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  #41  
Old 06-21-2006, 06:21 PM
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There are some really great books about kings, queens, mistresses and lovers. A couple I know are called Sex With Kings, Sex With the Queen and one which is called something, plus the subtitle, 3,000 years of adultery with kings, tsars, emperors, popes, etc, etc. In the last one, it mentions that one king had over 300 illeg. children!
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  #42  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
I'll try to answer few of the questions that have raised here (it so happened that history is my passion :o ).
About Marc Antony/Cleopatra/Caesar

1. Caesar most certainly did know about his son, moreover, the conservative republicans were very offended, because Cleopatra used to live in Rome (in Caesar's residence) with Caesarion, whom Caesar openly acknowledged.
2. Marc Antony and Cleopatra had children, twins (Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene) and a son (Ptolemy Philadelphos). One of the reasons Rome was so dissatisfied with Marc Antony, was that he started giving away lands to his children. Alexander Helios was named Great King of the Seleucid Empire, Cleopatra Selene was called Queen of Cyrenaica and Crete and Ptolemy Philadelphos was named King of Syria and Asia Minor. Antony also proclaimed Cleopatra King of Kings (yes, king). As for Caesarion, Antony openly proclaimed he was to be Caesar's successor as his only son.
Wow -- very interesting! Selene is a really nice name, and I certainly would not have thought of it as a the name of an ancient Queen!:) Excellent.

All of this is fascinating to me:p
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  #43  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly
She later moved to the USA but died poor and without family.
So the King did not love her enough to ensure her well being?

He let her move away and become destitute!:( What happened there?

Did they argue or was she forced out of her country somehow?
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  #44  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Peter the Great and Anne Mons

Peter the Great is Peter I of Russia; he is responsible for transferring old-fashioned and a bit barbaric Russia into a more or less European country. He also literally built Petersburg (now Saint Petersburg), which was/is called "window to Europe". Anne Mons was the daughter of a vintner. She was initially the mistress of Peter's friend, Frantz Lafort, who introduced her to King. Peter fall in love with her and their affair continued for 10 years. The King was already thinking of making Anne his Queen, but then it turned out she was not exactly "his" Anne but had been betraying him with a German merchant, with whom she even had a daughter. Peter imprisoned Anne but very soon (in a few days) forgave her and even asked to come back to him but Anne (!) proclaimed her intention to marry to the Prussian Ambassador. She was not happy with him, he died early and she lived her life in misery. But the story goes on. Soon Peter fall in love and married Catherine Trubacheva. The Emperor introduced her as the Empress of Russian Empire but a year later he got a report that Catherine was betraying him with Wilhelm Mons (Anne Mons's brother). Mons was imprisoned but he did not tell a word about his connection with Catherine (he was not tortured). Nevertheless he was executed. The court insisted on Catherine's execution as well but Peter knew better. Catherine was the Empress of Russia and mother of his children. He forgave her. Catherine succeeded throne after him as Catherine I (not their daughter but her).

p.s. If you have any question, be most welcomed to aks them. I am not pretending to be an expert (on the contrary, there are loads of things I learn from different forums) but I do know History well because, as I said, it's my passion. :)
What a mixed up story! Fascinating too. Lots of intrigue with them sounds like...:)
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Avalon
And a little info on Cleopatra’s children. Because Caesarion was Julius Caesar’s son and a possible threat to Octavian’s power, Octavian had the boy strangled by his tutor (he was about 10 then). The rest of the children were sent to Rome to be raised by Octavia (Marc Antony’s legal wife and Octavian’s sister). Cleopatra Selene later married King Juba II of Mauritania and had 2 children, Ptolemy and Drusilla. There are no accurate reports about Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus. Some reports suggest Octavian had them married to 2 foreign Princesses. The other report suggests they might have been killed at the order of King Herod I of Judea. Other reports suggest Ptolemy Philadelphus was sent to Armenia (he was proclaimed King of Armenia by Marc Antony though my country never accepted him, as well as the Roman superiority at the time) and Alexander Helios was made a King of a small provincial Kingdom of Rome (not specified). It was known that Octavian intended to do so but whether he did or not, is not known.
Again, fascinating! Maybe I don't understand so clearly, but how could a little boy of age only 10 years be a threat to someone like Octavian? And would his parents (at least his mother) not have considered this a potential concern for him, especially since they were themselves royalty?
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  #46  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:17 PM
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Avalon -- do you know any more facts or details about this King and his affairs --this bit was told to me recently, but not more:

Tsar Alexander caused some consternation in the Russian court by marrying his mistress Ekaterina, created Princess Yourievsky, the same year as his wife, Empress Maria Alexandrovna, died.

A Tsar and a King are the same, right? Same rights and priviledges and everything?:) :)
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  #47  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morhange
There are some really great books about kings, queens, mistresses and lovers. A couple I know are called Sex With Kings, Sex With the Queen and one which is called something, plus the subtitle, 3,000 years of adultery with kings, tsars, emperors, popes, etc, etc. In the last one, it mentions that one king had over 300 illeg. children!
300 children!

Well he was certainly busy, how could he have gotten anything done!:)

(BTW, which King was that?)
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  #48  
Old 06-22-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
Avalon -- do you know any more facts or details about this King and his affairs --this bit was told to me recently, but not more:

Tsar Alexander caused some consternation in the Russian court by marrying his mistress Ekaterina, created Princess Yourievsky, the same year as his wife, Empress Maria Alexandrovna, died.

A Tsar and a King are the same, right? Same rights and priviledges and everything?:) :)
Yes, Lillia, a Tzar and a King is the same thing. I will know a lot about Alexander II and Ekaterina. I will write it and post in a little while, because I will try not to make it too long or too boring. :)

Quote:
Again, fascinating! Maybe I don't understand so clearly, but how could a little boy of age only 10 years be a threat to someone like Octavian? And would his parents (at least his mother) not have considered this a potential concern for him, especially since they were themselves royalty?
He was a threat because as a son to Caesar, he had more rights then Octavian (though Caesar named Octavian as his successor). Merely the fact that the boy lived, was a threat for Octavian. There were bound to be uprisings and revolts in his name, even if Caesarion himself wouldn't participate in them. So, from political point of view, it was a right decision. Of course, from human point of view, it was a terrible crime to kill a child.
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  #49  
Old 06-22-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
300 children!

Well he was certainly busy, how could he have gotten anything done!:)

(BTW, which King was that?)
It was King August of Poland and Saxony. At least he definetely had about 300 illigitimate children. But maybe morhange meant someone else.
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  #50  
Old 06-22-2006, 11:43 AM
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I know it’s pretty long but I do hope it’s not too boring. Sorry for that.

The Tzar and Kate first met quite accidentally, in August, when the Tzar was Poltava. There he was staying at Kate’s house (Kate’s father was from ancient house of Dolgorukovs but he died, leaving his family in debts).
She met the Tzar in the garden, where she seemed to be searching for something, he asked what she is doing there and Kate said she was searching for the Emperor. That amused the Tzar a lot and he talked with her for nearly an hour.
Kate studied at Smolensk University, which the Tzar often visited due to duty. When he met her again, she was no longer a little girl but a charming young lady. The Tzar started visiting the University even more often. They had long conversations and it was obvious that the Tzar enjoyed her company immensely. Kate finished the university when she was 17. And for a while the Tzar and Kate did not meet.
Their next meeting was also accidental. She was having a little walk and so did Kate (separately) and they saw each other. Not paying attention on anyone, the Tzar had along walk with her, by the end of which he almost confessed being in love with her.
She was 18 then and the Tzar was 40 but their love was genuine. The Tzar promised “I am not free and I can’t marry you right now but whenever I will be able to, I will. From now on I consider you my wife in front of the God.”
Though the court knew about Kate, at first no one really paid attention, because no one considered it serious. Before meeting Kate, the Tzar had a number of affairs, most serious and notable of which was the affair with Princess Mary of Hessen. But, as he wrote in his long letters to Kate, his feelings for Kate were different, “more pure then anything he had every experienced. He cared only for them and their future and nothing, not family, country, power or Church, meant more then their love”.
Soon Kate gave birth to their first child, a son. The Tzar was 54 then. The court was astonished (they did not know about Kate’s pregnancy). And the court, as well as the children and relatives of the Tzar, were worried that Kate could transfer from mistress into Empress (Empress Alexandra was then gravely ill then). That concern multiplied, when Kate gave birth to their second child, a daughter.
The Russian-Turkish war separated the lovers for a while. But when the Tzar was back, he ordered to give rooms to Kate in the Winter Palace (where the Emperor and Empress officially resided). The Empress behaved very bravely and very honorably, not saying a word of complain. Only once she dropped “I can forgive that he insults me as an Empress, but I am not able to forgive the pain he causes me as a wife”.
Alexander and Kate had 3 children by the time, son Georgy and daughters, Olga and Catherine (4th child died soon after birth).
In 1880 Empress Alexandra died. In the same year the Tzar married Kate, though it was a morganatic marriage. He married her as soon as the official mourning period ended. She was 32, he was 62.
Very few people knew about the upcoming marriage – his closes friends, Count Adlerberg, General Rileev and just a few other people, including the court priest, who was to marry them.
The Count urged Alexander not to hurry and wait at least till the Tzesarevich (Crown Prince) will be back (he was away from the palace, on official trip through the country) or at least to inform Alexander and the rest of his children about his decision, but Alexander was adamant.
The very same day Kate was made Her Excellency Duchess Yurevskaya (in her own right). Under that name were also to be known all their children, they also had the same rights as the legitimate children of the Tzar but could not succeed to the throne.
The Tzar also took care about their financial conditions. Under his will, he left 3 million rubles to Kate and their children, as well as a number of palaces and housed (all this belonged to Kate personally and could not be inherited by any of the relatives, except for children). He also wrote a letter to his son with Alexandra (Tzesarevich Alexander, future Alexander II), in which he ex pressed a wish that Alexander would be a loving friend and adviser to ‘his Kate’ and would take care of her and their children (I’d like to note that Alexander did fulfill the last wish of his father and always treated Kate with great respect, after his father’s death).
The Tzar hastened to make all the preparations for his death not because he felt old or was thinking of death, but because of terrorist attacks, that were happening very often now. For a few times already they had tried to kill the Tzar.
In spite of the terrible atmosphere outside the palace, inside the palace the Tzar’s life was very peaceful. He and Kate and their children and even his older children with Empress Alexandra lived peacefully and happily with each other. It was the happiest time for the Tzar.
At that very time the secret service gained information, according to which a plan, to kill the Tzar, was plotted. They advised the Tzar to be exceptionally careful of March 1, when the Tzar was supposed to be present at the parade. His advisers, his friends (especially Loris-Melikov, an Armenian, who was minister of internal affairs and was behind the Tzar’s most progressive decisions) and his family all advised him against going to the parade but the Tzar refused to listen to them. Those, who were present at the parting of the Tzar and Kate, said that Kate didn’t want to let him go because of the dream she had that night. She begged him to stay for her sake but again, he said it was his duty to be present.
Alexander was in a closed carriage with 10 bodyguards. A young man with basket through it to the carriage. There was a terrible blast but the Tzar was unharmed. He approached to the terrorist and asked whether it was he, who threw the bomb. Receiving affirmative answer, he went back to see who, among his people, was wounded. When one of his bodyguards asked whether he is unharmed, he answered “yes, thanks to Lord, I am but he…” and he pointed at a small boy, who lay wounded, on the snow. As the Tzar approached to the boy, trying to help him, the terrorist shouted “Aren’t you thanking the Lord too early?!” At the very moment another terrorist appeared from the crowd and throw another bomb into Alexander. The Tzar was still alive. There was the 3rd terrorist but he was disarmed by a group of cadets who were accidentally there and by the crowd. Alexander ordered to carry him to the palace, so that he could die there. He was in a terrible condition. One of his feet was completely detached, the other was broken in all possible ways and was also nearly detached, his face and head had too many wounds to count; one of his eyes was also missing. He was transferred into the palace. He was unconscious.
When the Duchess was told what had happened, she didn’t loose herself but ran into the room and even helped the Doctors to wash his wounds. All the best doctors were fighting for the Tzar’s life but in vain, The Tzar died right after the confession, surrounded by the whole family.
During the funeral, the Tzar’s body was covered. But when the Duchess approached the catafalque, she took off the blankets and kissed Alexander’s face, which was terribly disordered and then left the room, supported by Alexander III, the new Emperor. The next day she made a garland of her own hair and put it onto Alexander’s catafalque.
During the rest of her life she lived in Nice (that was Alexander II’s wish). Everyday she prayed for Alexander (both of them, actually: her husband and the current Emperor). The new Emperor treated her with respect and when a member of the secret service tried to defame Kate in newspapers, he personally got involved and severely punished him.
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  #51  
Old 06-22-2006, 01:25 PM
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i think one of the most intriguing affairs was the one of the crown prince of austria who was later found death with his mistress in mysterious circumstances
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  #52  
Old 06-22-2006, 02:25 PM
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Yeah! Franz Joseph and Sissi must have been devastated when Rudolph did that!
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  #53  
Old 06-22-2006, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
So the King did not love her enough to ensure her well being?

He let her move away and become destitute!:( What happened there?

Did they argue or was she forced out of her country somehow?
Yes, he abandoned her because he fell in love with someone else. Plus she was corrupt and used her powers to manipulate him and thus the country hated her. She was in exile somewhere in europe before she moved to the usa.
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  #54  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Avalon
It was King August of Poland and Saxony. At least he definetely had about 300 illigitimate children. But maybe morhange meant someone else.
the King of Poland and Saxony...

Wasn't his daughter married to Louis XV of France?
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  #55  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarrie
i think one of the most intriguing affairs was the one of the crown prince of austria who was later found death with his mistress in mysterious circumstances

Is there more to this story?

And what, pray do tell, happened to her?
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  #56  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:49 PM
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Wow:p :)

thanks for that story Avalon!

Very interesting

But if he was having a generally happy life, why was there plots to kill him? Did his public accept Kate and their children?
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  #57  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:53 PM
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The danish king Frederik 4. kidnapped(she new it and agreed on it) a danish Lady Anna Sophie Rewentlow and got married with her infact that he still got a wife.
Unfortunately all the children they had died.
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  #58  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly
Yes, he abandoned her because he fell in love with someone else. Plus she was corrupt and used her powers to manipulate him and thus the country hated her. She was in exile somewhere in europe before she moved to the usa.
How did she manipulate him?

And it sounds like it was obvious manipulation to everyone except him, is that right? Did he refuse to listen to anyone?
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  #59  
Old 06-22-2006, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
Yeah! Franz Joseph and Sissi must have been devastated when Rudolph did that!
I can imagine they were upset! Who would have replaced the CP after his death?

Here's a little bit that was also told to me about Franz Joseph (it might be the same guy, I don't know), but this is all I know on it:

Emperor Franz Josef had a long term mistress/companion, Katharina Schratt. The Empress Elisabeth had no problem with her, though their children were less charitable. A good book on Katharina and the Emperor is "The Emperor and the Actress" by Joan Haslip; Weidenfeld & Nicholson 1982.

Anyone know more about this story?
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  #60  
Old 06-22-2006, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by betina
The danish king Frederik 4. kidnapped(she new it and agreed on it) a danish Lady Anna Sophie Rewentlow and got married with her infact that he still got a wife.
Unfortunately all the children they had died.
King Fredrick IV sponsored kidnapping his mistress and he then married the woman while still married to someone else?

Yikes!
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