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  #21  
Old 02-13-2007, 09:53 AM
Henri M.'s Avatar
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Originally Posted by Australian
Why do many people think Frederik is not prepared? Upon what basis? I don't know one way or the other, just interested to know the answer
Me too. I backed my opinion with arguments. It is a pity many posters just place a name and then remain silent about the reasons.
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2007, 10:30 AM
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I also do not understand all this "Frederick is the least prepared" stuff. Why exactly do you guys say that? I am not saying that you are wrong, just give us some reason please. Yes, Fred likes to have fun, so do most people. Is it the fact that he left Mary and Christian while he went to the Keys? If so, big deal. So do many married couples. I'm sure they like to have some time to themselves. In my opinion, Fred will be prepared when the time comes, and with Mary by his side, they will make an excellent team.
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2007, 11:23 AM
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Well I think Charles is the most prepared not necessarily because he's been doing it the longest but because he started young and he got a lot of preparation at still a young age. By the time Charles was 21, he had already given a speech in Parliament, and by the time he was William's age he had already represented the Queen on many trips abroad, including one to the United States and Nixon's White House when he was still in his early 20s.

Also Charles has taken the Queen's place in a lot of the more private but still important ceremonies of the job including the investitures.

When you think of the monarch's role, giving public speeches, representing your country abroad, and bestowing honours on worthy citizens are the three of the most important duties of a monarch. The fact that Charles started and was relatively successful at these royal responsibilities when he was still in his early 20s represents very good training. Of course he's had a lot more practice since then but I think the basic training was good from the start.

I mentioned Victoria because I read once that she was going through a particular course of study and work that was designed to prepare her for her future role. Somewhat like a Monarch in training study program. The article mentioned that this type of planned out course of study was unusual for the heirs to the thrones of Europe.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2007, 11:32 AM
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I don't know enough about Frederik to say whether he is well or badly prepared. I think he may not give the impression of not being well prepared because he tends to mumble when making a speech but that type of habit is particularly hard to break even with a lot of training.

I was going to mention Philippe but didn't again because I don't know too much about his training. I see he's not effective in presenting himself in public but that just may be the way he is and not due to a lack of training.

The reason I was going to nominate Philippe is I wondered how much training he received since his father was the second son. I imagine when Philippe was born, he wasn't expected to assume the throne and so that may have influenced his upbringing.

I think Elizabeth II was fairly well trained given the circumstances, she had given a radio broadcast by the time she was 21 and she took her father's place in the Commonwealth tour but I think her training suffered from the fact that she was 10 years old before she was even considered to inherit the throne and secondly because her father died when she was still 25 and hadn't that much experience as an adult royal. So she only had those years between the ages of 10 and 25 and for a good number of those years, Britain was plunged in a World War.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
When you think of the monarch's role, giving public speeches, representing your country abroad, and bestowing honours on worthy citizens are the three of the most important duties of a monarch.
The Netherlands monarch's role it is even so that there is murmuring so now and then about the Queen's apparent interference in sensitive political dossiers. There is no one who denies the Queen's influence. The so-called Margarita-affair showed an unbelievable willingness of Government services to run for and to serve and to please 'Noordeinde' (the palace), even without informing the responsible ministers. The Netherlands Sovereign is also (unlike many colleagues) an integral part of the Government, she is president of the Council of State, which is the supreme Court of Administration and without its advice no any Bill can be passed. She sees all ministers and state-secretaries in a three-month shift (the premier weekly) besides all the governors, the most important mayors, high-rank military officers, etc. All this, build up in 50 years (as Heiress and Sovereign) gives her a central formal position which is intrinsically 'heavier' due to the uncatchable 'informal influence', the grey area in which the Queen feels like a fish in the water. The Queen's Cabinet Office is in the core centre of all legislative processes.

You will understand that the purely ceremonial role for the future Queen Victoria of Sweden or the future King Frederik of Denmark needs another preparation than the spider-in-the-web role of the future King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2007, 12:39 PM
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I think Charles is least prepared.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:25 PM
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Two reasons

Maybe it depends on the age of the future King/Queen and the relation to their predecessor or to the people.
I wonder at what time f.i. Victoria will feel (or is said) educated enough to become Queen. Does she still have to learn f.i. Chinese or so? Sometimes in her case I think they only tell her to learn more and more just to avoid that she marries Daniel...
It´s a pity with Phillippe of Belgium. Even the marriage with wonderful Mathilde doesn´t seem to have helped him to become more popular or alter his character or so. In my opinion still the most photogenic and really "royal" couple of all future Kings-couples.
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:29 PM
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[quote=Henri M.][quote=ysbel]When you think of the monarch's role, giving public speeches, representing your country abroad, and bestowing honours on worthy citizens are the three of the most important duties of a monarch.
Quote:

The Netherlands monarch's role it is even so that there is murmuring so now and then about the Queen's apparent interference in sensitive political dossiers. There is no one who denies the Queen's influence. The so-called Margarita-affair showed an unbelievable willingness of Government services to run for and to serve and to please 'Noordeinde' (the palace), even without informing the responsible ministers. The Netherlands Sovereign is also (unlike many colleagues) an integral part of the Government, she is president of the Council of State, which is the supreme Court of Administration and without its advice no any Bill can be passed. She sees all ministers and state-secretaries in a three-month shift (the premier weekly) besides all the governors, the most important mayors, high-rank military officers, etc. All this, build up in 50 years (as Heiress and Sovereign) gives her a central formal posotion which is intrinsically 'heavier' due to the uncatchable 'informal influence', the grey area in which the Queen feels like a fish in the water. The Queen's Cabinet Office is in the core centre of all legislative processes.

You will understand that the purely ceremonial role for the future Queen Victoria of Sweden or the future King Frederik of Denmark needs another preparation than the spider-in-the-web role of the future King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands.
You make a good point Henri but I thought there was legislation in the Dutch parliament to limit the monarch's role in the Netherlands for the future. Is that true?
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:40 PM
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Over WA's (and Beatrix's) dead body

[quote=ysbel][quote=Henri M.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
When you think of the monarch's role, giving public speeches, representing your country abroad, and bestowing honours on worthy citizens are the three of the most important duties of a monarch.

You make a good point Henri but I thought there was legislation in the Dutch parliament to limit the monarch's role in the Netherlands for the future. Is that true?
Not that I know of. There is no debate or legislation in the States-General to change the formal position of the Sovereign, by lack of any support amongst the main parties to change the present situation.

Since 604 years the Orange-Nassaus are the Netherlands premier family and in everything you feel it is one of the few remaining 'political taboos' amongst the main parties, to discuss the monarchy.

Even the former maoïstic and very left Socialistic Party (which won a lot of seats last elections) declared that the desire for a republican form of state has been put in the refrigerator. (They understood they would never become a mainstream factor in politics with such an 'extremist' (in Dutch situation) opinion).

By the way, it is known from the Queen and the Prince of Orange (and openly stated so by the Prince in an interview) that they see nothing at all in a 'kingship without content'. The Prince more or less stated that in such a case he will thank for the honour and avoid such a kingship.
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:48 PM
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How do ya like them apples?

I believe all of the heirs apparent are as well prepared as they can be for the time being. Over time an individual ongoing education and exposed to many situations which allow him to learn from then and prepare themselves for the road that lies ahead. For this reason I believe Charles is most prepared to become King. He has been preparing himself for quite sometime. I also feel that Guillaume is the least prepared but by no fault of his own. I think he is simply too young and would be better suited to continue his education and take in as much from his father as he can.
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  #31  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:48 PM
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Most Prepared overall - Prince Charles (he has quite a few years on the other crown princes!)

Most Prepared in the younger generation - Prince Felip of Spain - I think he could take over today and Spain wouldn't miss a beat!

Least Prepared - Prince Frederick - not that I doubt his abilities, just his exposure to the day to day running for the monarchy and it's duties.
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  #32  
Old 02-13-2007, 02:54 PM
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I think Charles and Felipe are the most prepared. They show dedication and a commitment to their jobs which I just don't see in other CP's. They seem well-prepared to take whatever their role my throw at them.

The least prepared is definitely Frederik. Aside from his poor work schedule, he just doesn't seem dedicated to his role. I've followed the DRF for years and had hoped Fred would grow into his role as he seemed so disinterested when younger. It seems it is something he has carried through.

He appears to display little or no real effort or interest. Moreover, having such a formidable predecessor means that he has to give 110% just to live up to his mother. The day he does that, pigs will be soaring in the sky.
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  #33  
Old 02-13-2007, 03:22 PM
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I think there's a limit to how prepared any of the heirs can be for their future role. I think that until they are actually in the position, we won't know how prepared they truly were. The person can have a ton of technical knowledge and practical experience, but there are are many things that you just can't prepare for.

For example... what are the circumstances under which the person succeeds? Will it be the result of an abdication or the death of the monarch? Will the person end up serving as regent for an extended period of time (possibly even years) before the monarch dies or will it be something very sudden and unexpected? Does he or she have a very young family or are the children teenagers or adults by that time? What's the current political climate in the country? How loved is the monarch and how accepting will the people be of the new one?

Also, as history has shown sometimes you end up with someone who was never expected to reign. That person certainly wouldn't have had the level of preparation as the previous heir, but that doesn't mean he or she won't do a good job.
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  #34  
Old 02-13-2007, 05:19 PM
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I think Naruhito or Haakon are the best prepared to be emperor/king.
The least one is Frederick.
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  #35  
Old 02-13-2007, 06:33 PM
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I have to say I enjoy your posts Henri M. I have seen many of your posts in the Belgium forums and you are always very informative, which I think is great since I'm trying to learn about royal families. Sidenote: So Queen Beatrix is a perfectionist, that's very interesting. I have to admit I am too.


Ysbel I also appreciate very much all the info you've provided, I didn't know all that about Charles and Queen Elizabeth.
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2007, 06:40 PM
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Definitely Prince Charles is the most prepared not only because he has been preparing himself for a long time but also because he shows dedication and commitment for his job.
Of the younger generation I'd choose Princess Victoria.
Anyway I think all European crown princes are well-prepared, so I can't see why so many people say Prince Frederik is the least prepared.
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2007, 06:49 PM
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Is anyone ever really prepared for the death of a parent or the burden of a State? I don't think so...not even Charles!
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2007, 06:58 PM
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Most prepared:
Prince Charles, Crown Prince Felipe and Crown Princess Victoria.
Reason:
I chose these three because of the same reason - their dedication and the professionalism they are performing their duties.


Least prepared:
I don't think I can name one. All of the current Heirs are doing their job in such a great way that I have little doubts they will make wonderful Monarchs.

Least prepared in past:
I think one current Monarch that was least prepared to become King is King Abdullah of Jordan.
Reason:
He became Crown Prince and subsequently King rather unexpectedly and in a very short time. However, he has proved to be a very professional and able Monarch.
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  #39  
Old 02-13-2007, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Is anyone ever really prepared for the death of a parent or the burden of a State? I don't think so...not even Charles!
Well if that's true, Madame Royale, we'll have to change the question to who is least badly prepared for the throne (is that good English?)

So my opinion of the least badly prepared heirs to the throne: I still say Charles and Victoria.
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  #40  
Old 02-13-2007, 07:28 PM
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Beatrix Regina Perfectissimae / the Queen's legendaric wrath

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora810
I have to say I enjoy your posts Henri M.
Thanks, your pleasure is my pleasure.

Quote:
Sidenote: So Queen Beatrix is a perfectionist, that's very interesting.
Yes, Queen Beatrix is known as a perfectioniste-avant-la-lettre and it is known that she uses the whip in the royal household organization (figurally). Her anger is feared and politicians or officials who (in her eye) make a mess of their business, of have 'let her down' or did misuse her confidence can rely on her legendaric wrath. There are a lot of witnesses who tell about a sort of freezing in her face, under that majestic bulletproof hairdo, with staring eyes and a slightly moved eyebrow. I have read comparisons with Medusa, the mythical monster which can transform people in crumbling stone with her prying eyes.... Ministers have had shaking knees under Queen Beatrix' deadly disapproval.

But she can also really destroy people's lives. See Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn, the former spouse of her godchild and niece Princess Margarita de Bourbon de Parme. He has fallen deeply and now is a totally broken man, financially and socially. Almost like a pariah. Mainly to his own actions, but public disapproval of the Royal House really does not help you in the Netherlands.

The Queen was not loved in the first half of her Reign. The culture-shock from her much loved 'call me mrs. please' mother with her 'organized mess' to Queen Beatrix' very professionalized, streamlined and ISO-certified court organization could not be bigger. Also the almost obsessive division between public an private, which was almost non-apparent under Queen Juliana, gave the impression of a far away, aloof, distant and arrogant Queen Beatrix.

At the same time the palaces have not been in such sparkling state, ceremonies were never so perfect as under Queen Beatrix. And... she is the only Queen who will end her Reign with a more powerful position for the Sovereign than she started with. That is quite a prestation in present times where monarchies more and more becomes an 'ornament of state', something which has always fiercely been opposed by Queen Beatrix (and Prince Willem-Alexander).
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