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  #381  
Old 10-13-2016, 09:20 PM
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The vacations that the President takes may be paid for by the President himself for himself and his family but we need to remember too that wherever the President goes, so does the Office of the President of the United States of America. One thing the President never completely does is get a vacation away from his job. Staff, Secret Service and security checks of the venue and many more things are very necessary when the President travels and these people need their salaries paid and their accommodations paid for and the President doesn't cover that out of his own pocket. Some of these kind of people remain with a President even after he is out of office.

Its basically the same thing with a monarch. No matter where he/she goes, there is still the staff and security and such to put into consideration. High profile people are high profile risks no matter where they are.

Its a price we pay no matter what kind of a head of state a nation has.
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  #382  
Old 10-13-2016, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
And, her [Elizabeth] life is certainly not threatened as our president might be.
Queen Victoria had several attempts on her life.
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  #383  
Old 10-13-2016, 11:01 PM
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King Edward VIII and the present Queen both had shots fired at them during the Trooping of the Colour ceremony. The fact that they were situations involving blanks and the perpetrators were arrested immediately doesn't make any similar situation less serious. Other members of the BRF, Charles and Anne, for example also had people wishing to harm them.
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  #384  
Old 10-13-2016, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
King Edward VIII and the present Queen both had shots fired at them during the Trooping of the Colour ceremony. The fact that they were situations involving blanks and the perpetrators were arrested immediately doesn't make any similar situation less serious. Other members of the BRF, Charles and Anne, for example also had people wishing to harm them.
Who can forget the attempted kidnapping of Anne?

The Bloody Attempt to Kidnap a British Princess | History | Smithsonian

“Open, or I’ll shoot!” he yelled.

In response to one of Ball’s pleas, Princess Anne retorted, “Bloody likely.”

'If the man had succeeded in abducting Anne, she would have given him a hell of a time in captivity.'
Prince Philip
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  #385  
Old 10-14-2016, 08:35 AM
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US presidents do NOT pay the costs of their vacations.

Air Force One costs $210,000 per hour of flight. If the president paid for that, 2 hours of flying time would consume the president's entire annual salary.

Plus the Secret Service and a whole entourage of people travel with the first family, and the hotel rooms and travel costs for all of them are paid by taxpayers.

Presidential vacations cost the taxpayers millions of dollars--and that applies to both Republican and Democratic presidents.

The British Royal Family flies commercially; I find that odd, but they even sometimes fly coach (likely just for show). I'm sure that they usually travel in paid first class and also have an expensive entourage of people, but it likely is cheaper than Air Force One.
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  #386  
Old 10-14-2016, 10:54 AM
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With all the trashtalking in the US presidential election show, i wish that there were an option for Michelle Obama to be a regent after Barack Obama stops reigning

I know it won't happen and that it's not the US way, but how can either of these candidates be taken seriously after all is said and done in this season's election-show...

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  #387  
Old 10-14-2016, 11:45 AM
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I think Michelle Obama is a wonder. The dignity with which she has conducted herself while receiving the kind of denigration and abuse I have NEVER in my lifetime seen directed toward a FLOTUS is admirable.

Barack Obama struck gold when he got her to agree to marry him.

But she has made it crystal clear that unlike former First Lady Hillary Clinton she harbors no political ambitions for herself whatsoever. Her main goal in life right now is guiding her lovely young daughters on the path to successful adulthood. In other words, motherhood trumps ambition for this woman.

Good for her, unfortunate for us.

I agree with you about the two candidates we have to choose from. Whomever is elected in a few weeks, I get the feeling that I am going to be echoing the words of one of the cardinals in conclave after the election of Borgia pope Alexander VI:

"Flee, for we are in the hands of a wolf!"
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  #388  
Old 10-14-2016, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The vacations that the President takes may be paid for by the President himself for himself and his family but we need to remember too that wherever the President goes, so does the Office of the President of the United States of America. One thing the President never completely does is get a vacation away from his job. Staff, Secret Service and security checks of the venue and many more things are very necessary when the President travels and these people need their salaries paid and their accommodations paid for and the President doesn't cover that out of his own pocket. Some of these kind of people remain with a President even after he is out of office.

Its basically the same thing with a monarch. No matter where he/she goes, there is still the staff and security and such to put into consideration. High profile people are high profile risks no matter where they are.

Its a price we pay no matter what kind of a head of state a nation has.
Yes, all the extras go with them, True enough. But they work for it for 4 years at a stretch, many hours a day, all the days they are in office. Bad or good they never leave office looking good. It takes it's toll. They are responsible for everything, the buck stops here. No waving and State Dinners as their sum. And the plane and many other perks are not a lifetime achievement. Constitutional monarchies are fine, for what they are in the places they have been for centuries. But, remember, those people were just born to it. They never work a day in their lives, BRF. Some of the Dutch princes, work at real jobs. And you have people such as the Greek Royal Family, who helped themselves to plenty and do nothing, including waving and state dinners.
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  #389  
Old 10-14-2016, 08:46 PM
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It seems that some posts are comparing chalk and cheese.

There is no comparison between the POTUS and a Constitutional Monarch.

The Monarch works with the Head of Government (elected in the Uk on a 5 yr cycle). Unelected, it has the benefits of continuity and being there as the representative of everyone, not just those who voted for them.

this has turned into a discussion of the American Presidency which is one form of Republic vs Uk Monarchy. There is more out there.

The Monarch has a unify role - King Felipe of Spain has a role unifying Spain as the country struggles to form a Government. That would be difficult if there was President elected on a political basis.

THere are different models - Germany and Ireland have Gov and selected Presidency

FRance has a model of Political Presidency and a Prime Minister.

EDIT there are also absolute monarchs, ie some Arab States. And then there are pseudo democratic Presidents - possibly Russia but that is a matter of opinion.

It would be great if the discussion was on a broader basis
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  #390  
Old 10-14-2016, 09:15 PM
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I agree with you, Cepe. To focus on one model of a republic with an elected president (usually the USA) vs. one constitutional monarchy (usually the UK) is really limiting models that other countries are using successfully or unsuccessfully depending how one looks at it. There are even defunct models of both kinds.

What is good about them? What is bad about them and what could we come up with that would astound the global population and get us members on TRF on the list for next year's Nobel Peace Prize? Heck, some may even argue the fact that the only real solution and way to go towards a governmental system that would really, really work would be a New World Order even. Or a total egalitarian world order where we all live happily together and drink milk and cookies and take afternoon naps.
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― John Lennon
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  #391  
Old 10-15-2016, 05:44 PM
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Yes, Cepe, the US president (or a president in a presidential systems) is certainly not the same as a constitutional monarch in Western Europe/the UK.

I think that the US presidential system should adopt more aspects of a constitutional monarchy or semi-presidential or parliamentary system--mainly a ceremonial "president", not elected as in the US model, and representative of everyone (or at least more than just one political party).

I may be wrong, but I believe that the US presidential office was originally designed to be like the UK monarch's position in the 1780s. Just as the latter position has changed significantly, so should the US presidential position.

I don't believe that the founding fathers of the US foresaw deep partisan division in the US, with the popularly-elected and powerful president heaping scorn on members of other political parties and otherwise creating division among Americans. Perhaps they would have established the presidency in a different way had they saw that coming.
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  #392  
Old 10-15-2016, 09:26 PM
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They saw the partisan division. They themselves disliked one another and distrusted one another. The New Englanders, did not like the southerners and hated slavery. A ceremonial position is nonsense. We have not had a president that "heaped scorn" on other4s. W. Bush got his way, but he was a decent man, not bright, but decent. Cheney was the problem. Too much money for someone who has no power and no real input. The Monarchies in Europe, which are long standing and have worked well within that system, seem fine. But a waste of money. England who seems to always have financial troubles, spend a great deal on ceremonies . They make money freom tourists from this. But their vast wealth has be purloined by getting tax free status for numerous years and stealing land and venues that filled their pockets. Look at the queen's jewels. They are beautiful, but what a waste. "Granny chips" could build 20 hospitals.
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  #393  
Old 10-16-2016, 10:14 AM
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By "partisan", I mean "political party" partisan. There were no political parties when the US was first organized. George Washington was nonpartisan and was picked with overwhelming support.

I'd think that Democrats would say that George W. Bush scorned them. Republicans certainly think that Obama scorned them, calling them "enemies" and people who "cling" to guns and religion and whatever. Hillary called a large part of the electorate "deplorables". Those are all nasty remarks and both sides are culpable.

I'd doubt that the UK spends more per capita on ceremonies and the monarchy than the US spends on ceremonies and the presidency.
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