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  #261  
Old 06-20-2015, 09:53 AM
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Baudouin of the Belgians married the pedigreed highborn Dona Fabiola de Mora y Aragon, and the result was one of the happiest marriages and greatest love stories in modern Royal history.(Baudouin himself insisted on an aristocrat, he would not have had it any other way.)

His nephew Philippe also chose an aristocrat, descended from ancient Polish and Flemish nobility. I have rarely seen a more connected and happier couple than Philippe and Mathilde.

Prince Joachim of Denmark married commoner Alexandra Manley in a fairytale love match. The result was a divorce.

The Crown Prince of Japan fell for a brilliant and well connected commoner named Masako Owada. The result was an emotional breakdown and an "adjustment disorder" that has lasted almost 20 years.

There have been seriously disturbing rumors about the state of the marriage of Prince Haakon of Norway and the former Mette-Marit Hoiby which reached a crescendo last summer and which the Palace has never bothered to deny.

My point is that posters who continuously use the disastrous example of Charles/Diana as the reason why Royals should choose always commoners are forgetting the scores of very solid and successful Royal/Royal and Royal/aristocrat marriages. It works both ways, and depends on the people involved.

Charles and Diana were emotionally and temperamentally unsuited for one another. The marriage would likely have failed even if her father had been a mail carrier.
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  #262  
Old 06-20-2015, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Not to make this all about female 'arm candy'

HRH Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark was born on a kitchen table. Raised as a nomad, passed from family member to family member. He wasn't accustomed to servants or grand homes and yet he proves to be a capable consort to Queen Elizabeth II.

Philip has a very illustrious pedigree but it is his life experiences that make him a good consort, not his belonging to the House of Glucksburg.
Yes the poor Queen Elizabeth. He married a poor homeless guy had not the sun fate and saved him.
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  #263  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Baudouin of the Belgians married the pedigreed Dona Fabiola de Mora y Aragon, and the result was one of the happiest marriages and greatest love stories in modern Royal history.(Baudouin himself insisted on an aristocrat, he would not have had it any other way.)


His nephew Philippe also chose an aristocrat, descended from ancient Polish and Flemish nobility. I have rarely seen a more connected and happier couple than Philippe and Mathilde.

Prince Joachim of Denmark married commoner Alexandra Manley in a fairytale love match. The result was a divorce.

My point is that posters who continuously use the disastrous example of Charles/Diana as the reason why Royals should choose always commoners are forgetting the scores of very solid and successful Royal/Royal and Royal/aristocrat marriages. It works both ways, and depends on the people involved.

Charles and Diana were emotionally and temperamentally unsuited for one another. The marriage would likely have failed even if her father had been a mail carrier.
I think people are pointing out a royal should marry the person they love.

Some seem to be of the belief that royals should only marry other royals no matter how incompatible they may be.

Prince Guillaume's mother is a 'commoner' and she has been a very good consort. If noble born Stephanie is half as good she will have done well.

Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark is a good consort because of his life experiences and who he is as an individual. Philip may be royal born but his upbringing was as pedestrian as it comes.
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  #264  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:19 AM
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I agree about Maria-Teresa Mestre. She is wonderful and Stephanie would do well to emulate her....with the exception of the unseemly and embarrassing whinging to the press MT did about her mother in law, which I am 100% certain Stephanie would never consider under any circumstances even if she had cause.

No matter how "pedestrian" Philip's upbringing was I am willing to bet he was never allowed to forget who he was, and he never considered himself one of the guys. Are there any stories of him socializing with and romancing working class individuals before he married Elizabeth?

And we will agree to disagree that the only thing the members of a Royal house should consider when choosing a partner is love. There are many other things like background , temperament and suitability that should be considered as well.

I am far from Royal and would never marry someone only because I felt some sort of romantic "love" for that person and disregard all else . I would never advise a friend to do so either. The idea is beyond foolish.
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  #265  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:23 AM
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Prince Phillip is purported to have cut a wide path thru the ladies...I would imagine they came from both sides of the fence.


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  #266  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:27 AM
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I have read rumors about his activities during his marriage. I am not talking about mistresses and side pieces.

My question is did he have any serious romances/relationships with commoners as a bachelor Prince?
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  #267  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:30 AM
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Oh I don't know...even if he did, back then things were much more quiet...the media didn't focus on them like now.

I'm not talking about his behavior while married...although we know that sometimes those are long term affairs.


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  #268  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:35 AM
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Courtiers as well as the Establishment were dead set against Prince Philip. The thought of a penniless 'European' prince marrying the heir to the British throne was not a popular one.

Many wanted Princess Elizabeth to marry a wealthy British Duke and Prince Philip had to work to win over King George VI.
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  #269  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:41 AM
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Courtiers and the Establishment were indeed dead set against Philip, but they eventually caved.

Something they would never have done if his father had been an airline pilot, for example. Elizabeth would have been shown the door just like her Uncle David was.
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  #270  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:49 AM
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I think especially because of what happened with Edward there's no way Elizabeth would of been able to marry elsewhere (and poor Margaret got caught in that), not that she wanted too...it's said she met Phillip at 14 and she was pretty fixed on him as a future spouse from that point forward..
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  #271  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:51 AM
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I don't know what Edward was shown the door...as I understand it Churchill tried to resolve things by allowing Wallis to be married to him but not be queen...talk of a Morgantic (spelling?) marriage etc. But really...I don't think in the end that Edward wanted the job.


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  #272  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:59 AM
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The people themselves were dead set against Wallis Warfield Simpson. "HANDS OFF OUR KING!!" were some of the protest signs in the streets they carried against her.

In this case at least Churchill did not know best.

Boy oh boy were the people right about her. I have read enough about this woman to know that she seemed like an appalling person and would have been a disaster on the Throne. That goes for her dim witted besotted husband as well.
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  #273  
Old 06-20-2015, 11:02 AM
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Quite frankly I think the English dodged a bullet ...particularly with the coming war.




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  #274  
Old 06-20-2015, 11:23 AM
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So there we have it. Commoners have married into every royal family from Sweden to Denmark, from Luxembourg to Britain. Non seem to be on the verge of collapse over it
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  #275  
Old 06-20-2015, 11:30 AM
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And it's been happening for a long long time....wasn't Anne Boleyn from partial common stock? Her father's line maybe? Not that it was a great marriage for Anne but her daughter did rather well.


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  #276  
Old 06-20-2015, 11:53 AM
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Anne Boleyn's mother Elizabeth was a member of the ultra noble Howard family while her father's lineage was considerably less illustrious.(Henry VIII might have slept with a butcher's daughter but never in a million years have had one as his queen.) Every single one of Henry's six queens had Royal or at least some noble descent.

Today, Anne would be considered wonderful queen material.

But back then the people hated her(the "goggle eyed whore") and considered her a usurper for replacing the very right Royal daughter of warrior Queen Isabella, Catherine of Aragon. They considered Anne as one of them and therefore not worthy to rule over them as queen.

Note the marked difference in the attitude of the common folk of the 16th century to the current day idea that the Royals must be "relatable" and not seem "better than me".

Anne had the last laugh from beyond the grave. Elizabeth I is considered the greatest of English monarchs, and Catherine's daughter Mary's reign was a catastrophe.
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  #277  
Old 06-20-2015, 12:05 PM
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Britain still has one of the most entrenched class systems in Europe and even there the age of deference is gone. Diana's generation was the last that being Lady So and So really meant anything.

It won't make one jot of difference if Harry marries the girl next door or Lady Penelope Van Nose in the Air. If she doesn't earn her keep she won't be successful.

I imagine most other monarchies in Europe are the same.
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  #278  
Old 06-20-2015, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Anne Boleyn's mother Elizabeth was a member of the ultra noble Howard family while her father's lineage was considerably less illustrious.(Henry VIII might have slept with a butcher's daughter but never in a million years have had one as his queen.) Every single one of Henry's six queens had Royal or at least some noble descent.

Today, Anne would be considered wonderful queen material.

But back then the people hated her(the "goggle eyed whore") and considered her a usurper for replacing the very right Royal daughter of warrior Queen Isabella, Catherine of Aragon. They considered Anne as one of them and therefore not worthy to rule over them as queen.

Note the marked difference in the attitude of the common folk of the 16th century to the current day idea that the Royals must be "relatable" and not seem "better than me".

Anne had the last laugh from beyond the grave. Elizabeth I is considered the greatest of English monarchs, and Catherine's daughter Mary's reign was a catastrophe.


I'm quite sympathetic to Catherine of Aragon but I knew Anne's mother was at least noble...her father was the questionable one.

This (part noble or royal and part something else) pattern that was seen in Henry's line a couple generations earlier.


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  #279  
Old 06-20-2015, 01:24 PM
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And we will agree to disagree that the only thing the members of a Royal house should consider when choosing a partner is love. There are many other things like background , temperament and suitability that should be considered as well.
As I mentioned before, it is not true, even today, that anyone can marry into the royal family. No matter if the chosen bride/groom is noble or a "commoner", royal marriages still have to be pre-approved either by the monarch and the government, or by the parliament depending on the country. If a royal prince or princess marries "for love", but doesn't get the necessary approval, he/she and all descendants of that union are excluded from the line of succession as was the case of Prince Friso of the Netherlands, Princesses Irene and Christina of the Netherlands, Prince Alexandre of Belgium, etc etc

In that sense, all royal brides/grooms (or, all royal brides/groom up to a certain position in the line of succession as in the UK now) go through a vetting process, which is very reassuring for the monarchy as an institution.

BTW, "unworthy commoners" that are frequently despised here like Prince Daniel and Princess Sofia of Sweden have also gone through that process and both the King of Sweden and, most significantly, the elected Swedish government thought they were suitable to join the Bernadotte family !
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  #280  
Old 06-20-2015, 01:32 PM
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Prince Alexandre of Belgium
Prince Alexandre was born without succession rights, because of the morganatic nature of his parents marriage.

Although I know some people say this is questionable.
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