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  #61  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:18 PM
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The old myth about first cousins sprouting three-headed imbecile offspring has been debunked.

King Harald of Norway is a good example. He and his older sisters come from 2 generations of first cousins marrying each other. King Harald has had cancer but that has been tracked down to his smoking-not his parents being first cousins and his sisters are now in their late 70s early 80s and still in relatively good health for their ages.

Two families that repeatedly married first cousins, the Wedgewoods and the Darwins, had spectacularly brilliant offspring.
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  #62  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:20 PM
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I think some people are unsuited to a royal role

Not because of their birth, but because of their character/personality. Sarah Ferguson could not handle the restrictions of royal life.
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  #63  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:29 PM
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If we are taling personality wise, I completely agree that things other than love should come into play when considering a marriage, such as shared values, morals etc. But in this case, I believe Russian was speaking to his idea that there has been marriages between people who are not "equal". A person must also be suited to play the role that they marry into, should there in fact be a role to play, so I agree that the Tsarina was ill suited. She could of course have been trained better to her role. But I would imagine that when her parents considered her training when she was younger, it was not a thought in their minds that she would marry a ruling monarch. Whereas, say Catherine of Aragon was raised to be espoused to a monarch.
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  #64  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:55 PM
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I totally agree with you Empress. I was a fanatic of the Romanov family and my research of Empress Alexandra was not very favorable. If I remember correctly, either she couldn't speak Russian fluently or she refused to speak it, but she spoke to her children in German and I think to her husband in Russian, and she was a supporter of Nicholas II's autocratic rule in Russia. Oh yeah, and she didn't like the way the Russian Royal Family behaved themselves in public and private. All this made her a unfavorable empress with the russian people. Plus, her mother died when she was 6. and she spent most of her childhood with her english relatives, including her grandmother Queen Victoria. One would think that she would have learned something from her.
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  #65  
Old 02-20-2007, 10:10 PM
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I believe the best thing is to marry for love and not money, power or acceptence. Now in days royals are choosing to marry commoners and not follow royals. Because it has been said before all european royals are related in some way so they want to get away from that and marry someone their not related to and someone they love. Some royal marriages were arranged but now in days they have more of a chance to choose their parnter rather than their parents.
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  #66  
Old 03-17-2010, 09:54 PM
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Mesalliance, Salic laws and blue blood

I understand mesalliance would be an issue for someone of the highest rank in the territory ie Prince William or who must consider their descendant's lineage and current stature and possible descendency but commoners often provide more attributes like wealth, intelligence, personality and priviledge with all the new heirs and heiresses due to the capital class.

Salic laws also prohibit many European nobility from passing on title and/or property usually on the female side but if commoners can provide similar attributes as described above it really depends on what the higher ranked individual values.

The term Blue Blood infers ancestry, class, property and breeding but if commoners can acquire even a few of those elements, it really is no longer an issue.
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  #67  
Old 06-22-2010, 09:06 PM
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I believe that monarchies loose power, when members of a royal family marry normal people, by doing so the royal families destroy their own institution. A monarchy can only sustain itself with royal blood, once the royal blood is gone it is no longer a real monarchy, but merely some state institution, which looses all legitimacy to call itself a monarchy. I believe that if a crownprince decides to marry below his rank, he should at least have the decency to reject the crown..
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  #68  
Old 07-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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A lot of us have blood from "ancient aristocratic families," - but we're still commoners!
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  #69  
Old 07-09-2011, 03:15 PM
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How awful before for danish and swedish Princes. They lost their title for being Count Bernadotte (Queen Astrid's brother and others) and Count Rosenberg (Count Fleming and others)
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  #70  
Old 07-13-2011, 05:50 PM
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Five princes have been thrown out of the Swedish succession for marrying the "wrong" women. This actually lead to a crisis after Gustaf Adolf, our king's father, died in an accident. Two of his brothers and two of his cousins had been thrown out of the sucession, and when king Gustaf V died in 1950 and was succeeded by Gustaf VI Adolf, the crown prince position was put on a four-year-old boy. And a lot of responsiblity was put on prince Bertil, the only prince in his generation, who still was alive and in the succession. He had thought about marrying Lilian Craig already in the 1940s, but he couldn't do it after his brother's tragical death.
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  #71  
Old 07-14-2011, 03:45 PM
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What happened in Sweden is a good example of pig-headed "House Rules" bringing a dynasty to the verge of extinction in the male line.
When Prince Gustaf Adolf died in a plane crash in January 1947 there were something like 2 Prince Bernadottes and 7 Count Bernadottes who were all excluded from the succession.

The remaining male royals were the King (born 1858), the Crown Prince (1882), Prince Eugen (1865), Prince Wilhelm (1884), Prince Bertil (1912, but committed to Lilian Craig) and the dynasty's last and only hope of survival, Prince Carl Gustaf, who was just 9 months old. Dynastic suicide was narrowly averted.
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  #72  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:01 AM
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That's what I'm talking about. We were really close to a crisis.
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  #73  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:38 PM
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Morganatic? Marriage in the 21st Century

I've just been reading an article about the forthcoming Prussian twins which deals with other sets of twins in the family. Royal Musings: Twins in the royal house of Prussia
The article mentions the marriages of these people and their parents and makes mention that some of the marriages are considered morganatic by the Prussian Royal House.
I am incredulous that a family which has no policitical presence, no kingdom, no lands and not much more than a name is still enforcing this type of medieval thinking on its members. It also appears linked to how wealthy the proposed spouse is. There is no mention that Princess Antonia's marriage to Charles Wellessly was considered unequal. Obviously the Wellesley fortune eased that path.
What do other think? Is the idea of morganatic/unequal marriage appropriate in the 21st century, especially in houses that no longer reign?
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  #74  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:53 PM
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Of course it's not appriopriate, even in the reigning houses, because Monarchies (at least European ones) lost its main political significance, and in past ages politics was the main "ingredient" of a Royal marriage.
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  #75  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:54 PM
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Well Princess Antonia has a pretty sizable fortune of her own given that she is a Guinness heiress so money was never an issue with that union.

I do think the idea of morganatic marriages is ridiculous in this day and age, most especially since those former royal and princely families are legally commoners who just happpen to have an interesting set of ancestors. I suppose for them it is an attept at hanging on to whatever glimmer of royalty they can. I doubt a reigning royal family could ever get away with such a thing. Their people would probably be quite upset at such an idea in the 21st century.
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  #76  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:56 PM
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Here, in Brazil, the Imperial Family is still enforcing a House Law that dictates tha our Dynasts have to marry equally, to retain their succession right and titles (the Brazilian Monarchy was abolished by a coup d'etat in 1889). And this have the approval of the major part of the Monarchists in Brazil (we are 21% of the population).
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  #77  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:59 PM
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Aren't some of the non-reigning Houses bound by various House Laws which require equal marriages? Laws they can't, as far as I know, change all that easily.
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  #78  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Aren't some of the non-reigning Houses bound by various House Laws which require equal marriages? Laws they can't, as far as I know, change all that easily.
Well, the Head of the Brazilian Imperial House is able to change the House Laws, but he does not seem to want to do that, nor the Monarchists are in favor of a change.
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  #79  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:05 PM
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This may be a silly question, but what is an "equal" marriage? Is it birth, wealth, religion ?????

2nd question: If House Laws aren't changed, then doesn't this mean that these royal houses are eventually going to die out?
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  #80  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
This may be a silly question, but what is an "equal" marriage? Is it birth, wealth, religion ?????

2nd question: If House Laws aren't changed, then doesn't this mean that these royal houses are eventually going to die out?
1. Equal marriage usually means marriage between two people of equal birth and rank (royal-royal, noble-noble, sometimes royal-noble, etc). It's based on the legal requirement of Ebenburtigkeit (marriage selection restricted by the principle of equality of birth).

Morganatic (unequal) marriage in the context of royalty means a marriage between people of unequal rank, which usually prevents the passage of titles, succession rights and other privileges to the spouse and issue from the marriage. For instance, Louis XIV's second marriage was morganatic, which is why Madame de Maintenon was never Queen of France.

Quite a few of the former monarchies, as well as the current ones in the past, required members of the royal families to marry fellow royals. In that respect, Britain (and before that, England and Scotland) was one of the few countries that never had the concept of a morganatic marriage.

In some cases, there were even stricter restriction; for instance, Russian Grand Dukes and Duchesses would lose their place in the succession line if they didn't marry a person from a reigning royal family (which is why some cast doubt the marriage of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's parents was equal; although Princess Leonida was from a royal family, her family hadn't reigned in Georgia for centuries).

Religious limitations exist in many royal houses, but they don't have anything to do with equality of marriage.


2. I'm afraid that's more or less inevitable.
If they don't display more flexibillity, at some point there will simply be no eligible heir.
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