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  #61  
Old 02-14-2007, 11:43 PM
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I don't think the monarchy as an institution is very popular in Belgium (unlike countries like Denmark). It's staying power had a lot to do with the charisma of its leader, like Juan Carlos and the Spanish monarchy. Personalities Baudouin and Fabiola, along with Albert I and Elisabeth (and Leopold III to an extent w/ Queen Astrid before her death/his second marriage and WWII) helped elevate the monarchy in Belgium, but the current royal family lacks the admiration (I guess w/ the exception of Princess Astrid) their predecesors enjoyed. King Albert II has an illegiment child; I've heard Queen Paola doesn't speak Dutch too well either like Mathilde; Prince Philippe seems to always make faux pas; and Prince Laurent, who had a reputation for fast cars and fast women before marrying, is currently emboiled in a Navy corruption scandal.
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  #62  
Old 02-15-2007, 04:09 AM
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Deleted as the question was already answered - sorry.
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  #63  
Old 02-15-2007, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
He's got a decent head on his shoulders seemingly, he could do so much more with it than he currently is. He could be more like Victoria or even Madeleine of Sweden, two princesses who already have university degrees, but they keep on adding internships at various institutes in areas that are relevant. Or maybe he is doing all those things and we just don't know about them?
Does Victoria have a university degree?? Which one is that? I thought that she precisely was the one without a degree
Why don't you count in Frederik's university degree and his internships? He is about 10 years Victoria's senior after all and at another stage in life then she.
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  #64  
Old 02-15-2007, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Quote from Little_Star
That's a complete generalisation, imo. Perhaps in some countries (mainly Europe) they have little importance but there are plenty of others where they are the rulers of their kingdom.
Yes, I admit I was generalizing.
I am focused on European royals and don't take much notice of the others.
I should have pointed that out.

But on the other hand, if you agree that European royals have little importance
then why do you think that Frederik is not prepared for his unimportant role?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
For some countries, the monarchy is purely ceremonial, like in Japan, Sweden and Denmark.

In Norway (where the King attends the Council of Ministers himself) and in the Netherlands and in Luxembourg (which has a 'Dutch' system) the political role is undoutedly there.

In the United Kingdom there are a lot of formal royal prerogatives but the strong personal and 'presidential' figures of the successive Prime Ministers have had an eroding effect on the royal powers.

In Spain and Belgium the formal powers are very under pressure due to the unstoppable demands for constitutional reforms and ongoing federalization.
Thank you for these informations.
But Queen Margrethe and even Crown Prince Frederik do attend councils of ministers.
So why is the monarchy in DK purely ceremonial and in Norway undoubtely political?

I personally didn't think that there is such a great difference between the European monarchies.
There may be a difference in how they represent themselves or how stable the monarchies are.
But it seems to me they are all not supposed to interfere with politics and mainly ceremonial.

Wasn't there a lot of criticism in the beginning because Queen Beatrix interferred too much?
It took quite some time until people got used to it.
So, it seems to me this is more a personal thing than standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Not much. You act as the stand-in for the Queen who has left her Kingdom. Frederik can act as a regent. His brother. His aunt Benedikte. It is a concept totally unknown to most monarchies who only will have a Regent in case of a minor King or for a King who is no longer able to fullfil the kingship.
No, neither Joachim nor Benedikte can be regent, they can be "rigsforstander" which is a bit different.

Quote:
Quote from princess_olga
OK, so what exactly does that mean? What does it entail?
Generally spoken a regent is someone who acts as head of state when the monarch is absent or incapable to rule (underage, illness, madness..).
He does everything the monarch usually does (e.g. signing bills, giving private and public audiences, attending state councils, hosting foreign dignitaries...)
And with respect to the topic of this thread it means that Frederik (like Haakon) has already proven
that he is prepared and capable to do the job.
It's not his fault that it is not the most demanding job.

Actually I sometimes think that the limitations of this job he was born into are the reason
why Frederik doesn't seem to be overwhelmed of joy by the prospect of becoming king.
But so wasn't Margrethe in the beginning and she has become a great queen.
They both give the impression to me that they have accepted their fates but could do very well without it,
Margrethe occupying herself with her art and Frederik with sport.
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  #65  
Old 02-15-2007, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
But on the other hand, if you agree that European royals have little importance
then why do you think that Frederik is not prepared for his unimportant role?
Fristly, I don't think every European country is the same, although generally speaking the Monarchy is not as "important" as in other nations because they are all consitutional monarchs (I think).

However as to their importance i do think some have agreat deal more importance than others. For example, the British Monarchy will always be a major player mainly because of the Commonwealth and its legacy. Similarly the Spanish monarchy because of the fine line it must tread is also quite important. Moreover their international status, like Britain is very high.

I've already said why I don't think Fred is prepared for his role, I don't see the point in repeating myself.
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  #66  
Old 02-15-2007, 05:37 AM
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Well, it doesn't seem to me you are considering the differences of European monarchies when you are judging people.

Frederik will never have a work schedule like Felipe and Charles,
he will be king of a small and politically stable country with a mainly ceremonial monarchy.

But I am quite sure he is prepared for his limited role and he will be a popular king.

And as for Spain and Britain, yes they are more important and more difficult areas,
but their monarchies are mainly ceremonial too and the role of their monarchs is limited too.
King Juan Carlos' role was more important because he had to restore the monarchy in Spain,
but it won't be the same for his heir.

Therefore I stick to my original comment:
The importance of the European royals and especially cps is over-estimated.
(although some of them do make faces as if the future of their countries depends on them)
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  #67  
Old 02-15-2007, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
But Queen Margrethe and even Crown Prince Frederik do attend councils of ministers.
Do they? I thought they were kept far away from everything which has a political meaning. Eevn a purely symbolical address in Parliament is not allowed for the Queen. (She just sits in a loge).
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  #68  
Old 02-15-2007, 07:02 AM
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Yes, she is not supposed to say anything at the opening of parliament.
But she and sometimes CP Frederik too are attending state councils.
And Margrethe gives new year speeches every year which touch quite sensitive topics sometimes,
e.g. last time the Muhammed caricatures.
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  #69  
Old 02-15-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
Yes, she is not supposed to say anything at the opening of parliament.
But she and sometimes CP Frederik too are attending state councils.
And Margrethe gives new year speeches every year which touch quite sensitive topics sometimes,
e.g. last time the Muhammed caricatures.
I agre with you on what you are saying and who is ther els to sign the laws befor we are abel to juse them her in Denmark.
When ther is a state council it is either Queen Margrethe or CP Frederik who are attending..at this time when Queen Margrethe is on sickness absence it is going to be CP Frederik who are attending her funktions when the state councils is going to be next week.
I woud like to say that just because Denmark is a small nation it DOS not meen that CP Frederik is not doing any work at all. What is the problem that he likes to sail and to take part in a race ? Both King Konstantin of Greece,King JuanCarlos of Spain and King Harald of Norway also like to sail and to be apart of any race in the world...Maby it is ok since they are Kings that they are allowed to sail Why in the world shud a CP not be allowede to do the same as they do ??
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  #70  
Old 02-15-2007, 08:21 PM
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LaPlusBelle originally posted a question asking about Guillaume of Luxembourg and his education and experiences thus far. So I did a little research as I was curious as well.

He has spent a lot of time in England as he attended the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. He also studied in England at the University of Durham and at Brunel University. He has a bachelor of science degree in International Politics. All this is according to wikipedia it also stated that he is continuing his education in Switzerland.

He speaks 4 languages: Luxembourgish, French, German and English

His current duties include being honorary chairman of the Board of Economic Development and the Kraizberg Foundation.

So it certainly seems he is well on his way to being very prepared for his future.
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  #71  
Old 02-15-2007, 10:31 PM
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Most prepared for their roles:
1. Charles
2. Felipe
3. Aihirito (CP of Japan)

Those still working on it:
1. CP Victoria
2. Frederick
3. Haakon
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  #72  
Old 02-15-2007, 11:12 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
Does Victoria have a university degree?? Which one is that? I thought that she precisely was the one without a degree
Yes, Victoria is without a degree. She studied for a year at a university in Angers, France. And she of course also studied at Yale University in the states for 2 years. But she has never completed a degree. She has however, done plenty of internships and special programs.
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:22 AM
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Most prepared:
1. Prince Charles
2. CP Haakon of Norway
3. CP Naruhito of Japan

Still working on it:
CP Victoria of Sweden
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  #74  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:50 AM
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This is so hard to judge. So I'll do them, heir by heir:

Crown Prince Haakon: Although he and MM are not always the most popular, Haakon has had some experience in the role of the monarch, as he was regent during King Harold V's extended leave due to illness and cancer. I think he probably has the "behind-closed-doors" experience, and I have to believe that his modern, creative personality has to be a benefit to him as a Scandinavian royal. With him, I am on the fence: he could be really good, or have a rocky reign. Only time, and public opinion, will tell.

Crown Princess Victoria: Talk about being groomed almost from birth: she has been doing royal activities since she was very young, and is reasonably popular. However, I can't really do an acurate opinion of her, since I haven't spent that much time in the Swedish threads. But go Queen Victoria! In a time a generation of male heirs, she will be the sole reigning queen.

Crown Prince Frederik: He I also think is being well prepared for the "behind-closed-doors" stuff associated with his future role. He has served as regent for his mother, and does visits. Besides, I can't imagine, with a wife as active as Mary, that he sits around all day. I'll be honest, he will definately have to make sure not to fall into her shadow, though. He is popular now, and hopefully will be a good and popular king. Again, the court holds, due to lack of evidence.

Crown Prince Willem-Alexander: W-A has to be the one CP that I can say I believe will do great. He is strong, but is a family-man, and has Maxima as a foil, to show his softer side. His mother is extremely popular, and I have no reason to believe he won't be. I just hope he continues with his causes (like the water) after he becomes king.

Crown Prince Phillipe: Tempests are brewing here: after a strong reign, King Albert is a modern royal, who somehow manages to hold Belgium together. Phillipe is a more traditional seeming royal, and the commonly expressed fear is that he won't be able to walk the tightrope his father has. I can only hope that he will be able to remain calm and to make diplomatic decisions.

Crown Prince Felipe: He will either do really well, or things could go badly. Spain has a lot of republican movements, and the terrorist groups are still somewhat active. The reason the monarchy has held together as well as it has is the popularity of its king. Many in Spain are actually JuanCarlistas, and hopefully, Felipe will be able to translate his personal strength and his intelligence into guiding Spain into a prosperous future. I just feel like his biggest thing will be remaining in touch with the common man, not becoming too involved with the history and pomp and circumstance of the monarchy of old.
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  #75  
Old 02-16-2007, 10:41 AM
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Most : Felipe and Charles
Least : The Duke of Brabrant

How is Frederik not prepared ifI may ask ?
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  #76  
Old 02-16-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
He is regent right now, covering for his mother, as he did several times last year.
No complaints about his preparedness so far.

I think all the cps are well educated and prepared for what is expected of them which isn't very much in the end.
The importance of royals is really over-estimated on this board IMO.
As a German I dare to say monarchs are a beautiful decoration but not really essential for a state.
But perhaps I am missing something?

I always have that quote from "The Madness of King George" in my mind:
"You want to do something? Give the people the impression that you are happy.
That's what we are here for." (qouting from memory)
Perhaps the question should be: Who is most/least capable of giving the impression of happiness?
Iīm agreeing and by these standards, Iīm wondering, if itīs good for the happy fairytale to pee from a yacht into to sea...to say, that one doesnīt get the children raised by nannies and though one has two...and that while the parents hardly work. yes, this maybe isnīt about happiness...but its about manners and the image of a happy family.

Of course Frederiks work might be as important for Denmarkīs history &politics as an ant carring a fir needle home. But isnīt he then a little bit overpaid? And would it hurt so much to give at least the impression of working. Isnīt everyone liking working ppl...arenīt grannies saying "Take this boy, he is a hard worker and ambitious"? I had always thought so.
Yes, Iīm getting Denmark isnīt the size of Spain...we had it about 1000 times before. But one can always search a field...what does speak against a man doing "soft" issues as well...and what does speak against supporting smaller unions...Victoria is giving yearly the awards for the best milk farmers...does sound silly and rural...but surely a way to make the schedule more full.

Ok...ok...we have also heard a 1000 times, that the Danes rather prefer the Royal family working less, than too much (what doesnīt speak for the Danes...but ok)...but honestly Iīve a feeling, that also not all Danes are happy with Frederiks current working ethics...at least we got the one or another article last year.
The DRF has the luck, that Denmark hasnīt an as extended media world as e.g. Spains...with glorious monarchists in it, but also spiteful little men...and so the little Danish media world doesnīt bite the hand, that it is feeding.
But this can always change. So I would say this "work less, sail more" motto is build on sand and shouldnīt be taken too far.

And honestly I think it would be wiser, if the die-hard supporters of Frederikīs way would be a little bit more reasonable. He isnīt working much and though getting a lot of money. Not every Dane seems to be fond of his working ethics. And probably even less would, when his schedule would get more spread. I mean, like him...but if you want others to like him as well, then stop to play the blind ones, this is just making ppl even turning more to the other side...

And since this is about being prepared...Frederikīs education surely isnīt bad, but he isnīt already King...so he could still go on to prepare and doing more duties would also help to give the Image of being prepared. Well, maybe being lazy seeming is even Frederikīs plan...and as soon as he would be the boss, he would work like mad and all would be amazed and happy about the new super-king, who changed so much. I though wonder, if anyone here would support the idea of your hubby, brother, friend etc. doing a mini job for 30 years and then he would start to work 24/7

Yes, Iīve highlighted "Image", because thatīs it, what itīs all about. Victoria has indeed no university degree and this actually wouldnīt matter, if the other ones wouldnīt have one as well. I mean, what do you need an university degree for in this job?
I think even not in the Monarchies with some political power, itīs required. It surely doesnīt hurt and a basic knowledge is needed, but Iīm strongly supporting the idea of ppl in such positions having some natural feeling and interest for things.

One just has to look at European politicans in governments. Not all of them have an university degree in law, but many of them have gotten a lot of knowledge during their journey from being a small member of a party up to the position of a minister. And then there are many ppl sitting in universities, writing As in tests, but a few weeks later, they have all forgotten or canīt work with it. What you arenīt interested in, you canīt work with.

With (European) Royals there is one thing tricky...since they arenīt supposed to be very opinionated in political matters, they also canīt show, what they have learned (Except if they would done a course on cutting flowers properly )
In some Monarchies they have the chance to influence things a little bit behind the scenes, but also that ppl wouldnīt always know.
So what to do...twiddling thumbs from 18-60 (?) One could, but it wouldnīt impress much...so there needs to be some training programme...which maybe even would be fruitful, if the "Royal trainee" would be interested and would create a network, he or she later can rely on.
And this training programme would give the ppl a feeling of the trainee becoming a serious grown-up Royal.
So Victoria has no university education and in comparison, it makes her looking bad. But the Swedish court was at least wise enough to give her some extra programme, which does sound very impressive and she hardly had any gaps, since she turned 18. And so she is seeming prepared enough...but honestly, if you ask me, she has always been a charming person with natural charisma...and this would carry her through the job...even without any further or less education.

So concluded: I would say, either you have genuine interest (in the ppl, you meet, in politics and history...) and you "klick" with the ppl or you donīt have it and then also the best school doesnīt help to make you professional seeming. And if you have "it", then stay busy and pretend to also get some OFFICIAL education and you perfect your task. Then there is practically no surface for attack...even not from "Why is Fred not working??"-bitches

Talking about Belgium...I think, if the Belgian Monarchy would break down, it wouldnīt be so much because of the unpopular Royals, but more because Belgium would break apart. The Royal family might have some power, but even if they all would be as popular as some other foreign Royals, they wouldnīt have enough power to keep things sticking together. Keeping 2 or more very different folks together is not easy..."being only within the familiar ones" is a strong driving force and that one canīt keep things together with mere will other rulers had to accept before. Well, letīs not meet the trouble halfway...maybe Belgiums map would look the same 500 hundred years from now


Loooong Lena-post with not so many good points, I fear
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  #77  
Old 02-16-2007, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
Crown Prince Felipe: He will either do really well, or things could go badly. Spain has a lot of republican movements, and the terrorist groups are still somewhat active. The reason the monarchy has held together as well as it has is the popularity of its king. Many in Spain are actually JuanCarlistas, and hopefully, Felipe will be able to translate his personal strength and his intelligence into guiding Spain into a prosperous future. I just feel like his biggest thing will be remaining in touch with the common man, not becoming too involved with the history and pomp and circumstance of the monarchy of old.
Agreed. But I don't think it will be that Felipe himself does something wrong, it will be more that the Republican groups take advantage of the change from Juan Carlos to Felipe and do something disastrous. I'm sure Felipe realises how hard he will have to work and hopefully is ready for it!
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  #78  
Old 02-16-2007, 04:01 PM
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I donīt think Frederik is not prepared, but he seems to have a reluctance to be in the limelight, which IMO is a serious drawback for someone who is going to lead or be a symbol for unity of their country. One wonders what he would do when the going gets tough - would he be decisive enough, would he be powerful enough to unite a country?
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Old 02-16-2007, 04:34 PM
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Thank you for your post Lena. I think that Crown Prince Frederik is prepared but there is just an image of him of being non-serious.

I think the best prepared Heirs are more or less comparable with a combination of the eldest and longest serving Heirs, with the exception for Belgium

1 - HRH Prince Charles, the Prince of Wales
1 - HRH Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, the Crown Prince of Thailand

2 - HH Sultan bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia
2 - HRH Prince Felipe, the Prince of Asturias
2 - HSH Prince Aloïs von und zu Liechtenstein

3 - HRH Prince Willem-Alexander, the Prince of Orange
3 - HRH Prince Haakon Magnus, the Crown Prince of Norway
3 - HRH Prince Frederik, the Crown Prince of Denmark

4 - HRH Princess Victoria, the Crown Princess of Sweden
4 - HRH Princess Caroline, the Princess of Hannover

5 - HRH Prince Guillaume, the Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg
5 - HRH Prince Philippe, the Duke of Brabant
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Old 02-17-2007, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge
I don't think the monarchy as an institution is very popular in Belgium (unlike countries like Denmark). It's staying power had a lot to do with the charisma of its leader, like Juan Carlos and the Spanish monarchy. Personalities Baudouin and Fabiola, along with Albert I and Elisabeth (and Leopold III to an extent w/ Queen Astrid before her death/his second marriage and WWII) helped elevate the monarchy in Belgium, but the current royal family lacks the admiration (I guess w/ the exception of Princess Astrid) their predecesors enjoyed. King Albert II has an illegiment child; I've heard Queen Paola doesn't speak Dutch too well either like Mathilde; Prince Philippe seems to always make faux pas; and Prince Laurent, who had a reputation for fast cars and fast women before marrying, is currently emboiled in a Navy corruption scandal.
I do not totally agree with what you are saying, it is true that the monarchy in Belgium is not as popular as in other Europeen countries but the Belgians love king Albert II, he is a warm, spontanious king who stands close tot the public. Princess Mathilde dind't spoke verry well dutch in the beginning but she improoved a lott, and now she is speaking verry wel, she speaks better dutch as queen Paola, queen Paola speaks dutch, last year there was a documentary about queen Paola with teh title 'voice of the queen' it was a warm, open portret about the queen, she speaks in Dutch French and Italian, her dutch was oke, she made the dowumentary because she wanted the Belgians to know her voice. Prince Laurant ahs always been the "enfant terrible' of the royal family". The royal family of Belgium has changed in the last years, they are more open to the public and to the press, we had the documentary about the queen, several intervieuws, photo shoots,...

I don't think Prince Filip is ready for the trone. King Albert II is doing a verry good job and he loves it. Filip needs more time, let him enjoy a couple more years of his wife and 3 lovely childern before beginning on a hard task, trying to be such a good king as his father.
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