The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #121  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Frstin Taxis's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Emmeram, Germany
Posts: 775
I dont think that the marriages of the crown princes will fail. Everytime when I see Letizia and Felipe together on television or pictures, you can see that they love each other. Mette Marit and Haakon are this typical couple next door. Very down to earth.
__________________

__________________
Without obsession, life is nothing.
John Waters

Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:55 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: many places, United States
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
Look at Marie-Chantal and Pavlos of Greece She's aristocratic, a true Lady, scandal-free, educated, from a great family
An American Sweetheart
Aristocratic and American Sweetheart; I think not. Most Americans don't even know who she is and the ones that do, only because of her father and husband. Her business only swells because of those two men in her life.
__________________

__________________
Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet shed on the heel that crushed it - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:59 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: many places, United States
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
MC is an American Sweetheart for us the American Upper Class
Believe me when I tell you, that statement is false. Upper Class I know extremely well.
__________________
Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet shed on the heel that crushed it - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:02 AM
4Pam's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 2,791
Marie-Chantal an American Sweetheart? I think not. I doubt more than a quarter of the US knows who she is. Aristocratic? Not even close.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:29 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
Exactly We agree on something Lumutqueen
Nice post Al_Bina
Agree on what may I ask?
All you've said is that MC is the American Sweetheart, which you have then gone on to change your mind about?
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:50 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
Aristocratic and American Sweetheart; I think not. Most Americans don't even know who she is and the ones that do, only because of her father and husband. Her business only swells because of those two men in her life.
No-one buys childrens clothes because of the owners husband and/or father. Her line of childrens clothes is lovely and I am waiting for grandchildren so I can buy some.

But you are correct in that she is not a household name in the US. At least one women with a very rich father that did not appear in the press or on a reality show.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 07-31-2010, 03:08 PM
Anne83's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 120
Oh yes, I changed my mind If you say so Lumutqueen
I like MC's clothes, too, Grevinnan
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 07-31-2010, 03:49 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,349
I have no problem with marriages between royalty and commoners. I would think if you were a commoner and you married into royalty that you would conduct yourself in a manner which would benefit everyone. You certainly would want to shine or have people think well of you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 07-31-2010, 07:31 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Somewhere in Germany, Germany
Posts: 748
Dont know whether its our fast-living-times or the fact that one parent is commoner but look f.i. to Norway: Harald married a commoner, both children married commoners - Haakon even a single mother.
Sweden: CG married a commoner - all three children have/had relations with commoners whos backgrounds are problematic and are widely discussed right now.
Luxemburg: Henri married a commoner his mother didnt get along with - and one son is already married to a commoner with having two children at the age of 24...
Monaco: Rainier married a commoner - all three children turned out to have problematic lives with divorces and children out of wedlock.
I prefer those little noble houses like Wuerttemberg where the children are at least urged to possibly marry another noble person. I think its a matter of education. If you tell your child from all the beginning that its noble and none other than another noble person be a possibility to marry and if you make sure that your child only moves inside noble circles than the child doesnt IMO come to the idea to first of all look around under commoners. Well, this attitude might be discussable but it still works in some noble houses and I like that and I dont think those children feel under pressure or so because lots of them still marry indeed other nobles. (Marie-Christine Habsburg f.i. married into Limburg-Stirum and Im sure all her brothers and sisters will, like their parents did, the same with all the children of Phillippe and Mathilde of Belgium Im quite sure)
Look at CP right now with that Sofia Hellquist: I sometimes wonder how all this could have happened though we all know that Silvia is such a 150% Queen - the same with Madeleine - isnt Silvia the person we see in her - and wasnt Gracia the person either?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:31 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lafayette, United States
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
Sweden: CG married a commoner - all three children have/had relations with commoners whos backgrounds are problematic and are widely discussed right now.
Great Britain: QEII married a Prince of Greece - their eldest son and heir married a commoner whose background is problematic and widely discussed on this forum.

Sweden: Princess Birgitta & Prince Johan Georg of Hohenzollern - two royals, oldest son has child out of wedlock, daughter divorced and remarried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
I prefer those little noble houses like Wuerttemberg where the children are at least urged to possibly marry another noble person. I think its a matter of education. If you tell your child from all the beginning that its noble and none other than another noble person be a possibility to marry and if you make sure that your child only moves inside noble circles than the child doesnt IMO come to the idea to first of all look around under commoners. Well, this attitude might be discussable but it still works in some noble houses and I like that and I dont think those children feel under pressure or so because lots of them still marry indeed other nobles. (Marie-Christine Habsburg f.i. married into Limburg-Stirum and Im sure all her brothers and sisters will, like their parents did, the same with all the children of Phillippe and Mathilde of Belgium Im quite sure)
Look at CP right now with that Sofia Hellquist: I sometimes wonder how all this could have happened though we all know that Silvia is such a 150% Queen - the same with Madeleine - isnt Silvia the person we see in her - and wasnt Gracia the person either?
One thing to consider about Grace is that the image of the virginal princess we saw on her wedding day was FAR from the truth about how she lived her life - having many affairs, some with married men throughout her life before becoming Princess of Monaco. Although I think she remains one of the most beautiful princesses ever, the example she set for her children was less than dignified if they knew anything at all about her life. In addition, none of us was there when she was alive. Perhaps she was a completely different person in private, the exact opposite of the regal, dignified persona she portrayed in the media. She was, after all, an actress.

And just a few royal-royal relationships to consider that perhaps did not turn out as well:
Romania - Carol II & Princess Helen of Greece
Greece - George II & Princess Elisabeth of Romania
Belgium - Leopold II & Archduchess Marie Henrietta of Habsburg
France - Henri, current Count of Paris & Duchess Marie Therese of Wurttemberg
Hesse - Moritz, current Landgrave of Hesse & Princess Tatiana of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
Iran - Mohammed Reza Pahlavi & Princess Fawzia of Egypt

On the flip side, some of the greatest royal love stories that have existed involved a royal marrying a commoner:

Great Britain - George VI and Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
Japan - Emperor Akihito & Michiko Shoda
Sweden - Prince Bertil & Lilian Davies

Again, it all comes back to individual responsibility, dignity, and respect. Even with parents who provide a great example, the children can sometimes do as they wish, appropriate or not. Royal families have always had "crazy" people in them, have always had children born out of wedlock (yes even to princesses), and have always had infidelity. Years ago, we weren't privy to such knowledge because it was well hidden and technology such as the internet didn't exist.

But when you look at the PERSONS rather than the title, I believe most people would pick a Silvia Sommerlath, Sonja Haraldsen, or Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon over a Princess Caroline, Princess Stephanie, or Princess Ragnhild.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:51 AM
4Pam's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 2,791
How about the marriages of King Hussein to Queen Noor and King Abdullah to Queen Rania? I'm a big fan of both couples and feel that they have a done great works in Jordan.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 08-01-2010, 02:13 AM
Lakshmi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: *, United States
Posts: 1,226
Generally I am not against commoners marrying royals, although I would expect some extraordinary achievements or at least good education from commoners entering royal ,especially ruling, families.

4Pam gave excellent example of 'common' women like Noor or Rania who turned out excellent queens. Another example can be Sylvia of Sweden; Masako of Japan had all the qualities that I mentioned I would expect from commoners marrying royals but her story turned very sad.

General trend is -especially in Europe-that royals marry more and more 'common' commoners: high school dropouts, divorcees, women having kids out of wedlock, past relationships with drug dealers or drug histories themselves.
So, I began missing royals marrying royals only. "New" people arriving to royal families don't know tradition and some are just tacky. I am afraid if this trend continues people in those still existing monarchies will began to ask why they need royals if they don't differ from the rest of society and are less ans less about tradition.
__________________
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.''
Eleanor Roosevelt

"The course of true love never did run smooth " William Shakespeare, 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'

http://www.aishwarya-rai.com/
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 08-01-2010, 08:31 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lafayette, United States
Posts: 500
Hi, Lakshmi! Your post sums up perfectly my view on the matter. I don't necessarily have anything against royal-royal marriages nor royal-commoner marriages. If the prospective bride/groom comes from a poor family or they worked in a menial job means nothing to me. Even people from the "lowest" classes of society can have dignity, intelligence, and a regal bearing. The biggest example of that is the Mette-Marit we are seeing more often now (other than how she waves or claps her hands "like a seal"). It took her a while but she seems to have finally embraced her role and is doing quite well. On the flip side, if CP and Sofia were to marry, I'm afraid it could end up just like CP Mary who can sometimes come off as more royal than those born to it, pretentious and expectant of all the trappings of royalty.

In the end, the royal - and particularly - the heir must use very good judgment. S/he must choose a person with qualities that can support them in their work and best serve the country.

As far as all the "little" former royal houses that are more strictly marrying another royal, I think it is an attempt to make themselves better than the existing monarchies that are still ruling. Besides, it doesn't matter anyway since their monarchy no longer exists.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:04 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Somewhere in Germany, Germany
Posts: 748
The example with Elizabeth II would fit into a thread: "How the fact that their mother had to become Queen (because there was no male heir) had an influence to their lives...") - the same with Margrethe in Denmark.
CGs sister is an example for my speculation that there is something in the Swedish royal family that brings out people like Birgitta and her niece Madeleine - both too much sun and the wrong partner. So it might be CGs "fault" (he always came along like a little playboy) that his children develop in some wrong direction.
Other examples are just marriages who were forced out of political reasons (King Leopold, Shah Reza) which happened very often in earlier centuries.
I would even consider the marriage between Sofia and Juan Carlos a marriage out of political reasons.
Fact is to me that if one royal house starts with marrying a commoner (f.i. Margaret to Lord Snowdon) then little by little the other houses do the same because they can name the "beginner" as an example and it might be hard then to find arguments against it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:12 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lafayette, United States
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
Other examples are just marriages who were forced out of political reasons (King Leopold, Shah Reza) which happened very often in earlier centuries.
I would even consider the marriage between Sofia and Juan Carlos a marriage out of political reasons.
I agree about Sofia & JC, Stefanie. Although I believe she convinced herself to love him for a time and still has some affection for him, I'm not sure that JC has ever actually been "in love" with Sofia. He may care about her and appreciate the job she does as queen, but not truly in love with her. I think some men can be "in love" with one woman but unwilling to be monogamous. JC wouldn't fall in that category because, while he may not be monogamous, he still doesn't seem to be in love with Sofia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
CGs sister is an example for my speculation that there is something in the Swedish royal family that brings out people like Birgitta and her niece Madeleine - both too much sun and the wrong partner. So it might be CGs "fault" (he always came along like a little playboy) that his children develop in some wrong direction.
Agree here, too. Maybe not CG's fault but Birgitta definitely has lived her life as a party girl...and it shows. I dread to think what Madeleine will look like in 40 years. Such a shame because Birgitta was quite stunning in her youth.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:18 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 187
I think it comes down to 2 things:
1) the gene pool.
2) the need to strengthen the ties between the royal houses and the common people.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:49 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 4,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pam View Post
Marie-Chantal an American Sweetheart? I think not. I doubt more than a quarter of the US knows who she is. Aristocratic? Not even close.

MC was born in London, and spent much of her education and upbringing abroad. I loathe the silly and meaningless term "American Sweetheart"..what on Earth does that mean??!

Anyway I am pretty certain it does not describe the pretentious Marie-Chantal Miller.

If you want to get REALLY technical, out of the current crop of Crown Princesses who married Crown Princes, the only true blue-blood is Mathilde D'Udekem d'Acoz..wife of Philippe of Belgium.

Princess Mathilde is an aristocrat by birth and bearing, and I don't think any of the others are in her league, certainly not Clothilde Courau or MC Miller.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 08-02-2010, 04:01 AM
PrincessElena's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: -, Hungary
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakshmi View Post
high school dropouts
Pardon my ignorance, but which royal has married a high school dropout? That's quite shocking...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 08-02-2010, 04:56 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,153
I think, but i'm not sure, lakshmi is talking about Charlene Wittstock.

Princess Mathilde is the only true aristocratic CP at the moment.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 08-02-2010, 07:42 AM
PrincessElena's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: -, Hungary
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I think, but i'm not sure, lakshmi is talking about Charlene Wittstock.

Princess Mathilde is the only true aristocratic CP at the moment.
Charlene? I thought she completed high school, she just never enrolled to the University of Pretoria, where she was...Practicing swimming, I think?

Princess Mathilde is indeed a wonderful woman and a true aristocratic lady, but let's not forget about Sophie of Liechtenstein.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman pom pregnancy president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:52 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]