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  #301  
Old 12-24-2012, 06:04 PM
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Well, obviously monarchs (tribal leaders, chiefs and others) were initially chosen by people. But then again, the strongest leaders capable of protecting the people and country in times of troubles were chosen; monarchs were expected to physically lead armies, make laws and oversee justice. All of those duties are no longer relevant in our times.
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  #302  
Old 12-24-2012, 06:10 PM
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I for one hope that all remaining European monarchies stay in place!
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  #303  
Old 12-24-2012, 07:07 PM
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I hope all Europeans choose for themselves what kind of government they want.
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  #304  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
All I can say is that if the US had a monarch as head of state, our elected officials would spend more time getting things done and less time campaigning for positions that cost billions of dollars.
Osipi..I dont agree with the context of ur opinion. If US were a monarchy, it will mostly be a constitutional one, and still there will be pwerful Prime Ministers and Ministers, who will still be spending billions for campaigns..You say you want absolute monarchy, just to limit campaign costs? then I am afraid it is a really really terrible idea, in this age, for that country.
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  #305  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:52 PM
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the guardian is pretty much republican newspapaer i wouldn't exactly rely on them for a acurate tale of the fatcs
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  #306  
Old 12-30-2012, 09:07 PM
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I don't understand why anyone would want an absolute monarchy simply because of campaigns and their costs? Why suppress the will of the people and have one person or one family making all the decisions for millions?
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  #307  
Old 12-30-2012, 09:34 PM
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I am in favour of a constitutional monarchy for the UK.

The main benefit of this is the exclusion of politics for the Head of State. IMO as soon as you decide on electing a Head of State, politics rears its ugly head. Either those standing for the position are overtly political, ie supported by a specific political party; or the alternative is seemly non-political. But the person standing for Head of State surely must state their beliefs or views. As soon as this occurs, these views will become small "p" political. Environment, support of charities, helping the homeless; the Arts; multi-cultural; public transport; support for the elderly; education; the military.............. all can have a political edge.

Prime Ministers of Uk have always said that the political neutrality of the monarchy and their ability to speak in confidence about issues has been good for their term of office.

It works for the Uk and I wouldn't want to change it.
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  #308  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:58 PM
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good grief

[QUOTE=thomaspaine;1326728]Hmm my topic has been merged.

One more thing.How many of you know that after the australian double dissolution which was ordered by the queen Both the Pm's of australia were the original force behind the republic referendum of 1999 and the monarch says that she has no authority to remove.The governor generals are the agents of the queen.
The queen is visiting Australia as to see if her puppet gillard can push the carbon tax.It is the queen who is pushing for carbon tax.If gillard failed then she would have been removed.

The house of hanover learned from thier mistakes of george the III.Now its done via stealth and all blame is taken by the governor general.

Another Article by D.M
Sayonara #6 - Royal Incubators

May I just say as an Aussie of a certain age, still living in Australia, who was a teenager during the Whitlam years and remembers this era and the dismissal very well, that you might have the wrong end of the stick here? Do you know/understand the trigger mechanism for double dissolutions under our Constitution? Why the Govt of the day couldn't continue to govern? Why the matter had to go back to the people in the form of a new Election being held?
The Queen ordered both PMs. Huh? Which PMs and to do what?

Governors & Governors General: do you understand how they are selected and their role?

You keep referencing "DM"? Im guessing that's The London Daily Mail as there hasn't been a newspaper with those initials here for over 20years. Why you would reference an English paper regarding Australian issues is a bit puzzling.

The Queen, PM Gillard and the carbon tax? I really don't know where you're getting this from.
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  #309  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

ThomasPaine, No one cares, because you never listen to the arguments put up against you.
Tillian, did you see the post from Muhler? Honestly, it makes sense...ThomasPaine's posts on Australia seem off the planet to me.

Does TP really believe what TP posts? WOW!
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  #310  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lox View Post
I'm a republican. It's appalling that the position of head of state is still hereditary in some modern democracies. .
Appalling? It is far more appalling to have a Head of State who, at best, was selected by 51% of the population, is a self-centered political animal who serves his party and contributors.
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Originally Posted by LadyK View Post
I think the problem would be justifying the tax increase, as monarchies generally have very high taxes, but provide its citizens more services, such as state healthcare. Denmark, for example, has almost a 50% income tax!
It is the elected government, not the monarchs who decide the tax rates. Put the blame exactly where it belongs. Michele Obama costs us far more than most members of a royal family.

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Originally Posted by KelliB View Post
This is a topic of considerable debate in my country. We held a referendum (defeated, obviously) to decide whether Australia should become a republic. There are still many republicans in Australia, however, and the debate certainly hasn't gone away.

The Australian (and New Zealand, Canadian etc) situation is complicated by the fact that our Queen doesn't live in our country and isn't a "citizen" of our nation. However, my personal opinion is that a constitutional monarchy has more reliable checks and balances, offers tradition and ritual (necessary for the functioning of a healthy society) and isn't prey to, or influenced by, the lure of the mighty dollar in the way that some republics seem to be.

I like being part of a constitutional monarchy, I like the continued ties QEII provides to Great Britain and the rest of the Commonwealth. Long live the Queen.
The tradition, the link with the mother country and the continuity are all wonderful things.

Most European, Asian and Middle Eastern countries would be better off with monarchs.
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  #311  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:57 PM
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The problem with an elected "Head of State" is that about half the citizens didn't vote for them. From 1992 though 2004. We had a President that most Americans did not vote for. How does it make any sence to have an elected head of State that most people don't support?

In our last three elections we were about evenly divided. Which means 1/2 the people support the Head of State... with the other half hating him.

Not saying I prefer a Monarch, but the idea that an elected Head of State is preferable ignores cultural considerations. Every nation is different what works in one will not work in another.
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  #312  
Old 10-12-2013, 10:34 PM
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The way I see it, Britain wouldn't be Britain without the Monarchy and America wouldn't be America without the President.

I know many can argue up and down about the costs of these Heads of State and their families but I expect and accept that it's an expensive operation to run. I think it's all worth it, IMO.
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  #313  
Old 06-02-2014, 09:46 PM
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A monarch represents tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics. He or she is beholden to the people.

A president, premier, prime minster, chancellor is simply someone who owes his soul to the men with money who put him in power.
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  #314  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Horthy View Post
A monarch represents tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics. He or she is beholden to the people.

A president, premier, prime minster, chancellor is simply someone who owes his soul to the men with money who put him in power.
You have hit the nail squarely on the head. The monarch definitely reigns at the will of the people.

Your observation of the dynamics of a political Head of State is, unfortunately and most uncomfortably, valid. The notion of a Government "of the people, by the people and for the people" is inherently flawed as each member of government owes their political position to the number of rich individuals and even richer industries willing to spend enough money to fund their campaigns. Their first alliegence is to those who paid for them and their second to the people who elected them.

I think I will definitely remain in "Camp Monarchy" where there is at least the illusion of altruism.
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  #315  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Horthy View Post
A monarch represents tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics. He or she is beholden to the people.

A president, premier, prime minster, chancellor is simply someone who owes his soul to the men with money who put him in power.
One thing I can attest to in regards to elected officials is that they're elected into office for a certain amount of time and by the time they actually get around to doing anything, its time to elect new ones. Go figure.
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  #316  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Horthy View Post
A monarch represents tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics. He or she is beholden to the people.

A president, premier, prime minster, chancellor is simply someone who owes his soul to the men with money who put him in power.
[my bolding]
Your observations are very very accurate. At the same time, I have to say that your observations about the elected politicians fully apply to the current reigning houses. A media image of a royal house shows its "tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics". However, a royal house relies on oppressive elements in a governmental system (riot police, military) to protect them from subjects they are beholden to. A royal house relies on its legislators, who derive some benefits from supporting the existing régime. This means that a monarch is a consensus figure that is supported by and relies on people behind a throne, who are owed by rich people.
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  #317  
Old 06-03-2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

One thing I can attest to in regards to elected officials is that they're elected into office for a certain amount of time and by the time they actually get around to doing anything, its time to elect new ones. Go figure.
If we are lucky. Unfortunately they get reelected so they can finish up the damage they started.
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  #318  
Old 06-03-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
[my bolding]
Your observations are very very accurate. At the same time, I have to say that your observations about the elected politicians fully apply to the current reigning houses. A media image of a royal house shows its "tradition, continuity and the ability to reign while being above politics". However, a royal house relies on oppressive elements in a governmental system (riot police, military) to protect them from subjects they are beholden to. A royal house relies on its legislators, who derive some benefits from supporting the existing régime. This means that a monarch is a consensus figure that is supported by and relies on people behind a throne, who are owed by rich people.
But the man or woman who inherits the crown is there by the grace of God, or by an accident of birth, which ever you prefer, and not at the whim of a fickle public or devious bankers. They didn't get there by chicanery.
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  #319  
Old 06-03-2014, 09:42 PM
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If we are lucky. Unfortunately they get reelected so they can finish up the damage they started.

So true!
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  #320  
Old 06-04-2014, 02:50 AM
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Whichever system a country has, I think the most important thing is that the Head of State should NOT be political. It fills me with horror every time there is a presidential election and one sees the head of state going on television telling his people that they should vote for him and then proceeding to dismiss half his own nation by slagging off the other candidate whom they support.
How awful it would be if ever we saw the Queen addressing the nation and dismissing those who would wish a republic, or telling us to vote for one political party over the other.
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