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  #141  
Old 04-24-2011, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
And now you have explained one of the reasons why I have become a republican - the sheer ordinariness of William and Harry.

That they have repordely asked Guy Pelly to help organise the dancing for the evening isn't a surprise. It is what he does - run a nightclub and Harry and William enjoy clubbing at his place.

As for Camilla. If it is true that she was given the right to cross off people then remember that she would only have been given that right by William so he must also approve of her decision to cross off people - just as someone crossed off Fergie. If William had really wanted these people there then noone would have been crossed off. But I also take these reports with a grain of salt - they are from the DM and the source for the Camilla crossing off people is from one of them crossed off. Since Diana died have either of them had anything to do with William? Camilla on the other hand has been a major part of his life for the last decade as his father's partner and wife. The fact that he is including Camilla's granddaughter is his wedding party speaks volumes for how William sees Camilla.

As for the invites to friends of Charles read carefully. The one that I remember is the one that says an American billionaire is getting a free flight to America in exchange for an invite but if you read the article carefully this person is a big time supporter of Charles' charity and may very well be getting the invite for that reason.

One to compare is with is the story that a top guy from Audi is being invited and then reports of William getting an Audi for Kate as a wedding gift - now the DM headline could have been Audi execs helps William with wedding gift for Kate in exchange for invite - but that wouldn't accurately reflect the story and wouldn't be written because it would put William in a bad light - and the DM won't do that. The DM thinks that by attacking Charles they are doing a service to William and his dead mother.

The father of the groom, like fathers/parents of the groom everywhere have some say in the wedding and who is invited - just as the parents of the bride do.
How do you think they should behave then? What would make them less ordinary or not at all?
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  #142  
Old 04-24-2011, 05:23 AM
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How do you think they should behave then? What would make them less ordinary or not at all?

They are supposed to be princes but they don't come across as in any way different to the rest of us. Charles and his siblings were very much royal at the ages that William and Harry are now. They didn't go to clubs and get drunk publicly as Harry has done and William as well.

They don't set themselves apart in any way. If they aren't different then why should they get the privileges and the position?

I was a monarchist when I started here in 2008 but reading the posts here and realising just how ordinary William and Harry are - lacking the regal nature that royals should have - I have become an avowed republican and can't wait for the next referendum in Australia as I will certainly vote for a republic next time. I mean how could anyone actually want William as a future King and Kate - she is nice and all that -- but if the girl next door can be a princess with all that that entails then there is no reason why the girl on the other side shouldn't be able to become my Head of State - why should the one who is lucky enough to fall in love with a particular man get the position while the other is denied it?
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  #143  
Old 04-24-2011, 06:07 AM
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How do you think they should behave then? What would make them less ordinary or not at all?

I completely disagree with the above post :)

I don't see William as ordinary in any way, nor does he represent the ordinary ideal of the common person. He knows who he is, we know who he is and there is nothing ordinary about that!

So the man has had a drink or few at a nightclub? Big deal. If that's the worst of it then anyone who is inclined to judge him on that needs to get a grip.

Tell me what elected politician hasn't had a few too many drinks or found themselves in a less than desirable situation. In fact, I don't think you're a politician unless you or your dignity has been compromised in some way

It would appear that William has not found himself in such company, at least nothing which has ever come to light and until it does, I'd endeavour to suggest it hasn't happened. He's sensible and to me that's perfectly evident.

And I'd certainly want him to be my King. The man, to me, "get's it". Constitutional matters aside, the apparent ease with which he interacts with those he meets does not suggest to me he is ordinary, but quite the opposite. He is a man who despite the immense wealth and privilege, is personable and considerate. The man reflects some wonderful values though yet a good many are rather dissimilar to those of his father and his grandmother where the public are concerned. He isn't intimated to get involved and I mean hands on. And regularlyat that.

It's laughable to think this man should in some way replicate the way his father handles himself socially. If anything, you'd probably want to distance yourself from that style of social awkwardness which Charles certainly has. And it seems to be what William has done and good for him. He isn't his father. Though let it be said that that may have more to do with William being his own person, than intentionally wanting to be different to his father.

Henry has been a bit of dill but in recent years appears to be, as would be expected of someone his age, maturing into a reasonable and responsible young adult by all accounts.

Catherine may be common born, but evidently has a good deal of self respect and handles herself with such dignity. And whilst the consort of the monarch has no constitutional significance in Australia, as a dual British citizen, I have not the slightest ounce of protest that this lady should one day, as is currently expected to happen, become my Queen. And as an Australian, my sentiment is unchanged. She'll make a wonderful wife for the King of Australia in the unlikely event William actually becomes King of this continent and her external territories.

Intelligent, engaging, trustworthy and loyal. It's my opinion you'd be hard pressed to find all those qualities in your average 'girl next door'. So certainly for me, there is something quite reassuring and something very 'uncommon' about this young woman.
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  #144  
Old 04-24-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I completely disagree with the above post :)

I don't see William as ordinary in any way, nor does he represent the ordinary ideal of the common person. He knows who he is, we know who he is and there is nothing ordinary about that!

So the man has had a drink or few at a nightclub? Big deal. If that's the worst of it then anyone who is inclined to judge him on that needs to get a grip.

Tell me what elected politician hasn't had a few too many drinks or found themselves in a less than desirable situation. In fact, I don't think you're a politician unless you or your dignity has been compromised in some way

It would appear that William has not found himself in such company, at least nothing which has ever come to light and until it does, I'd endeavour to suggest it hasn't happened. He's sensible and to me that's perfectly evident.

And I'd certainly want him to be my King. The man, to me, "get's it". Constitutional matters aside, the apparent ease with which he interacts with those he meets does not suggest to me he is ordinary, but quite the opposite. He is a man who despite the immense wealth and privilege, is personable and considerate. The man reflects some wonderful values though yet a good many are rather dissimilar to those of his father and his grandmother where the public are concerned. He isn't intimated to get involved and I mean hands on. And regularlyat that.

It's laughable to think this man should in some way replicate the way his father handles himself socially. If anything, you'd probably want to distance yourself from that style of social awkwardness which Charles certainly has. And it seems to be what William has done and good for him. He isn't his father. Though let it be said that that may have more to do with William being his own person, than intentionally wanting to be different to his father.

Henry has been a bit of dill but in recent years appears to be, as would be expected of someone his age, maturing into a reasonable and responsible young adult by all accounts.

Catherine may be common born, but evidently has a good deal of self respect and handles herself with such dignity. And whilst the consort of the monarch has no constitutional significance in Australia, as a dual British citizen, I have not the slightest ounce of protest that this lady should one day, as is currently expected to happen, become my Queen. And as an Australian, my sentiment is unchanged. She'll make a wonderful wife for the King of Australia in the unlikely event William actually becomes King of this continent and her external territories.

Intelligent, engaging, trustworthy and loyal. It's my opinion you'd be hard pressed to find all those qualities in your average 'girl next door'. So certainly for me, there is something quite reassuring and something very 'uncommon' about this young woman.
Excellent post Madame! I wholeheartedly agree with every point. Having a monarchy that holds themselves above the common man and keeps a distance and superiority that prevents the public from relating to them is no longer acceptable. This is why Diana took the world by storm with her "common" touch and was so beloved. They may have been born Princes, but they are also human beings with considerable empathy and a desire to make a difference rather than just being stuffy, spoiled and out of touch.
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  #145  
Old 04-24-2011, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Excellent post Madame! I wholeheartedly agree with every point. Having a monarchy that holds themselves above the common man and keeps a distance and superiority that prevents the public from relating to them is no longer acceptable. This is why Diana took the world by storm with her "common" touch and was so beloved. They may have been born Princes, but they are also human beings with considerable empathy and a desire to make a difference rather than just being stuffy, spoiled and out of touch.

And of course you have both totally missed my point.

If they are so common and ordinary why should they have the automatic right to be Head of State and deny that right to some other common and ordinary person?
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  #146  
Old 04-24-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
And of course you have both totally missed my point.

If they are so common and ordinary why should they have the automatic right to be Head of State and deny that right to some other common and ordinary person?
Because they are son or daughter of their fathers or mothers. Simple as that. Simple as that!

Times have changed, marriage between royals were primarily for political reasons. No need for that anymore!
William should married who he wants to, not what you me or others considerer the "right" choice. And if because of that New Zealand, Canada or Australia, whatever decides to became a Republic , well that just what it will happen!

To be above it all it might have worked in the past, but today it won't. you can complaint , you can disagree but that just how things work nowadays.


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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Other media is reporting Beyonce and JayZ will be performing at the nightine reception at the request of Kate and William.....

Lol - these rumors are funny
WT... Listen if that happens I won't oppose someone snicking in with a camera and recording this!

I remember Kiri Te Kanawa singing at Charles and Diana' wedding. Will there be a Opera singer at this wedding?
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  #147  
Old 04-24-2011, 10:27 PM
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Whoa, those comments in the first article are hilarious. Seems like a lot of people do not like Camilla.

I'm not familiar with the newspaper but it does not seem to hold the BRF or Monarchy in very high regard. Seems to me that there are some people trying very hard to convince the world that this event is not an ..... event. :)
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  #148  
Old 04-24-2011, 10:55 PM
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Because they are son or daughter of their fathers or mothers. Simple as that. Simple as that!
I didn't miss the point, contrary what that poster may like to suggest. Quite simply, I don't agree with them
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  #149  
Old 04-24-2011, 10:57 PM
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Whoa, those comments in the first article are hilarious. Seems like a lot of people do not like Camilla.

I'm not familiar with the newspaper but it does not seem to hold the BRF or Monarchy in very high regard. Seems to me that there are some people trying very hard to convince the world that this event is not an ..... event. :)

The Express, like the Mail, was always very pro-Diana and was nicknamed at one time the 'Di-press' as they ran a story on her every day basically.

It is a tabloid paper, similar to the Mail but its website isn't as good I don't think.

The paper revered Diana and William and Harry tend to get a free pass but the rest, especially Charles and Camilla, are treated as beneath contempt.
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  #150  
Old 04-24-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
And of course you have both totally missed my point.

If they are so common and ordinary why should they have the automatic right to be Head of State and deny that right to some other common and ordinary person?
You seem to contradict yourself, therefore I am at a loss in understanding your point.

From what I can gather, on one hand you seem to want them to be above the common man, only marry other Royals, and keep themselves away from the public in a mysterious shroud only to be seen when they show up to cut ribbons or dress up for formal functions. And yet isn't that they are useless, out of touch and drain the taxpayers what anti-monarchists complain about the most?

On the other hand, you find that the new generation which marries commoners and seems more open in wanting to engage the common man and bring the monarchy in a new direction in a more hands on, down to earth approach is demeaning to the traditional roles.

You can't have it both ways.
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  #151  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:06 AM
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I had an article prepared somewhere on why I am a monarchist etc etc but I don't know if I'll print it out here
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  #152  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:12 AM
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William is neither ordinary nor common. He's quite above average in many ways, and even extraordinary - in his poise, his levelheadedness, his ability to live in several different worlds and his apparent sanity while the world he lives in would try the patience of Job.

It's hard to have even a minor public role, I can't imagine what it's like to have a major one - nor would I want to. None of us can imagine what he and Kate are going to have to balance in the future, to keep on being "normal," but nothing that happens to them is ever going to be "ordinary" or "common."
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  #153  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:34 AM
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I had an article prepared somewhere on why I am a monarchist etc etc but I don't know if I'll print it out here.

What's the worst that can happen? Someone may not agree with your opinion, and some probably won't. But it's your opinion and you are speaking solely for yourself. If I chose not to post based on on what others may or may not agree with, my post count would be a O.

Your reasons are yours alone and in no way, can they be considered any less important or established than the views of those who do not support the monarchy.
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  #154  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:28 AM
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Of course that is the point. It only represents my attempt to refute critics of monarchies, but no more than that.
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  #155  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:40 AM
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I prefer to look at it more as an expression of one's opinion, and not something that necessarily sets out to refute the opinions of those who may not agree.

Sounds more agreeable, anyway

Either way, should you choose to post it, I'm sure it would be an interesting perspective.
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  #156  
Old 04-26-2011, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
You seem to contradict yourself, therefore I am at a loss in understanding your point.

From what I can gather, on one hand you seem to want them to be above the common man, only marry other Royals, and keep themselves away from the public in a mysterious shroud only to be seen when they show up to cut ribbons or dress up for formal functions. And yet isn't that they are useless, out of touch and drain the taxpayers what anti-monarchists complain about the most?
That might be how some anti-monarchists see it but I don't. I think if they want to be different and above us then behave accordingly rather than being mere celebrities.

When the royals were royal and a bit out of touch they actually had a real status but since the 80s they have simply become no different to any TV or movie star except that they will be around for ever.

You have seen the screeming crowds of teenage girls in Brisbane waiting for Justin Beiber yesterday and today and then see the crowds for William and Kate there is no difference. Being 'in touch' has lowered their standing to that of a pop star in my opinion. The Queen has a regal bearing but her grandchildren are just common people with rich parents - nothing special about them at all.

Quote:
On the other hand, you find that the new generation which marries commoners and seems more open in wanting to engage the common man and bring the monarchy in a new direction in a more hands on, down to earth approach is demeaning to the traditional roles.

You can't have it both ways.

If the girl next door - as Kate has been described - can be the mother of the next Head of State - why can't the girl on the other side do so as well?

Marrying Kate really raises the issue of what makes them so special that they should have this role and not some other person.

Is 'accident of birth' a good enough reason to get a job?
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:57 AM
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Is 'accident of birth' a good enough reason to get a job?
Give me a hereditary head of state anytime over the sort of people that can be elected in this day and age. Or in the past.
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  #158  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:18 PM
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@Iluvbertie

I do not believe that by becoming ordinary, monarchies should lose their appeal. If fact, with the kind of monarchy I'm proposing and advocating, it should have broad appeal.

On the issue of if they become ordinary, why give this to them and have monarchies at all, would be further talked about later.

Your response and input is greatly welcome and needed.
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That might be how some anti-monarchists see it but I don't. I think if they want to be different and above us then behave accordingly rather than being mere celebrities.

When the royals were royal and a bit out of touch they actually had a real status but since the 80s they have simply become no different to any TV or movie star except that they will be around for ever.

You have seen the screeming crowds of teenage girls in Brisbane waiting for Justin Beiber yesterday and today and then see the crowds for William and Kate there is no difference. Being 'in touch' has lowered their standing to that of a pop star in my opinion. The Queen has a regal bearing but her grandchildren are just common people with rich parents - nothing special about them at all.




If the girl next door - as Kate has been described - can be the mother of the next Head of State - why can't the girl on the other side do so as well?

Marrying Kate really raises the issue of what makes them so special that they should have this role and not some other person.

Is 'accident of birth' a good enough reason to get a job?
The real test of the relevance of royalty in any given country are primarily seen in times of crisis.

With all due respect for celebreties, who do you look to when things are really bad? Who do you consider to be a rallying point? Who do you expect to personify your grief or to comfort people?

Justin Bieber? Nah. Beckham? No.
You look to your head of state.

The difference is that an elected head of state, can sometimes also be a government leader and as such he/she may harbour at least some responsibility for what has happened.
So a royal family, who has been around long, and who are supposed to be living symbols of your country are not such a bad alternative.

On a day to day basis, in a rapidly changing world, a royal family can provide a historical, national and cultural anchor for many people, including myself.
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:06 AM
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The real test of the relevance of royalty in any given country are primarily seen in times of crisis.

With all due respect for celebreties, who do you look to when things are really bad? Who do you consider to be a rallying point? Who do you expect to personify your grief or to comfort people?

Justin Bieber? Nah. Beckham? No.
You look to your head of state.

The difference is that an elected head of state, can sometimes also be a government leader and as such he/she may harbour at least some responsibility for what has happened.
So a royal family, who has been around long, and who are supposed to be living symbols of your country are not such a bad alternative.

On a day to day basis, in a rapidly changing world, a royal family can provide a historical, national and cultural anchor for many people, including myself.
As always, right on the money. Those we elect cannot be trusted, more than ever, and more likely represent only those who back them or got them there in the first place. Without a tentpole to look towards things can get a lot worse as history proved time and again. I can look to and respect the royals, to represent me because they are apart from that.

I remember when William and Harry took the time to write back to a sick girl who invited countless people to a fundraising event, apologising that they couldn't come. Of hundreds of our elected politicians, very few of them cared to reply. Doesn't that tell you something?
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