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  #61  
Old 07-25-2015, 06:56 PM
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It also happens in Northern Europe. This picture was made in the Agnes Church in Amsterdam, a few months ago.
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:15 PM
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Isn't the Village Church in Wassenaar a Protestant church ?

I'm surprised to see Willem-Alexander with Máxima in so many Catholic masses. Is the PKN upset about that ?
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  #63  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:41 AM
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Sisters TRH Princesses Irene and Christina of the Netherlands both converted to Catholicism prior to each of their marriages. Princess Charlene of Monaco was also a Roman Catholic convert prior to her marriage.

Queen Sofia of Spain (nee Princess of Greece and Denmark) also converted to Catholicism (from Greek Orthodox); whereas her cousins, The Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark) and the Duchess of Kent (Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark), who were also raised Greek Orthodox, converted to Anglicanism after marrying into the BRF.

Queen Frederica went from Lutheran to Greek Orthodox after her marriage to King Pavlos of Greece.

King Henry VIII was baptized Roman Catholic as an infant and died as the Head of the Church of England.
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  #64  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Isn't the Village Church in Wassenaar a Protestant church ?

I'm surprised to see Willem-Alexander with Máxima in so many Catholic masses. Is the PKN upset about that ?
Out of curiosity, why would they be?
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  #65  
Old 12-13-2015, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Isn't the Village Church in Wassenaar a Protestant church ?

I'm surprised to see Willem-Alexander with Máxima in so many Catholic masses. Is the PKN upset about that ?
Certainly not, they were mostly 'work - or family related' events. The PKN is a merger of several protestant groups that happened a few years ago. However, some orthodox protestants immidiately seperated from the PKN and set up their own shop once again (Restaured reformed church is the most well known). Others never agreed with the merger in the first place such as the Bonders (Reformed Union).

As they say: if you put two Dutchmen together they start a church, if you put three of them together they will have a schism.

At the time of the wedding of prince Maurits the political party of the orthodox protestants (that only recently allowed women to be electable) still abstained from voting but they did vote in favor of the wedding of the prince of Orange to Maxima Zorreguieta. Perhaps it helped that during the engagement interview the crown prince guarenteed that his children would be raised as protestants. 'the house of Orange will remain protestant' he literally said. And Maxima said she would look forward to study protestantism. I suppose it was hoped she would convert at a later date. She never did.

The village church of Wassenaar is indeed protestant. It is known that the family visits this church privately too, nothing is known about them attending catholic services in private.
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  #66  
Old 12-13-2015, 03:47 AM
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Let us not forget that the Roman-Catholic Church and the Protestant Church are two denominations in the very same Christian Faith. It is all not that shockingly different.

I think that Queen Máxima has learned to appreciate Protestantism but remained attached to the Church of Rome. And that is her good right. The constitutional Freedom of Faith counts for all residents in the kingdom of the Netherlands. The King himself included, by the way.
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  #67  
Old 12-13-2015, 04:07 AM
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When Anna Paulovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia, married with the Protestant Prince of Orange (later King Willem II of the Netherlands) she formally converted to Protestantism.

In reality however Anna Paulovna remained faithful to her Orthodox faith. In the park of Soestdijk Palace, at the White Palace (Kneuterdijk Palace) in The Hague, at the Palace of the Prince of Orange in Brussels and at Sorghvliet House in The Hague, Orthodox chapels with iconostases were erected for her.

Her Will had a clausule about her chapel: “Article 8 dispositions relatives à ma chapelle et à ma sépulture. Il a toujours été d’usage qu’il a eu une Eglise du rit Greco-Russe près de la tombe des Grandes-Duchesses de Russie mortes et ensevelies à l’étranger. C’est donc dans la chapelle qui restera après moi dans les Pays-Bas, que je désire que soient conservés les vases sacrés et autres objecs destinés au culte divin, de même que les chasubles, sans en pouvoir jamais rien distraire, ni considérer comme objets d’héritage.” (Summarized: "It has always been the practice that there is a chapel in the Greek-Russian rite close to the graves of Grand-Duchesses of Russia living in foreign countries. The sacred vessels and other objects of divine worship, like the chasubles should remain together as objects of the heritage").

Today's Russian-Orthodox Church in The Hague has been built with the capital of Anna Paulovna's legacy. The objects of her chapels are still in use there. And Anna herself? She got a public Protestant funeral (and a private Orthodox ceremony) and has been interred in the Protestant New Church in Delft.

Queen Anna's travel set, now in use by the Orthodox Church in The Hague.

Queen Anna's field chapel, for travelling, a gift from her brother Tsar Alexander I

A reconstruction of Queen Anna's field chapel with her original attributes
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  #68  
Old 12-13-2015, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Let us not forget that the Roman-Catholic Church and the Protestant Church are two denominations in the very same Christian Faith. It is all not that shockingly different.

I think that Queen Máxima has learned to appreciate Protestantism but remained attached to the Church of Rome. And that is her good right. The constitutional Freedom of Faith counts for all residents in the kingdom of the Netherlands. The King himself included, by the way.
Maybe...but i'm pretty sure if the king would convert to Roman-Catholicism that would not go down well with some of the other christian denominations...
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  #69  
Old 12-13-2015, 11:02 AM
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Maybe...but i'm pretty sure if the king would convert to Roman-Catholicism that would not go down well with some of the other christian denominations...
I do not believe King WA will ever become Roman Catholic - he is now almost 50 years old. Yes, it's possible, but not probable. But if that would occur, why would other it not go down well with other Christian denominations? His wife is Catholic, as are 2 maternal aunts, 7 maternal 1st cousins and their families. Religion should be a personal matter. As long as a monarch, president, prime minister, or any person for that matter, is not pushing their religion down others' throats, or involved in clandestine activities promoting chaos upon others, who cares what religion another chooses?
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
I do not believe King WA will ever become Roman Catholic - he is now almost 50 years old. Yes, it's possible, but not probable. But if that would occur, why would other it not go down well with other Christian denominations? His wife is Catholic, as are 2 maternal aunts, 7 maternal 1st cousins and their families. Religion should be a personal matter. As long as a monarch, president, prime minister, or any person for that matter, is not pushing their religion down others' throats, or involved in clandestine activities promoting chaos upon others, who cares what religion another chooses?
I don't think it works that way for a monarch, especially not in a country that has an official state-religion.

The NL doesn't have that and I indeed don't for a minute believe that the king will convert, but only 1 generation ago the fact that second-in-line Princess Irene converted to Catholicism resulted in a big shock for a lot of dutch people, see for instance this article:
Prinses Irene trouwde zonder familie - NPO Geschiedenis
translation

The fact that when king WA said he was proud of his wife for staying a catholic made headlines in the entire dutch press; en there already were comments of the Protestant church that he was "too little God minded"
Protestantse kerk ziet 'te weinig God bij koning' | NU - Het laatste nieuws het eerst op NU.nl
translated

lead me to my initial comment that if the monarch would convert there would be people who weren't happy about it...
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  #71  
Old 12-13-2015, 11:35 AM
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Irene had to give up her place in succession. She caused a huge problem when she announced her engagement and converted, with parliament threatening to disband at one point. Her mother and father did everything they could to stop the wedding. It wasn't simply Hugo was catholic, but he was a known or suspected Franco supporter.

Christina also renounced her rights. There was fear though attitutdes were changing, that her marriage and conversion would create issues like her sister's. Her wedding was in the Netherlands and thousands showed up in the streets after the wedding. So attitudes certainly have changed.

Unlike the UK and other countries, religion is not a requirement of succession. There is no law saying the heir has to be of a certain faith. But the Dutch royals have been protestant for hundreds of years, and it would be quite shocking if the king or his eldest daughter when she became queen, converted.
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  #72  
Old 12-13-2015, 12:10 PM
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The King of the Netherlands is "attached" to the Protestant tradition, but he has publicly and officially seen in far more catholic places than all his predecessors. King Willem II of the Netherlands had an attachment for the Southern Netherlands and one of his best friends was a priest from Tilburg, Johannes Zwijsen, who would become Bishop of 's-Hertogenbosch (Bois-le-Duc). The presence of the Abbey of Koningshoeven (the King's Farms) which is build on domains owned by King Willem II - therefore the name - is a still a living link to the King's goodwill towards the Catholics in and around Tilburg (see picture).
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  #73  
Old 12-13-2015, 12:56 PM
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I stand by my opinion
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  #74  
Old 12-13-2015, 07:16 PM
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I stand by my opinion
Good for you, and I stand by mine; we obviously don't agree. King WA is not the king of my country, but he is the king of a country with over 50% of its population identifying as atheists. Only around 10% of Dutch Christians identfy as Protestant (mostly belonging to the "Dutch Reformed") and almost 25% identify as Roman Catholic. Long ago, in the very distant past, the Holy See used to interfere with politics and policies of numerous countries and would attempt to sway opinions in its favor; that is not the situation at this point in history. Irene and Carlos Hugo were married many years ago; the Netherlands now has a Catholic Queen consort, and times are very different than even 50 years ago.
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:00 PM
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the catholic church and the (greek) orthodox church "accept" each other, so I think there is officially little converting to do.
There is NOTHING further from the truth. In fact Eastern Christianity is in essence much more different than both versions of western Christianity, and thus whenever a non-Orthodox (and especially Catholic) royal reigned in Orthodox countries there were serious problems in their legitimacy and acceptance.
King Otto of Greece (Bavarian-born) is I think the uttermost example. In nearly 30 revolts during his reign, his conversion was always among the popular demands -which he persistently resisted, being a Wittelsbach. He was ousted ultimately.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:50 AM
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There is NOTHING further from the truth. In fact Eastern Christianity is in essence much more different than both versions of western Christianity, and thus whenever a non-Orthodox (and especially Catholic) royal reigned in Orthodox countries there were serious problems in their legitimacy and acceptance.
King Otto of Greece (Bavarian-born) is I think the uttermost example. In nearly 30 revolts during his reign, his conversion was always among the popular demands -which he persistently resisted, being a Wittelsbach. He was ousted ultimately.
Your described scenario is from a few centuries ago. Within the past 10 years or so, HRH Princess Alexia of Greece and Denmark, who lives in Lanzarote, the Canary Islands, Spain, was able to baptize her 3 daughters into the Greece Orthodox faith in her local Catholic church. Permission was received from the Holy See as well as the appropriate powers - that - be of the Greek Orthodox faith. Her son was baptized there also, but he was baptized Roman Catholic, his father's faith. The Catholic Church will accept the sacraments/rites of Eastern Orthodox churches and perform them on behalf these churches, especially in areas where there are few to no Eastern Orthodox churches. People and official church doctrine of most religions, especially in the western world, have had much progression and continue to move forward. Do they disagree - yes, but they will hopefully continue to progress and continue to move forward, especially with atheism and Islam knocking on Christianity's door.
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  #77  
Old 12-14-2015, 01:14 PM
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Good for you, and I stand by mine; we obviously don't agree. King WA is not the king of my country, but he is the king of a country with over 50% of its population identifying as atheists. Only around 10% of Dutch Christians identfy as Protestant (mostly belonging to the "Dutch Reformed") and almost 25% identify as Roman Catholic. Long ago, in the very distant past, the Holy See used to interfere with politics and policies of numerous countries and would attempt to sway opinions in its favor; that is not the situation at this point in history. Irene and Carlos Hugo were married many years ago; the Netherlands now has a Catholic Queen consort, and times are very different than even 50 years ago.
Would you read my opinion differently if i were among the mentioned 25% (which happens to be the case) ?
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:53 PM
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Pope John Paul II stated that the Catholic and the Ortodox Churches each were a lung of the same body. The Pope has met Patriarchs from the Orthodox Churches and both have commited themselves to wards an unity, both have regretted the Great Schism which drove the once united Church apart. Changes go fast and with an unbelievabe pace.
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:57 PM
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I do not believe King WA will ever become Roman Catholic - he is now almost 50 years old. Yes, it's possible, but not probable. But if that would occur, why would other it not go down well with other Christian denominations? His wife is Catholic, as are 2 maternal aunts, 7 maternal 1st cousins and their families. Religion should be a personal matter. As long as a monarch, president, prime minister, or any person for that matter, is not pushing their religion down others' throats, or involved in clandestine activities promoting chaos upon others, who cares what religion another chooses?
The problem is that his family has been historically associated with the defense of the Protestant faith for over 400 years. If W-A or Amalia converted to Catholicism, that would come as a shock to many people.
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:06 PM
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The King of the Netherlands is "attached" to the Protestant tradition, but he has publicly and officially seen in far more catholic places than all his predecessors. King Willem II of the Netherlands had an attachment for the Southern Netherlands and one of his best friends was a priest from Tilburg, Johannes Zwijsen, who would become Bishop of 's-Hertogenbosch (Bois-le-Duc). The presence of the Abbey of Koningshoeven (the King's Farms) which is build on domains owned by King Willem II - therefore the name - is a still a living link to the King's goodwill towards the Catholics in and around Tilburg (see picture).

Apparently, the Belgian Catholics didn't find that enough as they decided to dump Willem I and bar the House of Orange from ever ascending the Belgian throne. Curiously, they picked a Protestant (Lutheran) King to replace him , Leopold of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, but demanded that Leopold's children were raísed as Catholics.
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