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  #61  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:30 AM
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This is a really interesting thanks to whoever began this....
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  #62  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:36 AM
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I agree, it's a fascinating subject and it can be confusing.
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  #63  
Old 11-24-2009, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Angel View Post
Weren't George IV and Caroline of Brunswick cousins too on his mother's side? What about Caroline of Ansbach and George II? I thought someone said they were cousins earlier on this thread.
George IV and Caroline of Brunswick were first cousins. Both were the grandchildren of Prince Frederick and Princess Augusta of Wales. George of course, was the son of George III, while Caroline was the daughter of Augusta Frederica, Duchess of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel. George III and the Duchess were brother and sister.

George IV and Caroline were also more distantly related through her father Karl II (Charles), Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel. His mother was Princess Philippine Charlotte of Prussia, daughter of Frederick Wilhelm I of Prussia and Sophia Dorothea of Hanover.

Sophia Dorothea was the only daughter of George I and Sophia Dorothea of Celle. And interestingly, Frederick Wilhelm's mother was Sophia Charlotte of Hanover, sister of George I - which makes the marriage of Frederick Wilhelm and Sophia Dorothea of Hanover also between 1st cousins.

--------------------------

The closest relationship between George II and Caroline of Ansbach I have found was through their common ancestor, Johann Georg, Elector of Brandenburg. Through this relationship, George II and Caroline of Ansbach were 3rd cousins once removed.

Johann Georg, Elector of Brandenburg (1525-1598) married Princess Elisabeth of Anhalt-Zerbst (1563-1607). She was his third and last wife, and the mother of Magdalene of Brandenburg (1582-1616) and Joachim Ernst, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1583-1625).

Magdalene married Ludwig V, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt, and through her daughter Anna Eleonore, was the grandmother of Ernst August, Duke of Hanover; the great grandmother of George I; and the great-great grandmother of George II.

Joachim Ernst, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach, married Sofie of Solms-Laubach, and was the father of Albrecht, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1620-1667).He was the grandfather of Joahnn Friedrich, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1654-1686), and the great grandfather of Caroline of Ansbach.

Caroline was orphaned at a young age (her father died when she was 3 - her mother when she was 12/13), and because she was attractive and intelligent, she was an highly eligible bride for several important dynasties. She even turned down Charles VI, Holy Roman Emperor, because she refused to become Catholic. In her choice of George II, she could remain Protestant.

Caroline does have at least one ancestor slightly connected with England through her mother, Princess Eleonore of Saxe-Eisenach. That would be her great-great-great grandmother, Sybille of Cleves, who was the sister of Anne of Cleves. Sybille was also offered as a bride for Henry VIII, but he chose Anne instead. And Sybille wound up marrying Johann Friedrich, Elector of Saxony.
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  #64  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:01 AM
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It's one thing if marrying in the family is a one off isolated incident. But, if you had the product of a first cousin or uncle/neice marriage who then himself married a person who was also the product of a first cousin marriage and who was coincidentally also related to you...you can see where I'm going with this? Hapsburg lip to the 20th degree.
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  #65  
Old 01-24-2010, 04:40 PM
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You do realise that in the Middle Ages most marriages would have been that way - not just royal ones but all marriages - due to the fact that most people married someone from within their own village and that continued for generations and look where we are today. It has only really been since the Industrial Revolution (and the mass emigration from Europe that also came at about the same time) that people started to marry outside their family.
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  #66  
Old 01-25-2010, 01:49 AM
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Well, I still think people back then actually avoided marrying their closest relatives (even though cousin marriages did happen). The church didn't approve of such marriages either.
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  #67  
Old 01-25-2010, 02:01 AM
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You're quite right with the church. When my great-grandparents planned to marry back in the early 20th century coincidentally they shared the same family name. So, the church did an extensive research to prove that they were not anyhow related and not til then they were allowed to marry. This must have been the policy with commoners, at least in the 20th century, but as we see it was different with Royal Families as many of them married cousins (the Queen & Prince Philip, George V. & Mary of Teck etc.).
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  #68  
Old 01-25-2010, 02:41 AM
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But even among royals, I think it was preferred, that you didn't marry a too close relative. But as royals only were allowed to marry other royals, they had limited options. And even among royals, king Harald of Norway has an extreme history. Not only were his parents first cousins, but so were his paternal grandparents, and his maternal grandparents were first cousins once removed.
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  #69  
Old 01-25-2010, 03:19 AM
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Yes, and that is a good example why I find it rather alarming. In several countries nowadays it is allowed to marry a first cousin (it still is a reason for difficulty for the Roman Catholic Church for example, but it can be allowed through a dispensation) and as it is explained earlier in this thread the risks for children from such a marriage being mentally or physically disabled aren't higher as a woman giving birth to her first child at 40 (though I think that most of us wouldn't marry a cousin because of social matters). However, the thing is that in Royal Families cousins were often double and triple related and that makes it of course more difficult and risky IMO.
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  #70  
Old 05-01-2011, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
---------------
Interestingly Prince Charles intended to keep the tradition alive. His 2nd cousin was being groomed since she was a teenager to marry him and be the future queen. She lost two grandparents, and a younger brother to the IRA bomb in 1979. She no longer wished to have such a public life after the tragedy.
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What's her name?
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  #71  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:05 AM
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As far back as ancient Egypt, royals were marrying not just relatives, but siblings in order, I imagine, to keep the bloodline "pure." This has been done, thankfully, to a somewhat lesser degree, ever since. Contrary to popular belief, however, constant intermarriages per se, do not give rise to insanity and disability, but they also do not allow any flaws to dissipate, hence the blood disorder which circulated through the British royals for so long, wreaking havoc across Europe-then look , if you will, at the lack of height in our RF- another legacy of QV?- and see how the introduction of new blood, courtesy of Diana Spencer, has transformed their new generation. However, the ongoing introduction of "common" blood, over time must surely dilute the Blood Royal to a point were it can no longer be regarded as other or apart from the rest of society,at which time their relevance may be questioned.
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  #72  
Old 05-23-2011, 02:40 AM
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Tsaritsa....just to give you some idea of the intermarrying in the European royal houses, Google "line of succession to British Throne". Last time I looked more than 2000 were listed the latest being the twins of Mary and Frederick of Denmark.
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  #73  
Old 05-23-2011, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
What's her name?
India Hicks,daughter of Pamela Mountbatten...
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  #74  
Old 05-23-2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
This might help.
Relationship to Henry 8th to his wife:
Catherine Aragon 3rd cousin once removed
Anne Boleyn , 5th cousin once removed
Jane Seymour 5th cousin
Katherine Howard, 5th cousin once removed
Anne of Cleves, 5th cousin
Katherin Parr, 3rd cousin, once removed
==============
Anne Boleyn relationship to the other wives
1) 1st cousins to Katherine Howard.
2) 2nd cousins to Jane Seymour.
3) 4th cousins once removed to Katherine Parr.
4) 6th cousins once removed to Catherine of Aragon.
5) 8th cousins once removed to Anne of Cleves.
Very interesting,thank you
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  #75  
Old 05-23-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
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India Hicks,daughter of Pamela Mountbatten...
Wrong Mountbatten granddaughter.

Mountbatten was pushing for Charles to marry Amanda Knatchbull (sp), the daughter of Patricia. From what I have read, there wasn't any real spark but the two (Charles and Amanda) were good friends. Mountbatten died, Charles flirted around with Anna Wallace, that didn't work out....and ended up with Diana.

India Hicks was a bridesmaid at Charles's wedding and is the daughter of Pamela....without looking at the specifics...she was around 15 to 18...too young to be considered marriage material.
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  #76  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:51 PM
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I googled India Hicks and interestingly, she is preceded in the line of succession by Jordan Brudenell and is followed by Prince Philip, which makes sense since her grandfather was Prince Philip's uncle. India's children are not in line of succession because they are born out of wedlock. If anyone is interested, she and Prince Philip are 521st and 522nd in line, respectively.
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  #77  
Old 05-23-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
If anyone is interested, she and Prince Philip are 521st and 522nd in line, respectively.
Actualy they are further down than that.

As of the 1st january 2011 they were 678th and 679th respectively. since then they have slipped even further down the line.

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  #78  
Old 05-23-2011, 04:28 PM
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i was searching through my family history and found very close cousins...
Marie Klementine Erzherzogin von Österreich married Francesco I di Borbone, Re delle Due Sicilie ... Her dad was his moms brother. AND Her mom was his dads brother.... all related
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  #79  
Old 05-23-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
Actualy they are further down than that.

As of the 1st january 2011 they were 678th and 679th respectively. since then they have slipped even further down the line.

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My dear David Lewis,

Thank you for the correction and updated information. All those people preceding IH and PP in the line of succession have obviously been creating other claimants.

Wikipedia needs to update its information on India Hicks I wondered when her entry was created?
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