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  #121  
Old 07-03-2006, 02:25 PM
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Avalon, thanks for the story about Alexander II and Ekaterina, it`s very interesting. It`s sad that the czar died only few months after he had married his love and started a happy period of life.
Did the family of Kate belong to the most important families of Russia or was it only a "normal" noble family? And are there any pictures of Kate and her children? Thanks in advance:)
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  #122  
Old 07-03-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betina
Teh next king was Christian 6. and he was married ti Sophie Magdalene of Saxen-Hildeburghausen. They were wery pietistic and banned all theater in Denmark.
They were not wery liked by the ppl because they stayed at the castle all the time. When they were crowned the queen got a new crown because she didnt wanted to wear the one Anna Sophie Rewentlow had worn.
that's very interesting story, betina. thank you. :)

do you know if there a picture of the crown that Anna Sophie Rewentlow used and is there a picture of the new one that was made for Sophie Magdalene since she refused to wear the old one?

Does the family still keep both of them at all?
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  #123  
Old 07-04-2006, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia

do you know if there a picture of the crown that Anna Sophie Rewentlow used and is there a picture of the new one that was made for Sophie Magdalene since she refused to wear the old one?

Does the family still keep both of them at all?
The crown that was made for Sophie Magdalene is displayed at Rosenborg Castle along with the other dnish regalia, and the crown jewels. The crown used by Anne Sophie was probably melted down and reused to make the new one, it doesn't exist anymore. I don't know if there is a picture somewhere of the old crown.
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  #124  
Old 07-04-2006, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monna
Avalon, thanks for the story about Alexander II and Ekaterina, it`s very interesting. It`s sad that the czar died only few months after he had married his love and started a happy period of life.
Did the family of Kate belong to the most important families of Russia or was it only a "normal" noble family? And are there any pictures of Kate and her children? Thanks in advance:)
You are welcome :)
Kate belonged to the House of Dolgorukovs. Though it was an ancient and noble house and was considered one the 'important' families of Russia, it was not one of the 'most important'.
Kate's father lost almost all of the family fortune and died very poor, Emperor practically adopted the whole family, giving them mothly money to live up to their name.
Here are a few pics, from People.ru and galereia.ru
1. Emperor Alexander II (on the back of this photo was written 'In memory of two happy days, we wpent in Tsarskoe Selo')
2. Kate
3. Kate with son Georgi and daughter Olga



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  #125  
Old 07-04-2006, 09:02 AM
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Great pictures, Avalon!
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  #126  
Old 07-04-2006, 11:29 AM
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I remamber the film Katia (from 1959) with Romy Schneider (Katia) and Curt Jürgens (Alexander II).
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  #127  
Old 07-05-2006, 02:45 PM
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Yes, great pictures. It`s not easy to find some information and pictures of Kate and her family though I tried to. And there is no book about Alexander and his time in Czech - there are biografies of Catherine the Great or Nicholas II who are well-known here but nothing about Alexander though he was a great man.
Thanks for the info about the film, I have never heard about it but I`ll try to download it.

Another royal scandal concerns King Carol II of Romania (1893-1953) who was married to Princess Helen of Greece. Carol had a mistress, Elena Lupescu known also as Magda, a not noble daughter of a pharmacist from Moldavia. He abandoned his wife and little son Michal and also his duties and moved with Magda abroad and wrote to his parents that it would be better to announce that he died in a car accident. The parents were devastated and he lost the rights to the throne. Carol and Helen divorced though Helen was disposed to continue the marriage. After the death of King Ferdinand Carol returned to Romania and was proclaimed king. And his mistress started to live in the royal palace (but they married only in 1947). Carol even forced poor Helen to leave the country so little Michal could see her only rarely. He was a very nice man, wasn’t he?
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  #128  
Old 07-05-2006, 05:04 PM
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Well, not! That was a devastating story! I'm glad our Swedish royals have had some more sense than that! Even if a king or a prince cheated on his wife or had mistresses before they got married, the children born out of these relationships were often taken good care of, and the wives and their children had it even better. No royal child has been really taken away from their mother since Queen Christina was taken away from her mother Queen Mary Eleonore in the 17th century. Mary Eleonore was mentally ill though. But there is a story from early 20th century Sweden, that's a little bit like that one. Prince Vilhelm was the son of king Gustav V and Queen Victoria. In 1908, he got married to the Russian princess Maria Pavlovna. I don't know how arrenged this marriage was. It would be just like people a century ago to think "Oh, we should make some marriage connection with Russia!" (we in Sweden had never had such a connection before since the middle ages), and thus have forced Vilhelm and Maria to get married. But no matter the case, the marriage ended up being very unhappy. Vilhelm and Maria had a son, Prince Lennart, but not even that could save the marriage. Maria left her husband and her son and moved back to Russia. The marriage was annulled, and Maria re-married with a Russian prince. Vilhelm never re-married, but he fell in love with a new woman, and they lived together for many years. He couldn't get married to her since she was a commoner.
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  #129  
Old 07-05-2006, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monna
Yes, great pictures. It`s not easy to find some information and pictures of Kate and her family though I tried to. And there is no book about Alexander and his time in Czech - there are biografies of Catherine the Great or Nicholas II who are well-known here but nothing about Alexander though he was a great man.
Thanks for the info about the film, I have never heard about it but I`ll try to download it.

Another royal scandal concerns King Carol II of Romania (1893-1953) who was married to Princess Helen of Greece. Carol had a mistress, Elena Lupescu known also as Magda, a not noble daughter of a pharmacist from Moldavia. He abandoned his wife and little son Michal and also his duties and moved with Magda abroad and wrote to his parents that it would be better to announce that he died in a car accident. The parents were devastated and he lost the rights to the throne. Carol and Helen divorced though Helen was disposed to continue the marriage. After the death of King Ferdinand Carol returned to Romania and was proclaimed king. And his mistress started to live in the royal palace (but they married only in 1947). Carol even forced poor Helen to leave the country so little Michal could see her only rarely. He was a very nice man, wasn’t he?
Wow, what a fascinating story!
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  #130  
Old 07-05-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
Great pictures, Avalon!
I agree, those are nice pictures:p
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  #131  
Old 07-09-2006, 07:01 PM
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I just watch on TV - Les Rois maudits (with Gerard Depardieu and Jeanne Moreau). I can't saw the first part, but I know that there was smth about three princesses. If anyone saw that miniseries and could tell me what happen with hese ladies?
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  #132  
Old 07-09-2006, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnik
I just watch on TV - Les Rois maudits (with Gerard Depardieu and Jeanne Moreau). I can't saw the first part, but I know that there was smth about three princesses. If anyone saw that miniseries and could tell me what happen with hese ladies?
Is it a movie adaption of "Les Rois Maudits" by JMoris Duron? If yes, I have read them. I think you are talking of the 3 sisters, Marguerite de Bourgogne, Blanche de Bourgogne and Jeanne de Poitiers. If yes, I can tell you what happened to them. Not the best of fates they had.
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  #133  
Old 07-10-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Is it a movie adaption of "Les Rois Maudits" by JMoris Duron? If yes, I have read them. I think you are talking of the 3 sisters, Marguerite de Bourgogne, Blanche de Bourgogne and Jeanne de Poitiers. If yes, I can tell you what happened to them. Not the best of fates they had.
Yes Avalon, this is it!
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  #134  
Old 07-10-2006, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Is it a movie adaption of "Les Rois Maudits" by JMoris Duron? If yes, I have read them. I think you are talking of the 3 sisters, Marguerite de Bourgogne, Blanche de Bourgogne and Jeanne de Poitiers. If yes, I can tell you what happened to them. Not the best of fates they had.
Sounds interesting! Please please do tell!
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  #135  
Old 07-10-2006, 09:42 PM
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Marguerite de Bourgogne

Marguerite of Burgundy (1290 - 1315) married her cousin, Prince Louis of France in 1305. Louis, the eldest son of King Philippe IV (the fair) was King of Navarre (through his mother) and heir to the French throne (he became King Louis X of France in 1314).
Marguerite and Louis had only 1 daughter (Jeanne) after 10 years of marriage. In the book (I am not sure about the movie) Queen Isabelle of England (wife of King Edward II of England, daughter of Philippe IV of France, sister to Louis, Philippe and Charles) made a trap for her sisters-in-law Marguerite, Joanne, and Blanche, so that they could be caught in adultery. She sent them gold wallets and they gave them to their lovers. Isabelle then traveled to France to make sure of her suspicions, and after spotting the wallets on 2 of the court men, she told her father, the King, of the adultery of the Princesses.
The Princess’s lovers were executed (by most brutal ways). The Princesses had to go through the public trial, were made (Marguerite and Blanche) nuns and were sentenced to life imprisonment.
Once the fact of her adultery was emerged, people started talking that the only daughter of Marguerite and Louis, Jeanne, was illegitimate. Indeed, Louis and Marguerite were married for 6 years and were childless and Jeanne was born after Marguerite started her affair. Little Jeanne could be both Louis’s and Marguerite’s lover’s daughter. Since it was essential for the heir to the throne to remarry, Marguerite (according to the book, I didn’t find historic evidence that it’s true, though I find it highly probable) was offered to acknowledge that her daughter was not Louis’s daughter, that she was unfaithful and “bad” wife for Louis (this would be a good enough reason for the Pope to grant the divorce). Again according to the book, Marguerite did sign under that paper but due to some circumstances the King (King Philippe had already died then, so her husband, Louis X was the King) did not receive it.
Since he was desperate to marry, not under his orders but under his silent agreement, Marguerite was allegedly strangled in 1315, after 2 years of imprisonment Note, allegedly, since it was never proved. She might have as well died of natural causes (Marguerite and Blanche were imprisoned in the same prison, Château-Gaillard, and lived in extreme condition, deprived of almost everything).
I would also like to note that though the book leaves no doubt that Marguerite and Blanche did have lovers, some historians question the value of the confession of the Princess’s lovers (Philippe and Gautier d’Aunai), since the method of procuring such confessions are well known and not exactly appropriate.
King Louis married Clemence of Hungary in 1315. He died in 1316, leaving his wife in last months of pregnancy. Clemence gave birth to a son, John the Posthumous, died only after 4 days of life.
Now, again according to the book, King Louis’s brother, Prince Philippe (King Philippe V the Tall), along with Duchess Margo (mother to Blanche and Jeanne) murdered the little King. However the story goes on to tell that the little King’s nanny, swapped him for her son (request of one of the governors, who feared for the King’s life), so the child that died, wasn’t the king at all. While one can accept the possibility that Philippe might have wanted the little King’s death but the rest is pure fiction. Though there was indeed evidence in the medieval history that a certain Italian claimed to be John the Posthumous but he never managed to prove that.
Marguerite and Louis’s daughter, Joanne, was proclaimed (not officially) a bastard. And anyway, Philippe used the ancient Salic law that prohibited women to succeed to the throne. There was a peculiarity though. Jeanne was made Queen of Navarre, which technically acknowledged that she was Louis’s daughter.
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  #136  
Old 07-10-2006, 09:43 PM
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Jeanne de Bourgogne

Jeanne de Bourgogne (1279 - 1321) married her cousin Prince Philippe of France, Duke de Poitiers, second son of King Philippe IV The Fair and Jeanne of Navarre, in 1307. They were engaged since both were 1 years old and the actual marriage took place when they were 13.
Unlike her sisters, whose adultery was proven, Jeanne was never convicted of adultery. She was convicted for “covering the sin” and was sent to Abbey "until the time she feels remorse and the King forgives her". Her living conditions were loads better then those of Marguerite and Blanche.
When in 1317 Philippe became King (upon the death of his brother and newborn nephew), he immediately called Jeanne back. They had a son the same year but the boy died after only a few days’ life. Their son was born (according to the book he kept it secret for a few days) right before the Coronation, so when it took place he referred to the Ancient Salic law and declared that women cannot succeed to the throne. Thus Philippe tried to exclude the possibility that Louis X’s daughter, Jeanne, could succeed to the throne (a little note: the famous 100 years war started because Edward III of England claimed the French throne for himself under the ground that he was King Philippe’s only male grandchild, through his mother, Isabelle of France). However his son died in a few days and they didn’t have any other children with his wife (they had Jeanne, Marguerite and Isabelle and their son).
Philippe was one of the most hard-working Royals of the House of Capet. He tried to make many reforms, many of which were not understood by his contemporary.
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  #137  
Old 07-10-2006, 09:45 PM
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Blanche de Bourgogne

Blanche de Bourgogne (1288 - 1348) married her cousin, Prince Charles of France, the youngest son of King Philippe IV the Fair and Jeanne of Navarre. Unlike the Marguerite – Louis couple, which seemed to be doomed from the beginning (Marguerite was exceptionally beautiful, Louis was not exactly a handsome man), Blanche and Charles seemed to be a very loving couple.
When Blanche’s adultery was discovered, she (with sister Marguerite) was made a nun. Her lover was sentenced to death and was killed, using several methods of execution (most brutal).
She was imprisoned in Château-Gaillard, with Marguerite. Blanche slowly started loosing her mind (both according to the book and historic facts).
Marguerite was allegedly strangled in 1315, after 2 years of imprisonment Note, allegedly, since it was never proved. She might have as well died of natural causes (Marguerite and Blanche were imprisoned in the same prisonand lived in extreme condition, deprived of almost everything).
Charles’s eldest brothers (Louis X and Philippe V) had no living male issues (Louis’s only son, John, died 4 days after birth, so did Philippe’s only son), which meant that according to the Salic law Charles was to succeed Philippe V (though Philippe had 3 daughters, Jeanne, Marguerite and Isabelle).
Blanche was still in prison when Charles became King in 1322. Charles asked Pope John XXII to proclaim the marriage null on the ground that Blanche’s mother had been his godmother. Blanche died in 1326, in confinement, though at the end of her life she was transferred to the Abbey of Maubuisson.
Blanche and Charles had only one daughter together, Jeanne, born in 1315.
To secure male issues he married his cousin, Marie de Luxembourg, daughter of Emperor Henry VII. He had no children with her and upon her death, 2 years later, married his cousin, Jeanne, daughter of Louis, Count of Evreux (brother of King Philippe IV). They had 3 daughters (Blanche, Jeanne – don’t mix with his first daughter, also Jeanne, who died in infantry, and Marie) and no son.
Charles IV died in 1328. He had no male issure and was the last King in the direct line of the Capetians.
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  #138  
Old 07-10-2006, 09:46 PM
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Hope this helps magnik, Lillia! :)
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  #139  
Old 07-11-2006, 05:33 PM
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wow! so these 3 princesses certainly get treated like princesses, did they? Did they live like princesses at all?

do you know if there are any pictures of Jeanne or Blanche? What about the men that were involved in those scandals with them?
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  #140  
Old 07-11-2006, 06:38 PM
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Avalon, you're great! Thank you:)
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