The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 12-07-2009, 07:36 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: mexico, Mexico
Posts: 291
The Origins of Monarchy

ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:25 PM
Soli Deo Gloria's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: *, Sweden
Posts: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by marian View Post
ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY?
Some people back in the history would answer the question of the origin of monarch with just one word: God.

But from a Biblical (Jewish-Christian) point of wiew I cant find that 100% correct...
In the old testament (first part of the Bible) we can read about the first king of Israel: Saul (Books of Samuel). He became king because the people wanted a king.
God didnt want to give them a king because God didnt think they needed a king, because God was their king and wanted to remain as their king
But the people said: please give us a king, please give us a king, please give us a king, please, please, please...(and so on)
And finally God said: OK,OK ,OK, I will give you a king... And so they got Saul.

From this we can see two things:
1) God did not think it was nessesary with a (another) king
2) the people knew what a king was... They had probably learned it from other people/countrys "in the neigborhood"
For example: At that time they was back from the slavery in Egypth, and in Egypth there was a king (Pharao), so its clear they had a pretty good picture of what a king was...

On the other hand St Paul (I think) is telling that all authority is from God (someting like that) so its not a easy question...

But the historical answer is more about wealth and high culture coming from a rich agriculture. If you have wealth and a rich agriculture some people can afford to not work... and instead spend time ruling...(or fooling around)
So maybe thats the answer...
I mean for example Egypth is an good example of this... rich soils by the Nile - early culture- early kingdom...
I can compare to my own deep frozen poor country where we got our first king(s) around 800 a.c (Vikings!)...
__________________

__________________
"Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body" (Ecclesiastes 12:12)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:25 PM
Tilia C.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: O, Germany
Posts: 1,627
In pre-historic times, when people were living in large family groups or tribes, it became obvious that some people were more skillful and knowledgeable. These people became natural leaders of their group. They passed down their knowledge and skills to the next generation, and of course their own children were in the best position to learn from their parents. So knowledge, which also meant power, was passed down within families. Later on, when the hunter and gatherer societies turned to farming and settled down, land, which also meant power and wealth, was added to the assets of leadership. Over time this concept of leadership became formalized, titles and rules for the succession were invented. In the beginning, leadership had a lot to do with priesthood. Like in Egypt, where the first Pharaohs were able to predict the yearly floods because of their astronomical knowledge. Since science and supernatural beliefs and religion where not separated at the time, these knowledgeable people were seen as divine, children of the gods, or something like it. E. g. the Japanese emperors claim to decent from the goddess Amaterasu. The first Christian King of the Francs was Clovis. Before he went to a certain battle, he promised god that he would be baptized if he won the battle. Well, he did win and became a Christian. Of course he thought that he won with godís help. So the people at the time could only interpret it as godís will that he should be king: to them royalty came from god.
This is a very basic explanation, but I don't happen to be a historian.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-10-2010, 12:34 AM
Shikha Pal's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 728
Question How did Royalty start? and when?

I have always been curious to know how and when did Royalty start all over the world?.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:53 AM
Leslie2006's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, United States
Posts: 445
Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing it started when man started walking on two legs, and then became more organized as time went on, until you get into the preteen centuries where it changed to someone was chosen as ruler and only his direct descendants could rule after him, ect.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:04 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127
Are you talking about royalty in general or specific royal families?

BRF family tree all the way back to William the Conquerer
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...yal_Family.JPG

However the first person to claim himself "King of The English" was Offa of Mercia.
Wales came under the crown in 1245, and England and Scotland were united by James 1.
List of English monarchs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-10-2010, 12:08 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie2006 View Post
Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing it started when man started walking on two legs, and then became more organized as time went on, until you get into the preteen centuries where it changed to someone was chosen as ruler and only his direct descendants could rule after him, ect.
You got it. They had the weapons and created "little fifedoms", then they gathered more men about them to fight the other "little fifedoms" and the winners tooks charge of the losers lands and so on and so forth. Then they sought the church to say that God wanted them to rule and so, "Divine Right" and people had no education and were frightened of the people down the road, so they clung to being "protected" by these strong men. and eventually, the system evolved. The more educated the people, the less likely the awe.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:41 PM
Smart's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 50
Royalty likely began with the advent of cities in the Levant - such as Byblos. The most powerful commander and leader became "King".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Some people back in the history would answer the question of the origin of monarch with just one word: God.

But from a Biblical (Jewish-Christian) point of wiew I cant find that 100% correct...
In the old testament (first part of the Bible) we can read about the first king of Israel: Saul (Books of Samuel). He became king because the people wanted a king.
God didnt want to give them a king because God didnt think they needed a king, because God was their king and wanted to remain as their king
But the people said: please give us a king, please give us a king, please give us a king, please, please, please...(and so on)
And finally God said: OK,OK ,OK, I will give you a king... And so they got Saul.

From this we can see two things:
1) God did not think it was nessesary with a (another) king
2) the people knew what a king was... They had probably learned it from other people/countrys "in the neigborhood"
For example: At that time they was back from the slavery in Egypth, and in Egypth there was a king (Pharao), so its clear they had a pretty good picture of what a king was...

On the other hand St Paul (I think) is telling that all authority is from God (someting like that) so its not a easy question...

But the historical answer is more about wealth and high culture coming from a rich agriculture. If you have wealth and a rich agriculture some people can afford to not work... and instead spend time ruling...(or fooling around)
So maybe thats the answer...
I mean for example Egypth is an good example of this... rich soils by the Nile - early culture- early kingdom...
I can compare to my own deep frozen poor country where we got our first king(s) around 800 a.c (Vikings!)...
Considering Jesus' title is haMoshiach (the Anointed One) - a title (Moshiach) given to only Kings and Priests, it's quite clear from the Christian POV there's only one King, all others receive power from him.
__________________
Supporter of global Republicanism and the Abolition of all Monarchies. With special attention to the Windsors.
Quote:
There! His Majesty can now read my name without glasses. And he can double the reward on my head!
-John Hancock, upon signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:02 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 73
The King is elected by the people* from the suitable candidates* for life or the life of the dynasty, that's the way it been in Sweden longer than our recorded history.




* definition of the people and needed qualification for suitable candidates have changed over the centuries.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Smart's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 50
No. Sweden is not an elected Monarchy, and has not been in many centuries. It is hereditary.
__________________
Supporter of global Republicanism and the Abolition of all Monarchies. With special attention to the Windsors.
Quote:
There! His Majesty can now read my name without glasses. And he can double the reward on my head!
-John Hancock, upon signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-25-2010, 07:01 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
No. Sweden is not an elected Monarchy, and has not been in many centuries. It is hereditary.
Nope. Last elected was Johan XIV he and his decentes was elected for the lifetime of the dynasty. Same have been true for ever dynasty we had since Gustav Vasa before that we elected Kings just for life.
Sweden use the term hereditary Monarcy since the normal use for that term is that each king is elected we changed that during Gustav Vasa.
But still, for example the house of Windsor goes extinct the crown would go to a distant relative, if the House or Bernadotte (or actullay just the Royal family) would go extinct the Crown would revert to the Riksdag to elected a new dyansti (as have happend a few timea since Gustav Vasa).

Edit: missed a ,
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-25-2010, 04:32 PM
Smart's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 50
I'm pretty sure there are other royals who are closer to the UK Throne than the Bernadottes.
__________________
Supporter of global Republicanism and the Abolition of all Monarchies. With special attention to the Windsors.
Quote:
There! His Majesty can now read my name without glasses. And he can double the reward on my head!
-John Hancock, upon signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-25-2010, 05:01 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127
The Swedish royals start at 202 and end at 229 in the order of succesion to the British throne.
First comes Norway, then Romania, then Yugoslavia, then Russia, then Germany.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-02-2011, 07:37 PM
IloveCP's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Palm Springs, United States
Posts: 4,918
I read on wiki that the first monarchy ever was Egypt in 3500 BC.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-02-2011, 08:04 PM
doric44's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: toronto, Canada
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
I read on wiki that the first monarchy ever was Egypt in 3500 BC.
oh im pretty sure they go back farther than that, as soon as man started to gather into large farming societys from hunter gatherer groups.
they started forming societial hierarchys and kings and royalty formed from those groups
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-03-2011, 12:48 AM
norenxaq's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: La jolla, United States
Posts: 83
recorded history began in Egypt and Sumer about the same time, so which group of kings is older is a matter of debate. as for the institution, it predates the written record
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:01 AM
PrincessKaimi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hilo, Malibu, United States
Posts: 1,325
Good thread. Sometimes the Scorpion King is credited with being the first king.

I was wondering what the etymology of the English word "king" is. Various words are translated into English as "king" (rex in Latin of course), and I know it's vaguely Germanic - so did it come in with The Saxons?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-19-2011, 03:48 PM
Grandduchess24's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, United States
Posts: 1,318
Well i guess I could say that they have to be a descendent of the founder of the royal house in some way except the imperial family of japan who claim to be the decedents of a goddess-amaterarsu- and the first emperor of japan.
__________________
" An ugly baby is a very nasty object, and the prettiest is frightful when undressed."
- Queen Victoria
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-21-2011, 12:28 PM
RubyPrincess168's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sun Prairie, United States
Posts: 1,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by marian View Post
ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY?
I'm going to guess that the biggest, scariest barrbarian-bully who was really good with his club decided he was going to be the first leader/monarch.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-22-2011, 03:27 AM
norenxaq's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: La jolla, United States
Posts: 83
divine origin in some regard is relatively common among royal houses, thus the Japanese are not particularly unique with this
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania Benjamin The Royal Family of Romania 566 09-06-2014 03:58 PM
Prime Ministers, Political Advisers and the Powers & Prerogatives of the Monarch BeatrixFan Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 180 07-31-2014 05:40 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games olympics ottoman picture of the month poland pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]