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  #141  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:13 AM
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Juana 'la Loca' was not so much insane but was in the way of her own father, and later her son - After her mothers death SHE was the righfull Queen - but her father didn't want to let her have any power - so she was locked away and it the story of her beeing mad was fabricated.

There are a lot of historic persons who where alowed zu visit her: there ist much evidence that she wasn't mad at all - at first she was very much upset by the death of her husband - but that was just all.
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  #142  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:15 AM
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King George III wasn't crazy - he was ill with Porphyria -
I am aware of that, thank you, still he had mental issues (hallucinations and paranoia) due to his desease.
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  #143  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:19 AM
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--
From what I've read, it looks like a lot of Sissi's self esteem was tied to her looks, which is one reason her husband chose to marry her; she was introverted, independent, extremely vain, competitive about her beauty -- maybe to help keep her husband -- and had "restricting type" anorexia (with restricting calories and excessive exercise). Anorexics are about power. They often feel powerless in their everyday lives but they can control what they eat and their exercise. I've read articles in the past that mention how difficult it was for Sissi to perform properly in the highly restrictive and disciplined Austrian court of the time. Sissi's mother-in-law had Sissi's children taken away so they would be raised according to the Austrian court standards. After awhile Sissi wanted to escape her highly disciplined life, rarely seeing her offspring, wanted freedom, independence, and traveling was the way she chose to escape. She also believed her son and his girlfriend were murdered. A lot of important things were out of Sissi's control. She needed a reprieve and chose to escape by traveling and seeing the world. She was lucky to have had the money and that the royal family finally allowed her to do so. She was obsessive, independent, anorexic, determined, willful, but to say she was crazy seems harsh to me. I think she adjusted the best way she could and worked very hard at keeping one thing that was obvious to the public that she excelled at and helped her self esteem -- and that was her looks.
I completely agree,I have read a lot of books about the Empress and I travelled to many places she´d been in her life and she doesn´t cease to amaze me...however I would not call her crazy but rather excentric and unconventional.She was a very intelligent,educated woman with many interesting hobbies but unfortunately most people of her time didn´t understand her or took her serious.Empress Elisabeth inherited her father´s love of nature,riding and travelling but when she married she was expected to be an obdenient wife who´s only duty is to give birth to an heir and look elegant.Her children were taken away from her and her life was very restricted and controlled,but she could manage to take care of her image and so she tried everything to look as magnificient as possible.Being so beautiful and adored also gave her some power which she wisely used-for instance to support the Hungarians who were asking for more freedom and political influence.
Her excessive beauty rituals might seem very odd to modern people,but we have to keep in mind that most authoritarian royals used to spend ridiculous sums of money on clothes,jewellery and beauty.
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  #144  
Old 12-30-2011, 08:56 PM
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Crazy royals..well emperor Caligula and king George III comes to mind and czar Ivan of Russia who murdered his own son.
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  #145  
Old 12-31-2011, 06:52 PM
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I don't think Queen Ranavalona I of Madagascar has been mentioned. If stories about her are to be believed I think she qualifies for a mention in this thread.
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  #146  
Old 06-16-2012, 07:25 PM
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concerning George III and his descendants with porphyria

Tiaraprin, you have quoted a good source on King George's insanity. It was a shock to his family, as in youth he seemed to be fine, and had produced fifteen children, twelve of whom survived to adulthood, but few of whom had legitimate heirs. Another excellent book on royal porphyria is The Purple Secret, the author of which I don't remember now.

George's son, the Duke of Kent, may have given it to Queen Victoria, or it could as easily have come from her Hanoverian mother (I think her mother was Hanoverian?--at least she was a cousin of the Duke of Kent). The proof that either Victoria or Albert had it is in the DNA extracted (with permission and great thanks) from the bones of Victoria's daughter Vicki, and Vicki's daughter Charlotte. Proof positive that these ladies had Variegate Porphyria (VP).

In modern times, the best documented victim was the Duke of Gloucester, brother of the present Duke. He was not known to be insane in any way but his mother noted lesions on his face, and had him diagnosed by a British physician, and also he was dx'd in South America by a physician there, where he was a business attache. He died young in a plane accident. I have no evidence that his relatives, the present Duke of Gloucester, Richard, or his children or grandchildren are affected. Facial lesions sometimes appear in Variegate Porphyria, and are often induced by too much sun exposure.

As for Princess Margaret, that is a mystery. She did have "numb feet", which probably caused her to put her feet into too hot water, which contributed to her death (I am not clear in this case). Numb feet is common in patients with long standing Porphyria, due to permanent damage to the peripheral nerves by the toxic by products of a Porphyria attack. I have Porphyria of a different strain, Hereditary Coproporphyria, and my feet have been numb for years, but I'm still walking, and one reason I'm walking is that I learned what the basic triggers are, and how to avoid them, and I did avoid them now for about 16 years, since diagnosis (but I had gone many years prior to dx with symptoms). HCP may possibly be a strain in the Stuart royal family, but I do not know if they had a different strain than VP. Porphyria does mutate a LOT. That is a complete mystery at this time; it would be excellent if DNA studies could be done on Mary Queen of Scotts' relics. Mary could have gotten porphyria from several sources, including the Tudors as well as the Stuarts. The Tudor gene was probably brought to England by Katherine of Valois.

Many victims are NOT insane, as the disease affects different parts of the body and brain. I am sure the present day royals probably know all the triggers and avoid them assiduously. And are healthy and not crazy in most cases.

George III's case may have been triggered by arsenic in his powdered wig.
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  #147  
Old 06-23-2012, 09:55 PM
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I hadn't read the whole thread when I wrote this on Porphyria. I should have emphasized more that not all people with porphyria are "mad" in episodes like King George III. Some very normally mental people have it. It can affect any part of the body, including the brain, but does not always affect the brain. Charles VI of France was severely affected in the brain, and I think he gave it to the Tudors through his daughter Katherine of Valois.
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  #148  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:37 PM
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I am starting to wonder if Elizabeth Bathory was really insane or just a sociopath. They are 2 different things IMO, she reminds me a little of Henry VIII. People say he was mad or insane but he was a man who was given too much leeway and too much authority. When you are allowed to do whatever you want a majority of people will end up doing bad things. Similarly, Elizabeth was given too much power and freedom to do what she wanted and she abused it to the tenth power, but does that make her insane?
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  #149  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
Juana 'la Loca' was not so much insane but was in the way of her own father, and later her son - After her mothers death SHE was the righfull Queen - but her father didn't want to let her have any power - so she was locked away and it the story of her beeing mad was fabricated.

There are a lot of historic persons who where alowed zu visit her: there ist much evidence that she wasn't mad at all - at first she was very much upset by the death of her husband - but that was just all.
Other than the fact that Juana dragged her husband's corpse around for quite some time (not days) refusing to bury him......
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  #150  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:21 PM
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Other than the fact that Juana dragged her husband's corpse around for quite some time (not days) refusing to bury him......
FWIW, there's a really good podcast on Juana by the How Stuff Works/Stuff You Missed in History Class podcast.
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  #151  
Old 01-05-2013, 04:27 PM
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i think King Yeonsangun of Joseon (old Korea) had a bit of maddness in him, he was a tyrant and is considered the worst King that Joseon had.

his mother Lady Yoon proved to be temperamental and highly jealous of the other concubines living inside the palace, even trying to poisoning one. she even physically struck the King one night, leaving scratch marks.
After the truth was discovered, it was ordered by her mother-in-law to be sent to exile, she later died posioned.
this led to her son to do cruel things.

He killed one of his tutors, then he ordered the execution of the government officials belonging to a political faction called Sarim after they opposed him on an idea, he mutilated the remains of one of the officials. he later beat to death two of his father's concubines, his grandmother died while she was pushed away by him and ordered the grave of a certain official to be opened and the head cut off the corpse.
He also closed a royal university and converted it to his pleasure grounds, later also forced people into involuntary labor to build another pleasure ground.
One chief eunuch called Kim Cheo-sun entreated Yeonsangun to change his ways, but was killed by himself by shooting arrows and personally cutting off his limbs. also exiled a minister of rites for spilling a drink that he had poured. In the end seized a thousand women from the provinces to serve as palace entertainers.

even though he would act in his mother's justice, his insane revenge utimately transformed in a personal entertainment of extreme violance.
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  #152  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:15 PM
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Other than the fact that Juana dragged her husband's corpse around for quite some time (not days) refusing to bury him......
I'm sure glad Queen Victoria had not heard of this, and I'll bet her children and staff are mighty glad too.
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  #153  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:30 PM
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Other than the fact that Juana dragged her husband's corpse around for quite some time (not days) refusing to bury him......
Well, Maria Eleonora, the widow of king Gustav II Adolf of Sweden hung her dead husband's embalmed heart over her bed and forced her daughter queen Christina to sleep in the bed with her, and according to legend king Pedro I of Portugal exhumed the body of his dead mistress/queen Inés de Castro and forced the court to swear allegiance to her, and then reburied her in a monastery.

Juana was not the first, nor the last royal to go into excessive mourning after the death of her spouse.
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  #154  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:02 PM
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Well, Maria Eleonora, the widow of king Gustav II Adolf of Sweden hung her dead husband's embalmed heart over her bed and forced her daughter queen Christina to sleep in the bed with her, and according to legend king Pedro I of Portugal exhumed the body of his dead mistress/queen Inés de Castro and forced the court to swear allegiance to her, and then reburied her in a monastery.

Juana was not the first, nor the last royal to go into excessive mourning after the death of her spouse.
That is of course true. But I would consider it to be the hallmark of insanity regardless of the royal, when corpses are involved, not just 'excessive mourning'.
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  #155  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:31 PM
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That is of course true. But I would consider it to be the hallmark of insanity regardless of the royal, when corpses are involved, not just 'excessive mourning'.
Um, yeah, gonna be hard to argue with this.....
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  #156  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:33 PM
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Yes, taking the mourning just a tad beyond normal grieving, I'd say.
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  #157  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:35 PM
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  #158  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:28 PM
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I am aware of that, thank you, still he had mental issues (hallucinations and paranoia) due to his desease.
I think in a hospital today, he would clearly be diagnosed as mentally altered, regardless of the cause.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:57 PM
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Not sure which royal household it was but this story supposedly happened in Hungary. There was a couple of Eastern European royals back in the 16th or 17th century that liked to drink blood. I believe they had the title of Count or Countess. This was on a TV show about vampires and people who like to drink blood.

They got the blood by cutting themselves and cutting others. They drank their own blood and the blood of servants or those who were of low social-economic status and did this for quite a while. Most of these people were also tortured and some of the woman were sexually assaulted. I think a couple of these individuals were also murdered. I believe one of these royals either killed their spouse with the help of their lover.

These royals would probably be the most insane if you ask me.

It was unclear what happened to these individuals when this came out. One story has it that they were put to death by family members embarrassed over their activities. Another story said that they were deemed mentally ill and locked up for the rest of their lives.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:03 AM
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nascarlucy, you are probably speaking of Vlad the Impaler and his cousin Elizabeth Bathory. In those days the borders of Hungary, Romania, and Czech kept getting changed, and ruling houses changed, so I am not sure exactly which country Vlad lived in. Prince Charles says he is descended from Vlad.

Because these royals drank blood of humans, they have been held up as vampires. I believe this is absolute nonsense. They were what others on this thread has called sociopaths. Truly evil.

Elizabeth was imprisoned and died within two years. i am not sure what happened to Vlad but it probably was as bad as the rest of his life. At one time, though Vlad was esteemed because he was a successful leader in wartime.
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