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Old 10-06-2014, 06:53 PM
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Titles From The Middle Ages

I am doing my Ancestry and have come across Royalty. I'm finding Ruling Queens marring Princes or dukes or a titled person from another country. Then they list them as King of her country. Is this how it was back then, the man took over from his wife the queen or is it an error? Would he be King consort? Is there such a thing as King consorts? If not what would they have been called?


Example:
Joachim I Nestor King consort of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Brandenburg, Elector of Germany 1484-1535
Elisabeth Queen of Denmark Sweden Norway 1485-1555
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:32 AM
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My understanding is that they became Prince Consorts like Prince Albert with Queen Victoria and Prince Phillip with Queen Elizabeth II.

I suspect that this is a British thing though as Victoria was keen to have Albert become king, but Parliament refused. Downside of being s constitutional monarchy I suppose...
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
I am doing my Ancestry and have come across Royalty. I'm finding Ruling Queens marring Princes or dukes or a titled person from another country. Then they list them as King of her country. Is this how it was back then, the man took over from his wife the queen or is it an error? Would he be King consort? Is there such a thing as King consorts? If not what would they have been called?


Example:
Joachim I Nestor King consort of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Brandenburg, Elector of Germany 1484-1535
Elisabeth Queen of Denmark Sweden Norway 1485-1555
Joachim and Elisabeth were never queen/king of Denmark/Sweden/Norway. They were simply elector/electress of Brandenberg. Elisabeth's father was king until 1513 and was succeeded by her elder brother Christian II who died four years after Elisabeth did. Elisabeth was Princess of Denmark, Sweden and Norway, Electress of Brandenberg. Her husband never had any Scandinavian title.


The cases where a woman inherited the throne in her own right are minimal. And it differs between countries.

in the UK Elizabeth I didn't wish to marry in part as she feared losing power to her husband. In the UK, traditionally power and titles from a woman would pass to her husband. But this has never been the case in the UK.

they have handled it one of two ways:

A couple rule jointly as queen and king, they share power. Neither as consort:

-Mary I and Philip had this arrangement but only during her lifetime. When she died, he lost his place as king of England (why he wanted to wed her sister after she died)

-Mary II and William: Ruled jointly. But unlike Philip, William was allowed to retain his position when his wife died. But Anne and her children were their heirs. If William remarried and had children after Mary died, his children would not come before Anne.

Or a queen ruled and with her husband given a lower/no title:
-Empress Mathilda: was disputed, but her husband never had a title
-Anne: Her husband remained George of Denmark, Duke of Cumberland
-Victoria: Albert was made Prince Consort
-Elizabeth II: Philip was made Duke of Edinburgh

Sweden has had three queens:

-Margaret was a widow, took the throne after her husband and son died.
-Christina never married
-Ulrika wanted her husband to be co-ruler, he was prince consort originally. When parliament refused, she abdicated in his favor, so he could be king, and she became queen consort.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by StyleObsessed View Post
My understanding is that they became Prince Consorts like Prince Albert with Queen Victoria and Prince Phillip with Queen Elizabeth II.

I suspect that this is a British thing though as Victoria was keen to have Albert become king, but Parliament refused. Downside of being s constitutional monarchy I suppose...
Actually, Phillip does not have the title of Prince Consort. He was created the Duke of Edinburgh the day before his wedding, and his wife made him a Prince of the United Kingdom a decade later, but he was never given the title of Prince Consort. In the United Kingdom, there is no automatic title given to the spouse of a Queen Regnant; the title given to said spouse, if any at all, is entirely dependent upon the will of the Crown.

I'm only aware of two men who have been given the title of Prince Consort of any country: Albert, Prince Consort of the United Kingdom and Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark (though Henrik renounced the title a couple of years before his death).
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:23 AM
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-Christina never married
Queen Christina was officially titled "Her Majesty The King". She was greeted by the Archbishop at her coronation with the biblical words "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". Once she had been anointed it was acclaimed by a herald that "Now Queen Christina is crowned King of the realms of Svea and Göta and thereto associated provinces. She and no one else"
A year earlier Queen Christina had explained her refusal to marry to the Royal council by saying that if she married her high rank and unique status as a monarch would be lost because she as a woman would be subject to her husband.

I believe that there are a few other queens in their own right that was officially given the title of king. Among them Queen Maria of Hungary who was crowned king in 1382
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:37 AM
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Actually, Phillip does not have the title of Prince Consort. He was created the Duke of Edinburgh the day before his wedding, and his wife made him a Prince of the United Kingdom a decade later, but he was never given the title of Prince Consort. In the United Kingdom, there is no automatic title given to the spouse of a Queen Regnant; the title given to said spouse, if any at all, is entirely dependent upon the will of the Crown.

I'm only aware of two men who have been given the title of Prince Consort of any country: Albert, Prince Consort of the United Kingdom and Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark (though Henrik renounced the title a couple of years before his death).
I think you missed the fact that Prince Claus also held the title Prince Consort of the Netherlands.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
I am doing my Ancestry and have come across Royalty. I'm finding Ruling Queens marring Princes or dukes or a titled person from another country. Then they list them as King of her country. Is this how it was back then, the man took over from his wife the queen or is it an error? Would he be King consort? Is there such a thing as King consorts? If not what would they have been called?


Example:
Joachim I Nestor King consort of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Brandenburg, Elector of Germany 1484-1535
Elisabeth Queen of Denmark Sweden Norway 1485-1555
There is one in Spain. The last Queen Regnant of Spain, Queen Isabella II who married her double-cousin Francis, Duke of Cádiz, was made King Consort from 1846-1870.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Queen Christina was officially titled "Her Majesty The King". She was greeted by the Archbishop at her coronation with the biblical words "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". Once she had been anointed it was acclaimed by a herald that "Now Queen Christina is crowned King of the realms of Svea and Göta and thereto associated provinces. She and no one else"
A year earlier Queen Christina had explained her refusal to marry to the Royal council by saying that if she married her high rank and unique status as a monarch would be lost because she as a woman would be subject to her husband.

I believe that there are a few other queens in their own right that was officially given the title of king. Among them Queen Maria of Hungary who was crowned king in 1382
There were often problems with the husbands of Queens Regnant attempting to usurp political power from their wives, so it was sometimes necessary to add some extra measures to ensure that the message was imparted loud and clear that the wife was a regnant monarch. Accordingly, some kingdoms did indeed crown their queens regnant as Kings.

Another extra measure occurred in the Kingdom of Jerusalem. None of Jerusalem's queens regnant were crowned as Kings (they all held the title of Queen), but the literal grandmother of all of the Queens Regnant of Jerusalem was the beneficiary of some different measures. Queen Melisende was crowned in multiple coronations to drive the message across: First, her father, Baldwin II, insisted on having her crowned as his heir at his own coronation. Next, after her son was born, she was crowned together with her husband and son. She was crowned again with her husband after her father died, and yet again with her son after her husband died.

Another thing that Baldwin II did was, before he died, made sure that the Haute Cour of Jerusalem was packed with loyalists who would support Melisende in the event that Fulk attempted to usurp her.

Adding to that, Baldwin II also gave Melisende an education that, far from exceeding the average education of a woman in those days, exceeded the educations given to most royal men in quality. Though, it helped that she had an innate love of learning and a superb natural intellect. Combined with the education her father secured for her and her natural talent, Melisende was easily the most intelligent and wisest monarch the Kingdom of Jerusalem ever had, which served her well up until the point when the Council of Acre decided to ignore her, Manasses of Hierges (the Constable of Jerusalem) and Eleanor of Acquitaine when they reasoned that it would be a bad idea to attack the Emirate of Damascus (with which the Kingdom of Jerusalem had a peace treaty and fairly good diplomatic relations), and would probably be a better idea to attack the Emirate of Aleppo (which would have made sense, since the whole point of the exercise was to respond to the County of Edessa being overrun).

Unfortunately for Melisende's descendants, every one of them who ended up with the Crown of Jerusalem on their heads had to deal with the consequences of the Council of Acre's refusal to listen to her, as attacking Damascus ended up permanently eliminating any chance of any of the Muslim powers ever again trusting the Crusader states, and weakening Damascus while not attacking Aleppo allowed Aleppo, under Nur al-Din, to become more powerful by taking Damascus, which later became an even bigger problem for Jerusalem when Saladin took the emirates of Aleppo and Damascus from Nur al-Din's successors. Saladin ended up taking the City of Jerusalem itself in 1187, and the Kingdom of Jerusalem ceased to exist a little more than a century after that when the Mamluks overran its final stronghold at (what do you know) Acre.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:40 AM
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In Spain and in Portugal, the husband of the reigning Queen was titled King but , in Portugal, only after the Queen had given birth to an heir. Since 1987, the official rule is, however, that the husband of the Queen of Soain is just a Prince , breaking therefore with the old Spanish tradition.

In England and Scotland, the husband of the Queen was also the king in the 16th century, but not later than that. Neither Queen Anne’s nor Queen Victoria’s husbands had the title of king.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
In England and Scotland, the husband of the Queen was also the king in the 16th century, but not later than that.
Philip wasn't a King Consort, though. Mary I of England outright gave Philip the Crown Matrimonial as a part of their wedding contract, making him a full co-monarch.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:48 PM
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Philip was also a King in his own right as prior to the wedding his father the Holy Roman Emperor made him King of Naples ,making Mary also queen consort of Naples upon marriage.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Philip was also a King in his own right as prior to the wedding his father the Holy Roman Emperor made him King of Naples ,making Mary also queen consort of Naples upon marriage.
True. Either way, calling Philip a King Consort of England would be like calling Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II a King Consort of Jerusalem.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:56 PM
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I think you missed the fact that Prince Claus also held the title Prince Consort of the Netherlands.
In what year did Prince Claus receive the title of Prince Consort of The Netherlands?
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by theroyalfly View Post
I think you missed the fact that Prince Claus also held the title Prince Consort of the Netherlands.
I thought that Prince Claus had a similar situation to the Duke of Edinburgh, that being that he was colloquially known as a Prince Consort without actually having been granted the title. It's entirely possible that I was mistaken, though, as my knowledge with respect to the Dutch monarchy is kind of scant.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:35 PM
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Incidentally, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom lucked out quite a bit in finding, in the Duke of Edinburgh, a spouse who is willing to settle.

Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark, for example, was extremely bitter about the fact that he was not given the title of King Consort of Denmark. This is why Henrik renounced the title of Prince Consort of Denmark a couple years before he died, and why he refused to be buried at Roskilde Cathedral. He also hated it when the Crown Prince Frederik would be called in to substitute for Queen Margrethe II, feeling that as consort he (Henrik) should have been the one to represent the Queen. For instance, back in 2002, there was an incident where Henrik stomped off to go sulk in France because he was offended that Frederik had been appointed host of a New Years' Day reception in the Queen's stead.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy Thompson View Post
I thought that Prince Claus had a similar situation to the Duke of Edinburgh, that being that he was colloquially known as a Prince Consort without actually having been granted the title. It's entirely possible that I was mistaken, though, as my knowledge with respect to the Dutch monarchy is kind of scant.

Traditionally both Prince Henry and Prince Bernard received the substantive title "The Prince of the Netherlands" upon their wife's accession to the throne. As with Prince Claus, he abandoned that title in respect for his predecessor Prince Bernard upon Princess Beatrix accession in 1980. Informally, he was called Prince Consort.

https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/onderw...klijke-familie

The Mad Monarchist: Consort Profile: Prince Claus of the Netherlands
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
In what year did Prince Claus receive the title of Prince Consort of The Netherlands?
He didn't really formally receive the title "The Prince Consort of the Netherlands" but informally he was called the Prince-consort. This is due to the fact that he abandoned the substantive title "The Prince of the Netherlands" (that was traditionally conferred to consorts of Queens in the Netherlands; both Henry and Bernhard used this subtantive title) upon Princess Beatrix's accession to the throne in 1980 in respect to his predecessor Prince Bernhard.

https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/onderw...klijke-familie

The Mad Monarchist: Consort Profile: Prince Claus of the Netherlands
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:59 AM
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Wikipedia has a list of European orders of chilvary established before the year 1500, see list below.




Only two of the orders listed above, namely the Order of the Garter and the Order of the Golden Fleece, are still awarded by a reigning European monarchy, respectively the British monarch and the King of Spain. The medieval Portuguese orders such as the Order of Christ and the Order of the Tower and Sword, despite being no longer royal orders, are nonetheless still awarded by the President of the Portuguese Republic.



Could anybody please clarify the current status of the ancient Spanish military orders (Alcantara, Calatrava, Santiago, Montesa) ?
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:01 PM
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Only two of the orders listed above, namely the Order of the Garter and the Order of the Golden Fleece, are still awarded by a reigning European monarchy, respectively the British monarch and the King of Spain.
The Order of the Holy Sepulchre is still awarded by the Pope, who kind of is an elective monarch.
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