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  #41  
Old 02-13-2007, 07:43 PM
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What about Guillaume of Luxembourg or Alois of Liechtenstein? I know Alois has the power in Liechtenstein now, but I really know nothing else about him and his level of preparedness after that.
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  #42  
Old 02-13-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Yes, Queen Beatrix is known as a perfectioniste-avant-la-lettre and it is known that she uses the whip in the royal household organization (figurally). Her anger is feared and politicians or officials who (in her eye) make a mess of their business, of have 'let her down' or did misuse her confidence can rely on her legendaric wrath. There are a lot of witnesses who tell about a sort of freezing in her face, under that majestic bulletproof hairdo, with staring eyes and a slightly moved eyebrow. I have read comparisons with Medusa, the mythical monster which can transform people in crumbling stone with her prying eyes.... Ministers have had shaking knees under Queen Beatrix' deadly disapproval.
Wow, I love it. She sounds like a great example for females in the Netherlands. Good for her! I really don't know that much about her but yesterday I was looking thru the "Make a difference day" threads I believe it was the one from '05 and there were pics of Q. Beatrix serving drinks and talking to the people. It made me see her in a different light, a very good light.

Also it sounds like quite the change from mother to daughter. Will that happen again far into the future when W-A takes over or are him and Q. Beatrix very much on the same page?
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  #43  
Old 02-13-2007, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by actr
The best prepared: the Prince of Wales and the Prince of Orange.

The least prepared: Crown prince Frederik of Denmark.
Could not agree more regarding your 'most prepared' pick. The Prince of Wales has put in a ton of mileage over the years, with thousands of visits with constituents all over the planet, not to mention he's really carved out a series of niches over the years. From architecture (or the protection of heritage architecture) to organic farming, Prince Charles has given his all and is more than ready (not that I'd like his excellent mom to retire, but still)

The Prince of Orange, same story almost. Alexander's been revving up the mileage in recent years, and, it has to be said, been putting in a lot of effort regarding his most recent, well, one could call them, J.O.B's!

For example his latest promotion, as the head of the UN's water committee. Sure one could say, he's been picked for the job due to his role as Prince, but it's clear he's picked for that particular gig because of his sheer <expertise> he's been working building up over the years.

He's picked the right wife, too, someone with a clear sense of direction and vision. The two of them have also displayed clear leadership qualities on their home turf, the Netherlands.

The only thing I'd say <against> Alexander is that his kids are a bit young for him to get the extremely high profile, high demanding, job as king. The current 'king', queen Beatrix, puts in a ton of traveling mileage annually; it is to be debated whether becoming king while the kids are this young is ideal. OTOH, in terms of expertise and quality, he seems ready and so does his wife.

The real wild card, to me, is Fred. He seems to have less projects on a daily basis than even his wife. What does he do besides supporting Denmark's sporting teams occasionally, besides participating in sailing competitions, however draining that hobby may be? I frankly haven't the faintest. If anyone of you can enlighten me on this one, please do.

All I can say is, Queen Margarethe, on the off off chance you might read this (yeah, right!), please do your son a favor and give him more to do, and something that carries more weight than anything 'sports' related, please! The guy may have the talent, but he also needs the practise!
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  #44  
Old 02-13-2007, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
All I can say is, Queen Margarethe, on the off off chance you might read this (yeah, right!), please do your son a favor and give him more to do, and something that carries more weight than anything 'sports' related, please! The guy may have the talent, but he also needs the practise!
I love it, very funny. I'm picturing her right now sitting in front of her computer logging on to the internet.

On another note I agree completely on your opinion of W-A choosing the right wife. I think he chose very well for himself and for the Netherlands. She also appears to be so hard working. But best of all I think Maxima appears as a woman that anyone could get along with. She just seems so friendly and cordial with all.
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  #45  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora810
Wow, I love it. She sounds like a great example for females in the Netherlands. Good for her! I really don't know that much about her but yesterday I was looking thru the "Make a difference day" threads I believe it was the one from '05 and there were pics of Q. Beatrix serving drinks and talking to the people. It made me see her in a different light, a very good light.

Also it sounds like quite the change from mother to daughter. Will that happen again far into the future when W-A takes over or are him and Q. Beatrix very much on the same page?
I believe in an interview about 10 years ago he said that he admired the style of his grandmother very much, so...

I expect a mix of the two past reigns: still a well organised professional household, a strict division in private/public (it is WA and Maxima who invented the present media code to protect their daughters) etc. But I also expect that they will be a bit more relaxed towards people and the media, which is more the style of Juliana.

-
on a sidenote: I do not think HM was responsible for the distruction of Ediwn de Roy, former husband of Princess Margarita, he was himself to blame as the man seems to be a lunatic.
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  #46  
Old 02-14-2007, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Thanks, your pleasure is my pleasure.



Yes, Queen Beatrix is known as a perfectioniste-avant-la-lettre and it is known that she uses the whip in the royal household organization (figurally). Her anger is feared and politicians or officials who (in her eye) make a mess of their business, of have 'let her down' or did misuse her confidence can rely on her legendaric wrath. There are a lot of witnesses who tell about a sort of freezing in her face, under that majestic bulletproof hairdo, with staring eyes and a slightly moved eyebrow. I have read comparisons with Medusa, the mythical monster which can transform people in crumbling stone with her prying eyes.... Ministers have had shaking knees under Queen Beatrix' deadly disapproval.
That may be so, but I think she's doing that out of the respect she feels the role of monarch demands, rather than that she'd like to be that intimidating in her private life, which she isn't - it is said that privately, she is said to come across as very warm and welcoming. She's an interesting lady, alright - actually shy but with a definite vision and opinion she's not afraid to show. Complex interesting lady indeed I think. Andy Warhol was of the opinion she's the most beautiful of all four then-reigning queens, that's what he told the media in the eighties when he made portraits of all four queens (Elizabeth, Margarethe, Beatrix and one other lady I'm ashamed I forget the name and country of--in Africa)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
But she can also really destroy people's lives. See Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn, the former spouse of her godchild and niece Princess Margarita de Bourbon de Parme. He has fallen deeply and now is a totally broken man, financially and socially. Almost like a pariah. Mainly to his own actions, but public disapproval of the Royal House really does not help you in the Netherlands.
Yes Beatrix has more influence in the Neth. than, say, Elizabeth in the UK, nevertheless, regarding Edwin, I'm agreeing with Marengo that whatever fate befell him, he ultimately really had only one thing to blame: his utterly delusional brain. Which proved much more powerful than any queen in the world - he's a prime example of someone who's his own worst enemy.

Anyway back to the topic: I agree Beatrix had a tough time in the beginning living up to her mother in terms of popularity among her constituents. But I think she's still today, underrated. In any case she AND her late husband really prepared ALL their sons well for a productive life.

Which in Alexander's case wasn't exactly obvious, and it took him the better part of a decade to really get into his own groove. But he's grown a lot and that's because he's put in the mileage, which now is starting to bear fruit. What a contrast, dare I say, with Fred of Denmark for example

I'm actually thinking perhaps Frederick's parents keep him short? I just cannot come up with any other reason why he's so underutilized by his country. He's got a decent head on his shoulders seemingly, he could do so much more with it than he currently is. He could be more like Victoria or even Madeleine of Sweden, two princesses who already have university degrees, but they keep on adding internships at various institutes in areas that are relevant. Or maybe he is doing all those things and we just don't know about them?





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  #47  
Old 02-14-2007, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
All I can say is, Queen Margarethe, on the off off chance you might read this (yeah, right!), please do your son a favor and give him more to do, and something that carries more weight than anything 'sports' related, please! The guy may have the talent, but he also needs the practise!
He is regent right now, covering for his mother, as he did several times last year.
No complaints about his preparedness so far.

I think all the cps are well educated and prepared for what is expected of them which isn't very much in the end.
The importance of royals is really over-estimated on this board IMO.
As a German I dare to say monarchs are a beautiful decoration but not really essential for a state.
But perhaps I am missing something?

I always have that quote from "The Madness of King George" in my mind:
"You want to do something? Give the people the impression that you are happy.
That's what we are here for." (qouting from memory)
Perhaps the question should be: Who is most/least capable of giving the impression of happiness?
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  #48  
Old 02-14-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
The importance of royals is really over-estimated on this board IMO.
For some countries, the monarchy is purely ceremonial, like in Japan, Sweden and Denmark.

In Norway (where the King attends the Council of Ministers himself) and in the Netherlands and in Luxembourg (which has a 'Dutch' system) the political role is undoutedly there. In Morocco, Jordan, Monaco and Liechtenstein there still is an almost oldfashioned personal power for the Monarch.

In the United Kingdom there are a lot of formal royal prerogatives but the strong personal and 'presidential' figures of the successive Prime Ministers have had an eroding effect on the royal powers.

In Spain and Belgium the formal powers are very under pressure due to the unstoppable demands for constitutional reforms and ongoing federalization.
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  #49  
Old 02-14-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
I'm actually thinking perhaps Frederick's parents keep him short? I just cannot come up with any other reason why he's so underutilized by his country. He's got a decent head on his shoulders seemingly, he could do so much more with it than he currently is. He could be more like Victoria or even Madeleine of Sweden, two princesses who already have university degrees, but they keep on adding internships at various institutes in areas that are relevant. Or maybe he is doing all those things and we just don't know about them?
As has been pointed out - Frederik is quite accomplished, both by having a master's degree in political science from University of Aarhus, with a stay at Harvard, and as well as a solid career in the armed forces.

The things Victoria does now - are things Frederik did ten years ago, when he was her age. He's had internships: served 3 months with the Danish UN delegation in New York and served a year as 1st secretary at the Danish embassy in Paris, among others.

Currently he's regent. He's connected with his own patronages. He's also teacher at the Institute for Strategy at the Danish Defence academy. The latter, not included on his calendar. My guess is that it is seen as something he's doing as a private person, aside from his duties.

My point is: the education phase - Frederik was done with that before meeting Mary. Haakon was in the middle of his phase when he met Mette-Marit, hence the two of them studying in London. Victoria is still working on hers.

The heirs may be in the same position by being heirs - but there's incredibly many things that makes them individuals. The countries, and therefore the amount of work that is visible. Male heirs are less visible here at the forums than their wives, or their female counterpart. If they took to wearing dresses...
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  #50  
Old 02-14-2007, 10:17 AM
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Best prepared: The Prince of Wales off course but also The Crownprince of Norway.

Least prepared: The Crownprince of Belgium.

To yong to be prepared: The Crowmprincess of Sweden and The Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg.
I´m sorry Victoria but you need more year of studies and a family before you are The Queen of Sweden.
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  #51  
Old 02-14-2007, 10:43 AM
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The most prepared heir to me seems Prince Charles. A lot of factors work for him other than his long preparation. His personal life is at a good point,his happiness with Camilla and her support is very evident, his sons are grown up and should hopefully have learnt how not to ruffle up the wrong feathers by now. This I think is a big factor in a monarch's well functioning, a good support system. His role models Queen Mum and QEII have to be one of the best examples so hopefully he learnt the essentials. And his own interests like religious tolerance and organic farming do point to his interest and involvement for causes.

The least prepared I think will be Prince Guillame of Luxemburg because he is the youngest of lot. He still has to catch up in agewise maturity, in a solid personal life and experience.

I have seen that a lot of negative feelings are directed towards Prince Frederick. I agree that his role is very limited but I do not think that it is necessarily an indication that he is not working to become a model monarch. Maybe the situation in Denmark demands that he be a spectator. Queen Margarethe is not an active participant in politics. The opening of Parliament has downplayed the role of the monarchy in the state from what I have seen. I have noticed that the Danish family is one of the smallest and the frequencies of their appearance very limited. If Denmark has continued to be ok with that maybe this is the right direction. Maybe the reason we see Mary more than him is because she has taken up the soft causes (Not that they are unimportant) which are not controversial in any nature and he will have to wait for his turn to be more involved in causes which are more inclined towards politics or finance. Also it is only in recent years that he has really settled down in family life. Somehow he has emerged as a happier and content person in only in the past few years and I expect that he will be more than ready when the time comes.

I know that this question is about the most/least prepared heir but when the actual time comes it will be up to the individuals to rise up to the occasion. What will happen then remains unseen as of now and we may be in for some pleasant/unpleasant(hope not) surprises.
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  #52  
Old 02-14-2007, 11:36 AM
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Why the CP of Begium is not well fit for the role to be a king one day? I also read that Belgians prefer his older sister. Why is that?
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  #53  
Old 02-14-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria1999
Why the CP of Begium is not well fit for the role to be a king one day? I also read that Belgians prefer his older sister. Why is that?
Actually, CP Philippe has a younger sister, Princess Astrid. I'm not from Belgium and don't live in Europe, but most reports say that Philippe does not appear to be the most comptent/confident person in public. He's made flubs in public, although they say he's gotten better since he married Mathilde.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria1999
Why the CP of Begium is not well fit for the role to be a king one day? I also read that Belgians prefer his older sister. Why is that?
Prince Philippe, the Duke of Brabant, is seen as incapable and the initial enthusiasm for the young and fresh Lady Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz has changed into a indifference to her. Her invisibility (she does a lot of public duties but does not catch wide attention) and her inability the learn the language of 2/3 of her compatriots (while she was born, has lived in Belgium all her life ánd is a professional speech therapist....) has quite worked negatively for her, when people compare her to Agrntinean-born, Spanish-speaking, just 5 years in the Netherlands-living Princess Máxima.

But to remain fair: it is not only Philippe's fault. Like in Spain, the ongoing federalization and transfer of power from the central state has affected and weakened the once so strong national symbols.

The King of the Belgians is more and more become a 'King of Nothing' since 'Belgium' more and more crumbles down in favour of Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. This of course also affects the position of the Heir to the 'King of Nothing'.
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  #55  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
The importance of royals is really over-estimated on this board IMO.
That's a complete generalisation, imo. Perhaps in some countries (mainly Europe) they have little importance but there are plenty of others where they are the rulers of their kingdom.
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  #56  
Old 02-14-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
He is regent right now, covering for his mother, as he did several times last year.
OK, so what exactly does that mean? What does it entail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
The importance of royals is really over-estimated on this board IMO.
As a German I dare to say monarchs are a beautiful decoration but not really essential for a state.
Ah, now I get it. Sitting pretty is what we're paying these royals to do! Who knew! So in that case you are absolutely right, Fred & his handsome smile seem well prepared for that. Actually, if smiling & waving happily from a sailing boat while holding a toddler is what it takes, heck, I want to sign up too?!
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
OK, so what exactly does that mean? What does it entail?
Not much. You act as the stand-in for the Queen who has left her Kingdom. Frederik can act as a regent. His brother. His aunt Benedikte. It is a concept totally unknown to most monarchies who only will have a Regent in case of a minor King or for a King who is no longer able to fullfil the kingship.

Since the kingship in Denmark is largely ceremonial, the regency is ceremonial too.

Quote:
Ah, now I get it. Sitting pretty is what we're paying these royals to do! Who knew! So in that case you are absolutely right, Fred & his handsome smile seem well prepared for that. Actually, if smiling & waving happily from a sailing boat while holding a toddler is what it takes, heck, I want to sign up too?!
In the Swedish, Danish and Japanese (and more and more the Belgian) case: yes. Just sit straight up and be pretty. In the other countries the Sovereign still has formal political powers. And in some countries the informal power, 'the uncatchable and invisible grey area' , forms a real and sometimes formidable power. For an example Queen Beatrix with her Bilderberg networkings, her interests in multinationals, her immense us-knows-us network which she also uses for the benefit of the private family, etc.
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Prince Philippe, the Duke of Brabant, is seen as incapable and the initial enthusiasm for the young and fresh Lady Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz has changed into a indifference to her. Her invisibility (she does a lot of public duties but does not catch wide attention) and her inability the learn the language of 2/3 of her compatriots (while she was born, has lived in Belgium all her life ánd is a professional speech therapist....) has quite worked negatively for her, when people compare her to Agrntinean-born, Spanish-speaking, just 5 years in the Netherlands-living Princess Máxima.
Seriously? I thought she was considered a huge asset. But yes her Dutch is laughable that's absolutely true.

I think you're right in that the difference is that ie the Netherlands is a nation state, and Spain for example is not (as several Spanish friends of mine have underlined time and again), and Belgium is a divided country too, which of course reflects on their monarchy and people's perception of it.

any Belgian and Spanish members here who can give us more context on this one?
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I agree with you Henri, it isn't for nothing that every now and then Belgian newspapers/ columnists etc. are making a plea for Princess Astrid as the future Queen, overlooking her brother and his children. Of course this will never actually happen, but it indicates that there is something seriously wrong with Phillipe's present role.
Yes..I wonder if the Belgian monarchy is nearing its end? It seems the Crown Prince has repeatedly put his foot wrong even with the current government and this new business about his brother is very unseemly.
If only King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola had been able to have children!
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:43 PM
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Best prepared - Hakon & MM, CP Victoria of Sweden
Least prepared - CP Fredrick & CP Mary

Best prepared in the past - HM QE 2
Least prepared - Tsar Nicholas & Empress Alexandra
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