Marriages Between British Royal Cousins

[Roslyn]

The idea of first cousins marrying makes me squirm, but the concept of uncle/niece marriages makes me feel quite ill. It's wrong on so many levels.

Assuming it is your father's brother you are marrying, your father becomes your brother-in-law, your siblings are also your nieces and nephews, your children are your siblings' nieces and nephews but also their first cousins, and you are the mother of your own first cousins. Even apart from the general ickyness, it's just too complicated for me.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The idea of first cousins marrying makes me squirm, but the concept of uncle/niece marriages makes me feel quite ill. It's wrong on so many levels.

Assuming it is your father's brother you are marrying, your father becomes your brother-in-law, your siblings are also your nieces and nephews, your children are your siblings' nieces and nephews but also their first cousins, and you are the mother of your own first cousins. Even apart from the general ickyness, it's just too complicated for me.

How about this? I know a family where the mother of two daughters divorced her husband and married secondly the father of two sons, a widower. So the small girls grew up with their stepbrothers. When they were teenagers, each girl fell in love with one of the stepbrothers and they married as soon as they were adults. They got children. But then both marriges broke up and they were divorced - only to find love with the respective other brother. And again there was a marriage and children. Now explain to anyone how these children are related! And what is blood relation and what is legal relation (as their grandparents were married, but not to the partner who was parent to the children)...and which of the children could marry legally and why.... LOL.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I think I posted this example somemewhere on these forums already but then...

The most interesting case for me in this topic is the currant Bavarian RF, the branch of prince Ludwig. Most of you know that the Wittelsbach in the 19.th century had some serious cases of mental illness or at least mental problems. Kings Ludwig II. and Otto and their cousin Elisabeth of Austria come to mind.
So it made me curious when I learned that

a) Elisabeth of Austria's husband, emperor Franz Joseph was himself the son of her mother's sister, so half Wittelsbach of Bavaria himself. Elisabeth was descended from a inter-Wittelsbach-marriage, so both father and mother were Wittelsbachs. They had a daughter called Gisela who married her cousin Leopold of Bavaria, a grandnephew of both her Wittelbach-grandmothers. How about the chance of them having healthy children? But they did have them and the descendants living today are as well.

b) Same with the descendants from the marriage of Ludwig and Irmingard of Bavaria, both descendents of numerous Wittelsbach and Habsburg-intermarriages. Healthy children and grandchildren, so one wonders where the disease came from and went to?

 

[Furienna]

How about this? I know a family where the mother of two daughters divorced her husband and married secondly the father of two sons, a widower. So the small girls grew up with their stepbrothers. When they were teenagers, each girl fell in love with one of the stepbrothers and they married as soon as they were adults. They got children. But then both marriges broke up and they were divorced - only to find love with the respective other brother. And again there was a marriage and children. Now explain to anyone how these children are related! And what is blood relation and what is legal relation (as their grandparents were married, but not to the partner who was parent to the children)...and which of the children could marry legally and why.... LOL.

I know things happen, but that's just weird.

I think I posted this example somemewhere on these forums already but then...

The most interesting case for me in this topic is the currant Bavarian RF, the branch of prince Ludwig. Most of you know that the Wittelsbach in the 19.th century had some serious cases of mental illness or at least mental problems. Kings Ludwig II. and Otto and their cousin Elisabeth of Austria come to mind.
So it made me curious when I learned that

a) Elisabeth of Austria's husband, emperor Franz Joseph was himself the son of her mother's sister, so half Wittelsbach of Bavaria himself. Elisabeth was descended from a inter-Wittelsbach-marriage, so both father and mother were Wittelsbachs. They had a daughter called Gisela who married her cousin Leopold of Bavaria, a grandnephew of both her Wittelbach-grandmothers. How about the chance of them having healthy children? But they did have them and the descendants living today are as well.

b) Same with the descendants from the marriage of Ludwig and Irmingard of Bavaria, both descendents of numerous Wittelsbach and Habsburg-intermarriages. Healthy children and grandchildren, so one wonders where the disease came from and went to?

Some times, the children can be fine, even though their parents are too closely related, But it can go wrong, especially if people in one family marry close relatives in generation after generation, and I guess that's why have such strong feelings towards inbreeding and incest.

 

[Warren]

This thread is supposed to be about British Royal first/second cousin marriages.

 

[Velasco]

I have read that during Henry VIII's early attempts to annull his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, the Pope offered to provide a dispensation for the marriage of his only legitimate daughter Mary to his bastard son Henry FitzRoy (her half-brother), whom he was planning to make King of Ireland, if he agreed to stay with Catherine.

Imagine that !

 

[Furienna]

I never heard that before, even I though I was familiar with Henry FitzRoy.

 

[Russophile]

I have read that during Henry VIII's early attempts to annull his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, the Pope offered to provide a dispensation for the marriage of his only legitimate daughter Mary to his bastard son Henry FitzRoy (her half-brother), whom he was planning to make King of Ireland, if he agreed to stay with Catherine.

Imagine that !

Gross!
But intriguining <sic, hey how do I turn spell check back on?> nonetheless. Kinda like a train wreck, you have to watch. . .
So, any sources for this V?

 

[Velasco]

Yes, I will look it up and post

 

[Velasco]

Alison Weir: Henry VIII: King and Court, p. 291;

"Cardinal Campeggio arived in London in October 1528. The Pope had secretly instructed him to bring about a reconciliation between the King and Queen, but if that was not possible he was to persuade Katherine to enter a convent, thus freeing Henry to make another marriage. Campeggio soon saw that there was no chance of the former, and the Queen made it very clear that she had no vocation for the religious life: she insisted she was the King's true wife, and nothing would make her say otherwise. As for the Cardinal, who took the opposite viewpoint, Campeggio had no more success with him 'than if I had spoken to a rock'. Moreover, it soon became obvious to the legate what drove the King, and he reported to Clement: 'He sees nothing, he thinks of nothing but Anne; he cannot do without her for an hour. He is constantly kissing her and treating her as if she were his wife.' However, he was quite certain that they had 'not proceeded to any ultimate conjunction.'

Campeggio soon made it clear that Clement was prepared to offer Henry anything except the annullment he so desired, even a dispensation for a marriage between the Princess Mary and her half-brother Henry FitzRoy. He insisted that Pope Julius's dispensation was sound, but the King would not accept this."
​

 

[Velasco]

Earlier in Henry's reign, there were rumours that he had an affair with Lady Elizabeth Howard,...mother of his future mistress Lady Mary Boleyn and wife Lady Anne Boleyn. His and Anne's enemies spread these rumours later on, well into Queen Elizabeth's reign,...not first cousin marriage but still on-topic since it would make them rather closely related.

edit; Well, not technically related, but definitely connected.

 

[Russophile]

Thanks V!
I find it highly interesting though it still grosses me out!

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

What a twisted web, for sure!

 

[Furienna]

Yes, indeed. I knew Henry VIII:s life was a twisted web, but this just gets worse and worse. It's a very interesting read though. By the way, wasn't Elizabeth Howard, and her daughters, related to Catherine Howard, his fifth wife?

 

[scooter]

Catherine Howard and Anne Bolyen were 1st cousins. Lots of inbreeding (if not what would be called incest) in those days.

 

[Furienna]

I knew it something like that. Jeeesh...

*My 800th post!*

 

[Velasco]

Anne Boleyn's mother, Elizabeth Howard (Henry 8's rumoured lover) was the aunt of his fifth wife, Catherine Howard.

All of Henry VIII's wives were cousins, without exception, as were a number of his mistresses (Lady Mary Boleyn was Anne's sister and Catherine's cousin, Madge Shelton was a cousin of the Boleyns, and so forth).

 

[Russophile]

Oooh, they like to keep it in the family. .. . .

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

to quote Jo in "Little Women"....
Christopher Columbus!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Grace Angel]

George I of England and his wife Sophia- Dorothea of Zelle were first cousins. Out of Henry VIII's wives only Catharine Howard and Anne Boleyn were cousins correct? Anne of Cleves wasn't related to Henry himself or any of his other wives, and neither was Katharine Parr or Jane Seymour to my knowledge. Catharine of Aragon wasn't related to his other wives either. She was distantly related to Henry himself because she had some English royal blood from the Middle Ages, the families of Lancaster and York, as did Henry himself. Also, Mary I married Philip II, her second cousin, child of her cousin Charles V.

 

[MAfan]

yes, Catherine Howard and Anne Boleyn were first cousins; Anne's mother was the sister of Catherine's father.

 

[Grace Angel]

Also William and Mary were first cousins, I forgot to add them.

 

[Furienna]

Who are William and Mary? (Forgive me if it's a stupid question.)

 

[Elspeth]

William and Mary

They're the only joint monarchs in British/English history.

 

[Grace Angel]

Weren't George IV and Caroline of Brunswick cousins too on his mother's side? What about Caroline of Ansbach and George II? I thought someone said they were cousins earlier on this thread.

 

[MAfan]

William and Mary

They're the only joint monarchs in British/English history.

Oh, I tought they were Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester, and his wife Princess Mary, daughter of George III! (Who also were first cousins...)

 

[pacomartin]

Pardon the quick mention of the Hapsburgs, but they are not totally irrelevant to the British monarchy. Catherine of Aragon sister married a Hapsburg, and her daughter married a Hapsburg (1st cousin once removed). The British royal family is also descended from earlier Spanish royalty.
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An uncle/niece marriage is equivalent to half-sibling marriage. Charles II (the last Hapsburg King of Spain) was the child of an uncle/niece marriage. However, two of his great grandparents were also uncle/niece marriages. His maternal grandmother was also the daughter of his paternal grandparents. The most distant couple/familial relationship in the previous three generations was first cousin once removed. Charles II genetically was equivalent to being born from FULL BLOODED SIBLINGS or a FATHER/DAUGHTER pairing.
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In Britain there have been 16 marriages since Henry the 8th that resulted in a royal consort. Out of these 15 were 3rd cousins once removed or closer. The only one that was 13th cousins was the parents of the present Queen.
- In addition to the the 16 marriages, there were two that did not involve a royal consort. James II married Anne Hyde who gave birth to Queen Mary II and Queen Anne. But she died before she became queen consort. The marriage was considered scandalous, partly because her pedigree was unknown and she was not royal. The family relationship is unknown. Likewise there is no known relationship between Edward and Wallis Simpson, but she was never a royal consort.
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Someone pointed out that marrying a first cousin is the same genetic risk to the children as having a child past the age 40. That is a true statement, but there is a cumulative affect from repeated cousin marriages. Some of the children of Pakistani-Britain are effected with extremely painful genetic diseases, and the incidence of genetic disease is over a dozen times the rate of the general population.
The British royal family has no known genetic disease caused by cousin marriages. As was pointed out, while hemophilia is a genetic disease, it is completely unrelated to Victoria's first cousin marriage to Albert. However, the marriages are close enough so that there is strong family resemblances. Prince Michael looks like Tsar Nicholas, but 3 out of 4 of his grandparents were first cousins to Nicholas. He also speaks Russian and grooms himself to accentuate the resemblance to the Tsar.
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QEII and Prince Philip are 2nd cousins once removed and 3rd cousins,
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Interestingly Prince Charles intended to keep the tradition alive. His 2nd cousin was being groomed since she was a teenager to marry him and be the future queen. She lost two grandparents, and a younger brother to the IRA bomb in 1979. She no longer wished to have such a public life after the tragedy.
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Charles and Diana are 7th cousins once removed at the closest. They have dozens of more remote cousin relationships. The pedigrees of both families are well known. Charles and Camilla are no closer than 11th cousins.

 

[pacomartin]

The line of succession is descendants from Sophia of Hanover by the Act passed in 1701. Sophia however only had 3 grandchildren and two of them married. As a result everyone in the line is descended from George I and his wife (also his first cousin).
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George I and his cousin/wife were a little unusual in that their respective fathers were brothers. It was much more common for sibling parents to be brother/sister or sisters. The marriage was extremely unhappy and George I imprisoned his wife/cousin for over half of her adult life for the crime of adultry (while both their fathers were alive). Of course, he was sleeping around as well, and had several illegitimate children after locking up his wife.
George II never forgave George I for locking up his mother for three decades. It does raise an interesting possibility. If George II was actually illegitimate, the line should have rightfully gone to his sister. But his sister married her first cousin and formed the Prussian line of sovereigns, that eventually became the German emperors. Perhaps the British monarchy should have been a union of crowns with the German monarchy.
There is no physical evidence to prove this scenario. The couple was having knock down physical fights from the start, so it is possible.
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I put the exact degree of the closest known cousin relationship for every British royal marriage into this Wikipedia article . There were four first cousin marriages, and two first cousin once removed marriages (all after the death of Henry 8th). From William the Conqueror to Henry 8th, the marriages tended to be more distant cousins.

 

[pacomartin]

This might help.
Relationship to Henry 8th to his wife:
Catherine Aragon 3rd cousin once removed
Anne Boleyn , 5th cousin once removed
Jane Seymour 5th cousin
Katherine Howard, 5th cousin once removed
Anne of Cleves, 5th cousin
Katherin Parr, 3rd cousin, once removed
==============
Anne Boleyn relationship to the other wives
1) 1st cousins to Katherine Howard.
2) 2nd cousins to Jane Seymour.
3) 4th cousins once removed to Katherine Parr.
4) 6th cousins once removed to Catherine of Aragon.
5) 8th cousins once removed to Anne of Cleves.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

According to the Wikipedia article, cited above by Pacomartin, the marriage of Queen Elizabeth II's parents is the most distant family relationship which produced a monarch. George VI and Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon had Henry VII as their most recent common ancestor, making them 13th cousins. Charles and Camilla's most recent common ancestor is James I who died in 1625. Charles's marriage to Diana was between 7th cousins once removed while his marriage to Camilla is between 11th cousins