlock Priory, but I'm afraid I don't remember anything about St Mildburh, just that it was very hard to park the car!
Click to expand...

It's one place I've never been. It does look beautiful though. Like so much of Shropshire. And still unspoiled - so long as we ignore Telford (sorry Telfordians:D).
 
There were plans to turn Wenlock Priory into a parish church in 1540 following the dissolution of the priory but sadly the plans fell by the wayside and it was plundered and largely torn down.
 
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