The Real Names Of The Royal Families

[royal005]

Does anybody know the name of the Bristish Royal House before it was changed to Winsor

[magnik]

Originally Posted by royal005

Does anybody know the name of the Bristish Royal House before it was changed to Winsor

Before Prince Albert of Hannover, after Albert of Saxe-Cburg-Gotha or Wettin.
"The House of Windsor, previously known as the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, is the Royal House of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland etc.
The German name had come via Queen Victoria's marriage to Prince Albert, son of Duke Erns I of SCandG, in February 1840. Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, however, wasn't the Prince Consort's personal surname, but the territory ruled by his family; his house, and possibly even his surname, was Wettin."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor

[royal005]

After Albert of hannover, i guess Saxe-couburg-gotha was before Winsor but why did they have that name when it was Queen Victoria on the throne, cause if it goes like that then the Royal house should be Moutbatten, shouldnt it?

[magnik]

Originally Posted by royal005

After Albert of hannover, i guess Saxe-couburg-gotha was before Winsor but why did they have that name when it was Queen Victoria on the throne, cause if it goes like that then the Royal house should be Moutbatten, shouldnt it?

Mountbatten-Windsor is the personal surname of some of the descendants of Queen Elizabeth II and Duke of Edinburgh. The official name of the British RF or Royal Houseis Windsor.
The change of surname does not apply to members of the RF who are not descended from the Queen. The Order specifically applies the surname to those descendants of the EII not holding Royal styles and titles but in practice it is used by all the British Royal Family descended from Queen as their surname, as shown at the marriages of the Prince Andrew and the Princess Anne, when both used Mountbatten-Windsor in their entries in the marriage registers.

More about royal surnames http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3379.asp

[jaynecman]

Originally Posted by tiaraprin

Must correct the British Royal Family name--it is Mountbatten-Windsor. when Princess Anne married the first time, she was registered as Anne Mountbatten-Windsor.

prince andrew also used this name when he got married. i think the brf only use their surname when absolutely nessisary

the brf surname was origionaly honnover prince albert was from saxe-coberg-gotha an area that is in the germany area i think. the changed it because of the wars against germany so they changed to windsor - when philip was granted british nationality/citizenship he changed his name to mountbatten the brf have been known as windsor for a while but genrally use mountbatten windsor if absolutly nessisery only peter and zara phillips and i think the kents and gloucters? dont use this name

Originally Posted by Sean.~

Prior to 1917 the British Royal House was that of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (from where Prince Albert, spouse of Queen Victoria, hailed). In 1917, after WWI, the house name was changed to Windsor from the Germanic Saxe-Coburg-Gotha due to anti-German sentiment. Windsor was chosen because the ancient castle was seen as a British bastion, etc. , and thus what name could be more British than that?
Hope that all makes sense.

it does make sense

Originally Posted by magnik

Mountbatten-Windsor is the personal surname of some of the descendants of Queen Elizabeth II and Duke of Edinburgh. The official name of the British RF or Royal Houseis Windsor.
The change of surname does not apply to members of the RF who are not descended from the Queen. The Order specifically applies the surname to those descendants of the EII not holding Royal styles and titles but in practice it is used by all the British Royal Family descended from Queen as their surname, as shown at the marriages of the Prince Andrew and the Princess Anne, when both used Mountbatten-Windsor in their entries in the marriage registers.

More about royal surnames http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3379.asp

unless something really drastic happens to william harry and charles i think edwards kids will use mountbatten windsor when the time comes for them to have familys of their own.

sorry for the long post

[Furienna]

This was an interesting thread, even if I still don't understand the difference between the house name and the family name.

[magnik]

Originally Posted by Furienna

This was an interesting thread, even if I still don't understand the difference between the house name and the family name.

Family name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name

[Furienna]

If I have understood this correctly, the family name is what is used in official records, like on a passport or on an ID card, while the house name "only" indicates the royal's origin and is rarely used?

[hilal]

Bahrain: Al-Khalifa Dynasty
Brazil: Braganza Dynasty
Cambodia: Varman Dynasty
Egypt: Muhammad 'Ali Dynasty
Iran: Pahlavi Dynasty
Iraq: Al-Hashimi Dynasty
Jordan: Al-Hashimi Dynasty
Kuwait: Al-Sabah Dynasty
Morocco: Alawi Dynasty
Oman: Al-Busaid Dynasty
Turkey: Imperial House of Osman
Persia: Qajar Dynasty
Qatar: Al-Thani Dynasty
Tunisia: Husainid Dynasty
Yemen: al-Qasimi Dynasty

[Prince of Chota]

It is a bit odd, though. Neither Mountbatten nor Windsor are the hereditary names of the family. (Prince Charles, for example, still belongs to the House of Greece and Denmark according to Salic law)... "Mountbatten" is "Battenberg," but from the duke's mother's family..."Windsor" is a complete fabrication... It sort of reminds me of the way that Asian dynasties assume dynastic names upon ascending the throne. (such as Q'ing in China or Sho in Ryukyu).

[LadyCat]

I think George V can be forgiven for his little name "fabrication" as Great Britain was embroiled in WWI against Germany at the time. Since the English developed quite a dislike for all things German, including his "family" name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, it was a rather prudent move on his part. Hats off to his secretary for coming up with Windsor!

As far as the other royal last names, I thought Norway's Oldenberg was a house/place name and not a true surname. The only surnames I am absolutely certain of are Bernodotte (Sweden) and Bonaparte (French). I don't know enough of Russian royalty to opine as to the Romanov name, but as Princess Dagmar (Minny) of Denmark was renamed Maria Fedorovna (sp?) upon her marriage to Alexander, it can be documented that they were prone to name changes.

Cat

[Lakshmi]

It's very interesting thread, I was always wondering about "real" names of royals. Leslie2006 and others thank you for putting this all together.
I have a question about Japan's royal. Unless I missed something it was stated here that they don't have last name. But don't they have passports, didn't they go to study abroad, so what name they used?

[LadyCat]

I completely forgot about the Grimaldis of Monaco and the Stuarts of Scotland! Obviousy true surnames.

The other lastnames/surnames all appear to be place names (de Nassua is obviously of Nassua) wth the possible exceptions of Oldenburg and Wettin, those two I have no clue about. To my knowledge, most royal houses don't really have a surname, with the few exceptions noted, but "place names" or "house names". This practice seems to go back for centuries to the point that these names are considered surnames.

Cat

[Warren]

Oldenburg (originally Aldenburg) is the name of the county in Germany from whence the current Oldenburgs, Schleswig-Holsteins etc descend.
Wettin comes from the name of a castle acquired by the family in the 11th century.

[Jo of Palatine]

I think the "problem" is that most families we are discussing here date back into historical times when the idea of a "last name" did simply not exist.

People took their names from the place they came from or from their profession to be distinguished from others. As the world most people lived in was small, more information wasn't needed. Anybody in the vincinity of someone's birthplace could identify Robert the Miller or Wilhelm the Archer.

The Lord of a region took his name from his keep: Rudolf of Habsburg was Lord of Habsburg Castle. The Wittelsbach owned Wittelsbach Castle in Oberwittelsbach close to Augsburg in Bavaria around 900 AD. Once a member of the family ruling a "tribal castle" like that of Wittelbach earned a feudal title to service for the ruler of his country, he either took over the new title or added it to his old lordship. So a Wittelsbach allegedly was given the County of Scheyern (in which Wittelsbach Castle is situation) and started calling himself Count of Scheyern. Younger sons inherited after their father's death a smaller holding and took their name from that, founding new lines of the "House". Or he married an heiress and added her lands to his, adding her titles to his. He then styled himself as "Count of X" from the Family Lineage of Wittelsbach. But that's not a family name, really, it only told where the family, the "House", originally had risen to prominence.

But time advanced and the art of writing was taught to more and more people serving the rulers. And with the knowledge of writing documents became important as they offered a better possibility to prove claims.
With it, people tried to make their relations clear in order to settle inheritances etc. Thus, the way a Lord related to a family became more important. While this was true even to the Upper Nobility, it wasn't necessary for the ruling families. Some none-the-less decided to use the name of their family lineage or House as a family name, while others were content to be known by the lands they were holding.

So while all ruling families derived from the "House of Oldenburg" (which is the family who rose to prominence in the Oldenburg area of Northern Germany) are identifiable by their realm (former or current), it doesn't mean that Oldenburg is their family name, it only serves to identify their family lineage.

I hope it is clearer now. So in any case you have to look for official documents where a ruler decided to make his family identifiable officially by a family name. If there isn't such a document, then the family doesn't have a family name. They are then simply of the lineage of the lords of Wittelsbach, of Wettin, of Oldenburg, of Hohenzollern, of Habsburg. Because that's where their "famous" family started from.

[Prince of Chota]

Sure, many royal houses take their names from their dominions, but so do many of the names common people hold as well. If one took a sample of commoners anywhere, some would have place-derived names, and others would have names derived from occupations or patriarchs' names. It is interesting that in some cultures, like Francophone ones, a manorial name is preferred to a familial one. So, for example, the Viscounts Carpentier de Changy would use the surname "de Changy", etc.

[Behiç Giray]

Crimean Tatar : Giray(Turkish), Geray(Crimean Tatar), Girey(Russian), Kerey(Mongolian)

[Mari_*]

According to Greece and Denmark I've always read that it is:

Greece: Schleswig - Holstein
Denmark: Sondeburg - Glucksburg

Is that right?

[Alison20]

I think there is generally some confusion about these names. At the time the Queen decided to honour Philip by the addition of Windsor the received interpretation was that this would only be for the non-royal decendants of Pr Andrew and Pr Edward. There was therefore surprise when Pss Anne married and used Mountbatten Windsor. Since Pr Andrew has no sons there will be no MWs there, but I understand that since Pr E decided not to accept royal style for his children their surnames are MW. Pr Charles and Wm and H are supposed to be just Windsor, but any non royal descendants may well also be MW.

[lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Mari_*

According to Greece and Denmark I've always read that it is:

Greece: Schleswig - Holstein
Denmark: Sondeburg - Glucksburg

Is that right?

Denmark was Glucksburg before Queen Margrethe changed the house name to Laborde De Monpezat.

Greece is the House of Glucksburg.