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  #21  
Old 09-13-2009, 02:08 AM
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I think a consort should not only be another public figure that does charity work and represents the state but also someone who is there for the monarch themselves when they need some support during what can be a very difficult job
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2014, 10:28 PM
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A royal consort should have a knowledge and understanding of social conditions in her (his) country.
It is wonderful to have charities in which to partake of.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:07 PM
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Looking back over the last century, it's interesting to note that some consorts stand out, revealing perhaps what makes a good consort - and what doesn't!

UK - Although most would think of the Elizabeth, I'm not sure how much of that is due to what happened before (in the abdication crisis) and after (as Queen Mum) she was Queen consort. Certainly her steely character was of great support to her husband during the war. Queen Mary was probably equally as important during George V's reign.

Romania - Queen Marie: glamorous and artistic, charismatic yet profoundly dedicated to serving her country and a real player in the politics of the post-WWI era.

Belgium: Astrid a beautiful young mother tragically killed.

Monaco: Grace - beautiful, glamorous and charismatic, very active in charitable work and perhaps the archtypal fairytale princess.

On the negative side, Alexandra of Russia and Frederica of Greece are perhaps the two most villified consorts of the C20th: aloof, interfering and anti-democratic.

Prince Claus is probably the most successful male consort of the last century.
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:28 PM
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I think the Duke of Edinburgh has been a brilliant consort to HMQ. Over 60 years at the job
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:44 PM
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IMO the role of a consort depends greatly on being a man or a woman... I think that for a woman the role may be more demaning: constant scrutinity, While for a male consort is all about not be too much in the shadow.... I also think a male consort appeals far less than a woman...(press point) but Prince Philip is the epitome of a royal consort IMO. Prince Daniel of Sweden has done good so far, even though he will need more charisma once Victoria ascends... my 2 cents anyway
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:37 AM
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Titles and styles of monarch's spouses

This is a thread to expand upon the discussion currently in the Royal House of Denmark regarding Prince Henrik and his wish to be King or King Consort.

This discussion has touched on other centuries, other countries, equality, and past, current & future monarchs and their spouses. It is especially relevant as many countries have changed the rules regarding female heirs and there will be many Queens in Europe.
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:45 PM
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The solution is fairly simple.
Make the titles of the bearer of the Crown and the Heir functional and gender neutral.
That means: only for the person who bears the Crown or who is the Heir.
All others are a Prince (Princess) of the Royal House.

United Kingdom

The Queen and Prince Philip
The King and Princess Philippa

The Princess of Wales and Prince George
The Prince of Wales and Princess Georgiana


Belgium

La Reine et le prince Louis
Le Roi
et la princesse Louise

La Duchesse de Brabant et le prince Léopold
Le Duc de Brabant et la princesse Léopoldine


Luxembourg

Die Großherzogin und Prinz Wilhelm
Der Großherzog und Prinzessin Wilhelmine

Die Erbgroßherzogin und Prinz Alexander
Der Erbgroßherzog und Prinzessin Alexandrine


Monaco

La Princesse souveraine et le prince Stéphane
Le Prince souverain et la princesse Stéphanie

La Princesse héritière et le prince Charles
Le Prince héritier et la princesse Charlotte



The Netherlands

De Koningin en prins Frederik
De Koning en prinses Frederika

De Prinses van Oranje en prins Willem
De Prins van Oranje en prinses Wilhelmina


Spain

La Reina y el infante Don Juan
El Rey
y la infanta Doña Juana

La Princesa de Asturias y el infante Don Fernando
El Príncipe de Asturias
y la infanta Doña Fernanda

(* = infante/infanta by grace or otherwise príncipe/princesa)


Etc. Etc. This systematic is logic, is crisp and is clear.
Such a system means there can only be one person with the title of King (or Queen).
And there can only be one person who exclusively is known with the title for the Heir.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:09 PM
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I think it would take some getting used to, as everyone is used to a king's spouse being called Queen....but I was actually thinking this is probably much more likely to evolve as you have described. If indeed, when Prince Charles becomes king his wife is known/addressed as Princess Consort as has been said, rather than Queen Camilla, this sets some precedent.

I suppose if the word consort was emphasized in all documents, announcements etc, Queen Consort and King Consort would be an option but that has issues.

I know people were concerned about differentiating between a Prince Consort or Princess Consort and other assorted Prince and Princesses. Do you have thoughts about this?
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:28 PM
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I completely understand the conversation and think having uniformity over all nations is great thinking HOWEVER it does also create other issues - obviously (certainly at the current time as well) it would mean that in the UK it would give Camilla a lesser title than she is automatically entitled to at the moment - and that would be yet another round of controversy.

A very difficult issue I think to find something worldwide that works fairly and equally and look forward (maybe with a little trepidation) to the continuing discussions ☺
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  #30  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:35 PM
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Frankly, I see no reason for any nation to change its traditions because of a hissy fit by a crabby old man.
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  #31  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Frankly, I see no reason for any nation to change its traditions because of a hissy fit by a crabby old man.
There is also that reality 😉
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  #32  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:42 PM
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I don't think any nation should HAVE to change but it does seem that things are evolving.

The European countries that are monarchies mostly/all seem to have changed their rules of inheritance to finally include women. Some of them recently or relatively recently have changed (Great Britain and Sweden) to have the eldest child be the heir to the throne no matter the gender.

I see no reason that this may not evolve as well, especially as more women become Queens.
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  #33  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:47 PM
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Yes I agree. I think that this issue will evolve and eventually we may have King Consorts in the future. The irony is that when this issue is discussed decades from now, Prince Henrik will be the poster child as to why men will have the same rank and style as the Queen Regnants. At least, he will be remembered for having started the discussion!
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  #34  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:28 PM
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Not simply GB and Sweden. Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Belgium and Luxemborg have all introduced it. Spain plans to change it leaving Lichtenstein and Monaco alone in Europe though Monaco is at least make preference and not male only. We currently have Victoria, Catharina Amalia, and Elisabeth as officially first in line. Leonor as well though if Letizia shocked us all and suddenly had a son before the law us changed, he would displace Leonor. And Ingrid Alexandra second in line. We also have Amalia of Luxembourg, who until Guillaume has a child, is heir of that generation after her uncle and dad.

I don't ever see there being king consort. Simple fact is that a king in term outranks queen.

I do believe in the future king/queen will be reserved for the monarch. The spouse no matter gender, will be Prince/SS consort.
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  #35  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Frankly, I see no reason for any nation to change its traditions because of a hissy fit by a crabby old man.
I absolutely agree with you totally. And something else I have a problem with over this issue......why must we all be *alike*? Why can't each country keep it's own heritage, traditions, customs etc then be like everyone else. No two people are alike, neither are countries for each has their own customs, religions, food, clothing, history and so forth. Let each is own, we do not need I hope to become all the same without being an individual person or country.

When I travel I to NOT want to see McDonald's or anything relating to the US. I go to England to see England, to taste their food, walk through their history in the cathedrals, museums, shops that sell English products and not somewhere else products. The same when I have traveled to different countries in Europe. Even to this day I search on the internet for different things made in Europe, they have the traditions that I hold dear. Europe is thousands of years old, do not throw it away on being like everyone else all over a title or this grouchy old man. Do not let him set a preference that everyone must be alike just to satisfy who is what or whom is above whom for those rules are already in place. I do not think this is broken and needs to be fixed...Let each make their own decisions on how they want to be as it should be.
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  #36  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
I don't ever see there being king consort. Simple fact is that a king in term outranks queen.
And that says it all. Prince Philip was not a popular choice with the King nor other powers that be, so much so that when he married Elizabeth he had to give up his title of "HRH Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark" and his nationality to become a naturalised citizen, Mr Philip Mountbatten/Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten before the marriage.

All he got in return was the title "HRH Philip, Duke of Edinburgh" when he married. It was feared by the King and the Prime Minister that he might have undue influence on Princess Elizabeth when she became Queen. He does not hold the title 'Prince Consort' either.
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  #37  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Frankly, I see no reason for any nation to change its traditions because of a hissy fit by a crabby old man.
But "traditions" have changed: no longer a brother has precedence over an elder sister, no longer a partner with a different religious denomination is a constitutional hindrance (UK), "impossible" abdications are facilitated by Governments (Spain, Japan), no longer is there a ban on marrying an own countryman's daughter (Sweden).

Some changes were even retro-actively: Prince Carl Philip was Sweden's Crown Prince when the Constitution changed and his sister Victoria was made the heiress. (In Norway they kept Haakon the Heir, the change was not retro-actively). In some countries the titles of the Royal House became limited to only the very closest relatives of the King (Spain and the Netherlands), in some countries ranks, titles and surnames were adapted, sometimes retro-actively (Luxembourg and Belgium), in some countries royals were prepared for a life outside the royal family as part of the aristocracy (Netherlands and Denmark), etc.

With other words, all this shows that a claim on "tradition" would have barred any of these changes. Princesses higher in the succession than their brother? No way! Allowing a British Prince to marry a "papist" and keep his rights? No way! Allowing the Emperor of Japan to abdicate? No way! Allowing a Prince of Sweden to marry a Swedish countryman's daughter? No way!

Conclusion: under pressure all becomes flexible. In the foreseeable future we will see:

HM the Queen of Norway (Ingrid Alexandra)
HRH The Prince Noname of Norway

HM The Queen of Sweden (Victoria)
HRH The Prince Daniel of Sweden

HM The Queen of Sweden (Estelle)
HRH The Prince Noname of Sweden

HM The Queen of the Netherlands (Catharina-Amalia)
HRH The Prince Noname of the Netherlands

HRH The Grand-Duchess of Luxembourg (Amalia)
HRH The Prince Noname of Luxembourg

HM The Queen of Spain (Leonor)
HRH The Prince Noname of Spain

Leaving only the spouse of Prince George and of Prince Christian known as "Her Majesty" and "Queen". And as in all these countries they become used to having a princely consort for decades, I can see the idea setting foot to treat female spouses exactly like male spouses. Morocco leads the way:

S.M. le Roi du Maroc
S.A.R. la princesse Lalla Salma du Maroc
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  #38  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:18 AM
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That might be true in all those countries, Duc. However, they do not have a Coronation ceremony, with all its religious elements and ritual. In the UK there are Coronations, in which a King AND his Queen Consort are crowned.

The ceremony is centuries old and the Queen consort's crowning is part of it, as is the end, where King and Queen process out of the Abbey together, wearing their crowns. If Britain continues to be a monarchy, unless that part of the ceremony is completely cut, then Kate will be crowned Queen (consort) in Westminster Abbey, as will George's wife, if he has one.
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  #39  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
That might be true in all those countries, Duc. However, they do not have a Coronation ceremony, with all its religious elements and ritual. In the UK there are Coronations, in which a King AND his Queen Consort are crowned.

The ceremony is centuries old and the Queen consort's crowning is part of it, as is the end, where King and Queen process out of the Abbey together, wearing their crowns. If Britain continues to be a monarchy, unless that part of the ceremony is completely cut, then Kate will be crowned Queen (consort) in Westminster Abbey, as will George's wife, if he has one.
Charles, William and George could still be crowned with all pomp and glitter as the monarch. But I do see the point that a spouse is not a monarch--not equal to the Head of State.
IF Camilla is not crowned Queen when Charles becomes King, then we have a precedent. I know that was put out at the time of their wedding to placate the critics, (Camilla not being "Queen" but Princess Consort) so who knows.
I know the traditions are long standing but so was male primogeniture. That has changed so why not "equality" of a male spouse vs a female spouse of a monarch.
I like tradition and change can be an anathema but I can see the validity of this argument.
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  #40  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I think it would take some getting used to, as everyone is used to a king's spouse being called Queen....but I was actually thinking this is probably much more likely to evolve as you have described. If indeed, when Prince Charles becomes king his wife is known/addressed as Princess Consort as has been said, rather than Queen Camilla, this sets some precedent. ... [snipped]
my bolding
I apologise for sounding trite ... You must surely know the reasons why The Duchess of Cornwall will be known as Princess Consort. It is obvious that the Clarence House regrets the statement made in 2005.
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