The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > British Royal History

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #61  
Old 06-06-2011, 08:38 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
She's the granddaughter of a Baron and the fact she married Charles after Diana & Andrew, that might have something to do with the 'first' aspect.
Diana was a commoner too, even though the scion of an ancient noble house.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 5,907
The confusion comes from the fact that in Britain, anyone and everyone who is not a born Royal is considered a commoner.

So that is why Diana Spencer, with a lineage that was traced back to the Royal Stuarts and even beyond...was still considered a commoner even though she was obviously an aristocrat with blue blood.

ICAM that it is confusing and makes no sense, but that's the way they see it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:40 AM
HM Queen Catherine's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rendsburg, Germany
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The confusion comes from the fact that in Britain, anyone and everyone who is not a born Royal is considered a commoner.

So that is why Diana Spencer, with a lineage that was traced back to the Royal Stuarts and even beyond...was still considered a commoner even though she was obviously an aristocrat with blue blood.

ICAM that it is confusing and makes no sense, but that's the way they see it.
This is not the case.. It has nothing whatsoever to do with bloodlines or social status.

A commoner is a person who is not the Sovereign and not a peer.

If you are not the Sovereign and do not hold a peerage.. then according to British law you are a commoner.

That goes for every member of a peer's family that holds a courtesy title (i.e. Lady Diana Spencer) and every member of the royal family who does not hold a peerage (i.e. HRH Prince Harry).

So legally speaking, Prince William was just as much a commoner as Catherine Middleton until the morning of their wedding. Now that he is The Duke of Cambridge, he is no longer a commoner.. but his wife still is. She doesn't hold a peerage in her own right and only takes her title from him.

Likewise - HRH The Duchess of Cornwall, HRH The Countess of Wessex, HRH The Princess Royal, HRH Prince Harry of Wales, both Princesses of York and both the Wessex children - are all commoners in the eyes of the law.

This does not mean that they are not royal - clearly The Queen's children are royal and the BRF occupies the highest level of social rank in the UK - but the media tends to distort the legal definition of a commoner to sell papers and get viewers, etc.

They confuse what a Commoner actually is with bloodline or social rank.. when they are two entirely different things.
__________________
Ú i vethed...nâ i onnad. Minlû pedich nin i aur hen telitha. - Arwen & Aragorn, The Lord of the Rings
(English translation: "This is not the end... it is the beginning. You told me once, this day would come.")
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-07-2011, 10:32 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 5,907
Thanks for the clarification HM QueenCatherine, but I am even more confused now than ever.

Thank goodness that Britain seems to be the only country with a monarch that delineates the lines between commoner and Royalty in such a complicated way.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-07-2011, 02:14 PM
HM Queen Catherine's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rendsburg, Germany
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Thanks for the clarification HM QueenCatherine, but I am even more confused now than ever.

Thank goodness that Britain seems to be the only country with a monarch that delineates the lines between commoner and Royalty in such a complicated way.
Its really quite simple.. British law divides people into three categories: Sovereign, Peer and Commoner. If you don't belong to either of the first two categories.. then you belong to the third.

Obviously, there is only one Sovereign.. and to be a Peer you have to hold a title in your own right. The heirs of peers often hold courtesy titles (like the Earl of Arundel), but they are not holders in their own right.

It is not an issue delineated by the Sovereign at all. This division evolved with the British Parliament, and used to be the benchmark for men who could stand for election to the House of Commons.

Of course, in the Middle Ages, the term Commoner only applied to men.. since women were chattel and could not stand for election in any case.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Ú i vethed...nâ i onnad. Minlû pedich nin i aur hen telitha. - Arwen & Aragorn, The Lord of the Rings
(English translation: "This is not the end... it is the beginning. You told me once, this day would come.")
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-07-2011, 03:39 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
So....Queen Elizabeth was a commoner until she was Queen? Interesting....
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-07-2011, 09:44 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: ., Israel
Posts: 35
Regardless of what the dry (and unknown) law say I think most people would consider children and grandchildren of peers as part of the nobility/aristocracy, as they spend their life in the same aristocratic social circle, enjoy the benefits of their position, etc.

Of course we need to ask if Kate Middleton was really a commoner? Title or not title her parents are still millionaires and so she was raised accordingly and is a part of the British upper class as much as William.

To be honest I don't think William (and his friends) had problems associate with upper class "commoners" as Middleton, it's that the main reason for this being a big deal is the media wanted to turn the wedding into a fairytale story.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-30-2011, 10:25 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,546
I don't consider Kate an aristocrat at all. Her parents are self made millionaires which puts her in a difference set than Diana who was born rich, raised rich, and married rich. Kate's parents are nouveau money and are self made; to me that makes them better than the "aristocracy" but to the aristocracy they are probably looked down upon.
As to royals marrying commoners, I was always under the impression that marrying aristocracy or "lower" was a necessity because there aren't that many royal houses left like before WWI.
__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:04 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 9,464
There is a difference between being noble and being part of the aristocracy.

Being noble means having a title in your own right.

Being an aristocrat means being part of a noble family - so Diana was an aristrocrat but a commoner. Earl Spencer is both a noble and an aristocrat.


So all nobles are aristrocrats but not all aristocrats are noble - only the title holder in the family is noble - William is now noble. Kate isn't noble but she is now royal.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:11 AM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,546

And I want to move to England! Hopefully i won't have to deal with this crazy stuff.
__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:07 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 9,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post

And I want to move to England! Hopefully i won't have to deal with this crazy stuff.

You won't - you will be a commoner, like the overwhelming majority of the population.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 01-27-2014, 03:49 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,751
In the book Princess Michael of Kent by Peter Lane, the author stated:
Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, the future Queen Mother, was fully aware that marriage into the Royal Family would bring not only "big responsibilities" but a wholesale change in the pattern of her own life. She agreed to marry the Duke of York, was welcomed into the family by King George V and went on to be a popular and supportive wife.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Commoner/Royal Marriages, Do They Work? AristoCat Royal Chit Chat 28 06-24-2015 11:54 AM
Famous Ancestors of "Commoner" Royals crisiñaki Royalty Past, Present, and Future 52 04-21-2011 01:41 AM
Commoner misse Member Introductions and Updates 1 04-14-2008 12:21 AM




Popular Tags
best outfit birth camilla chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown princess catharina-amalia crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events death denmark duchess of cornwall fashion fashion poll funeral general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie king abdullah of jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king philippe king willem-alexander letizia maxima official visit photo session picture of the week president hollande prince carl philip prince daniel prince frederik prince of wales princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess beatrice princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess eugenie princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary style princess mette-marit princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen fabiola queen letizia queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima style queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal fashion sofia hellqvist spanish royals state visit sweden the hague united states of america wedding willem-alexander


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises