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  #41  
Old 04-21-2015, 02:51 AM
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Concerning the children of HRH the Earl of Wessex, I thought that as children of a son of the monarch they have the right to HRH Prince/ss, but that at their parents' request they are not using those titles, similar to Camilla being known as Duchess of Cornwall instead of Princess of Wales. But in the case of Prince Edward's children, were they actually stripped of their HRH and their titles of Prince/Princess, or are they just not using them?
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2015, 03:08 AM
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There is some debate on this.


1. That without the issuing of new LPs limiting the HRHs further they are HRHs but not using them.




2. The fact that The Queen's will has been made known is enough to stop them ever having those titles.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2016, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I believe - although I could be wrong - that the only hereditary peers who now sit in the House of Lords are people who were created hereditary peers themselves (they didn't inherit it), and then had a life peerage bestowed upon them when the House was reformed.

Or is that completely wrong?
I can't seem to find a reply to this, so I shall take the liberty.

The House of Lords Act, that came into effect in 1999, removed the right of all but 92 hereditary peers to sit in the House of Lords (based purely on their hereditary peerage). Two of that number were ex-officio (The Earl Marshal and the Lord Great Chamberlain). That leaves ninety, who were elected from among the remaining hereditary peers, with proportional allocation between the political parties and cross-benchers. The term 'elected hereditary', is now in common use to refer to this group.
Along with those, there were those hereditary peers of first creation who were automatically offered life peerages and thereby remain in the House. So the grand total can be calculated by adding the 92 remaining hereditary peers and the hereditary peers of first creation (there were four, with only one still living) in addition, all former leaders of the House of Lords were offered hereditary peerages (there were six, with two still living).
So that is at present, the maximum number of hereditary peers who may sit in the House of Lords (not exactly an insignificant number).

On a related point, Her Majesty is perfectly free to create any type of peerage, at any time, without interference from the government. If she so wishes, she may create a Dukedom and seventy hereditary Baronies tomorrow. Of course, that won't happen, but it doesn't for a moment mean that it can't.
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  #44  
Old 11-21-2017, 04:33 PM
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I’m under the understanding that Queen Elizabeth’s mother, Queen consort Elizabeth, was called Her Majesty after the death of the King and after Queen Elizebeth II ‘s coronation. If this is correct usage of the title then why is Prince Phillip not referred to as His Majesty?
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  #45  
Old 11-21-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
I’m under the understanding that Queen Elizabeth’s mother, Queen consort Elizabeth, was called Her Majesty after the death of the King and after Queen Elizebeth II ‘s coronation. If this is correct usage of the title then why is Prince Phillip not referred to as His Majesty?

"Majesty" is just used in reference to kings and queens. Philip has never been a king but is titled as a prince of the UK. Princes and princesses are known as "royal highnesses" in the UK
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  #46  
Old 11-22-2017, 12:45 AM
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So a Queen consort and a Ruling Queen are more or less equal and both can be called Her Majesty?
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  #47  
Old 11-22-2017, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
So a Queen consort and a Ruling Queen are more or less equal and both can be called Her Majesty?
They are both addressed as Your Majesty, but a Queen Regnant will always be above a Queen Consort this ----- much. :)

Male consorts of regnant queens are sensitive chicken-legged men with pursed lips who are always mad and ..... kidding. It takes a fine and confident man to marry a regnant queen. And, if the UK is any example, it guarantees a long and happy life.

Here's to you, Duke Of E.!
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  #48  
Old 12-16-2017, 03:45 PM
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In Hungary John Hunyadi was the first to receive a hereditary title. King Ladislaus (Laszlo) V the Posthumous rewarded Hunyadi with the Saxon district of Beszterce and the title of perpetual count in 1453.

Do viscounts' sons use secondary titles as courtesy titles if their fathers have such titles available?
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  #49  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Do viscounts' sons use secondary titles as courtesy titles if their fathers have such titles available?
No. According to debrett's, only the children of a Duke, Marquis and earl are entitled to use the lesser title of their father. While there are viscounts with a lesser title (baron is the only lesser hereditary peer) the eldest son is simply refered to as The honorable x. The few viscounts who also have a barony, most started as barons and were elevated. So as we see something like Duke X, Earl X because the earl was elevated to duke and maintained both titles, we see Viscount X, Baron X.

https://www.debretts.com/expertise/e...urtesy-titles/
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  #50  
Old 02-07-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post

Very thorough and enjoyable reading Ish.

A present-day example of ennoblement (or raise in status) due to marital proximity is the family of the current Queen of the Belgians.
Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz was born into an untitled noble family of baronial descent. Her father bore the honorific of Jonkheer, which in English translates to somewhere between "The Honourable" and "Lord". Mathilde bore the honorific of Jonkvrouw.

When she married the Duke of Brabant (ie Crown Prince) in 1999, King Albert elevated the family of d'Udekem d'Acoz from the baronial to the comital rank, hereditary in the male line. Her father and brother thus gained a title, that of count, and her surviving sisters that of countess (her mother was uneffected, already being a countess in her own right).

Thus the daughter's marriage into the upper level of the Belgian Royal House directly led to her own family's rise in title, rank and status.
Mathilde herself also became a countess in her own right. Her full name and style following her husband's accession to the throne is:

Sa Majesté la Reine Mathilde Marie Christine Ghislaine comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Princesse de Belgique

"Comtesse" and "Princesse de Belgique" are the only titles that she holds in her own right as "Reine" (i.e. Queen) is actually a courtesy title only. Note also that she is not "Reine des Belges" (Queen of the Belgians ) as that title, following the introduction of equal primogeniture, is now reserved for reigning queens only, Neverthless, she is often wrongly called Queen of the Belgians, even by the Belgian press, but not in official documents.

Philippe , her husband, is officially

Sa Majesté le Roi Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, Roi des Belges, Prince de Belgique
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  #51  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
No. According to debrett's, only the children of a Duke, Marquis and earl are entitled to use the lesser title of their father. While there are viscounts with a lesser title (baron is the only lesser hereditary peer) the eldest son is simply refered to as The honorable x. The few viscounts who also have a baronetcy, most started as barons and were elevated. So as we see something like Duke X, Earl X because the earl was elevated to duke and maintained both titles, we see Viscount X, Baron X.

https://www.debretts.com/expertise/e...urtesy-titles/
A baronetcy isn't the same as a barony.
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  #52  
Old 06-26-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
No. According to debrett's, only the children of a Duke, Marquis and earl are entitled to use the lesser title of their father. While there are viscounts with a lesser title (baron is the only lesser hereditary peer) the eldest son is simply refered to as The honorable x. The few viscounts who also have a barony, most started as barons and were elevated. So as we see something like Duke X, Earl X because the earl was elevated to duke and maintained both titles, we see Viscount X, Baron X.

https://www.debretts.com/expertise/e...urtesy-titles/
If somone has a barony and also a viscountcy, I would have said that the eldest son could use the barony by courtesy .. No?
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  #53  
Old 06-26-2018, 09:57 AM
kbk kbk is offline
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If somone has a barony and also a viscountcy, I would have said that the eldest son could use the barony by courtesy .. No?
No, British viscounts' heirs do not use courtesy titles. All of the Earls, Marquesses and Dukes, though, have subsidiary titles used by their direct heirs. Some dukes even have their great-grandsons (3rds in line) using those, but currently there are none.

Lord Cavendish, who is the Duke of Devonshire's only son and heir's only son and heir, is using the title reserved for the great-grandson because his father, Earl of Burlington, did not assume the title Marquess of Hartington after his father became duke. Usually, he would be Burlington.
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  #54  
Old 06-26-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Mathilde herself also became a countess in her own right. Her full name and style following her husband's accession to the throne is:

Sa Majesté la Reine Mathilde Marie Christine Ghislaine comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Princesse de Belgique

"Comtesse" and "Princesse de Belgique" are the only titles that she holds in her own right as "Reine" (i.e. Queen) is actually a courtesy title only. Note also that she is not "Reine des Belges" (Queen of the Belgians ) as that title, following the introduction of equal primogeniture, is now reserved for reigning queens only, Neverthless, she is often wrongly called Queen of the Belgians, even by the Belgian press, but not in official documents.

Philippe , her husband, is officially

Sa Majesté le Roi Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, Roi des Belges, Prince de Belgique
That's right! Just two comments:

1. My understanding is that "Queen" is a rank or style that Mathilde legally holds, given that it is used in official documents, and that "Queen of the Belgians" is her proper courtesy title, as that is how the court called her in Le Carnet Mondain.

2. The 2015 decree retroactively restored ancestral "other titles" to princes and princesses who had none, out of necessity under Philippe's new rules regarding surnames. Therefore Philippe's long title is

Sa Majesté le Roi Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, Roi des Belges, Prince de Belgique, Duc de Saxe, Prince de Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha
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