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  #61  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:27 AM
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Dera Marengo, Thank you very much for your valuable information, it was really interesting.Just as an aside I felt I should tell you that to say someone has converted to papism is a bit derogatory.I know you didn't mean anything bad by it and no offence was taken .It is kind of like calling someone who lives in the artic an eskimo instead of an Inuit which is the word they prefer.Also could you explain to me what ps stands for when you were explaining the difference between holland and the netherlands.thanks and please accept my explanation with the good intent that it had.
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  #62  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:30 AM
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Marlene, 'ps ' was a typo and should have formed the word 'part' as in, Holland is a part of the Netherlands (the mid/north west of the country).

I am not offended in the least and I appreciate your explanation...
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  #63  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:53 AM
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Re:

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Just as an aside I felt I should tell you that to say someone has converted to papism is a bit derogatory
I don't want to make an issue out of something that obviously isn't, but a papist is someone who is a strong advocate of the Papacy. So, I guess I'm a papist and I'd hope every other Catholic is too.
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  #64  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't want to make an issue out of something that obviously isn't, but a papist is someone who is a strong advocate of the Papacy. So, I guess I'm a papist and I'd hope every other Catholic is too.
I'd always thought "papist" was a sort of lightly derogatory nickname for catholics. am i wrong?
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:27 AM
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I'd always thought "papist" was a sort of lightly derogatory nickname for catholics. am i wrong?
Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".
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  #66  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".
I don't want to go in a theological discussion (and BTW I'm catholic) but I always thought the more important in religion was not the pope but the message of Christ. Or is the pope above Christ? In this case it's not religion but idolatry.

Oh, and I don't like the idea of "praying for the other christians com back into Rome", because making the unity of Christians while saying the other "recongnize you're wrong and we're right" is not exactly kind toward the Christians.
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  #67  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:32 AM
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Danielane, I think what we've seen in this thread are the two types of Catholic there are. As far as I see it, there are the modern Catholics and the traditional Catholics. I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. I don't think it's idolatry but it's hard to explain. Much like why we genuflect, pray to Saints etc. I don't think that a theological discussion would be out of place here - it might be interesting to give non-catholics an insight into RC worship to explain the actions of the Royals, i.e - why does Queen Sofia wear a Mantilla? When does a Royal lady wear white etc?
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  #68  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
... I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. ...
Erm... Isn't the papal infallibility limited to solemn teaching on matters of faith intended to 'bind' the Church?
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  #69  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mapple
Erm... Isn't the papal infallibility limited to solemn teaching on matters of faith intended to 'bind' the Church?
Theorically, yes.
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Danielane, I think what we've seen in this thread are the two types of Catholic there are. As far as I see it, there are the modern Catholics and the traditional Catholics. I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. I don't think it's idolatry but it's hard to explain. Much like why we genuflect, pray to Saints etc. I don't think that a theological discussion would be out of place here - it might be interesting to give non-catholics an insight into RC worship to explain the actions of the Royals, i.e - why does Queen Sofia wear a Mantilla? When does a Royal lady wear white etc?
Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.
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Old 11-17-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".
so, do you object to the phrase "Mariology"?
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Old 11-17-2005, 01:36 PM
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Well I don't, but I think you object to the theory rather than the word. I don't object to the theory but others might. Faith is a very personal thing and some people believe one thing and others something else - even within the same faith.
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  #73  
Old 11-17-2005, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Layla1971
I think this thread has served to divide us even further! It's this kind of talk that starts innocently and turns nasty!
I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.

**I don't pray for this to happen. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. No one should be attacked, shamed, or belittled for what they truly believe in their heart on this issue.**
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  #74  
Old 11-17-2005, 04:44 PM
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Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.
I didn't mean you any disrespect Danielane. We've all got our beliefs and I'm not trying to change your mind!

Quote:
I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.
I never said that. I said that I would like them to return to Rome. You assumed I called Catholicism the one true faith. Why do you oppose for opposing's sake?

Now, back on topic. Queen Sofia always used to almost genuflect in front of the Pope and then kiss his ring - I haven't seen her do the same with Pope Benedict. I wonder how Queen Fabiola has taken to him. Has anyone got a pic of Letizia in a Mantilla or is it just Sofia who wears one to Mass?
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  #75  
Old 11-17-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.
I am a tradicional catholic, I'm 100% loyal to the Pope, and what I feel for him is Respect, Obedience, but specially Love! No idolatry. (I have to say I miss JP II so much! :( )I read, maybe it's just a rumour, that Princess Diana was thinking about convert herself to catholicism (her mother did it). Is it true or just a gossip? Thanks in advance.
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  #76  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:00 PM
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I'm 100% loyal to the Pope, and what I feel for him is Respect, Obedience, but specially Love
My feelings exactly Regina!
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  #77  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:31 PM
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Could anyone tell me if the wearing of the mantilla has any special meaning?
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  #78  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".
I was taught the same thing in my Catholic school as well...so it transcends both sides of the "pond" :)
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  #79  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.

**I don't pray for this to happen. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. No one should be attacked, shamed, or belittled for what they truly believe in their heart on this issue.**
Here here....I would post respectfully on there as well.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:35 PM
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Re:

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Could anyone tell me if the wearing of the mantilla has any special meaning?
Well, I believe it's a sign of dignity of humility in front of God and many older women won't take communion unless they are wearing a mantilla or veil. It's an imitation of Our Lady's typical dress with the head covered. Sofia always wears a black or white mantilla whereas Fabiola wears a black or white lace veil.
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