Orders & Sashes


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Why would they wear the Thistle instead of the Garter sash? Shouldn't it only have precedence in Scotland as the Garter is the more senior order nationwide?


Forgive the seven years it has taken to reply to this question. In the context of the State Opening of Parliament, on occasions when HRH The Duke of Edinburgh wears the uniform of Admiral of the Fleet, he wears the Collar, Badge (George) and Star of the Order of the Garter. This is the maximum amount of insignia of that order that may be worn at once. For that reason, as he is wearing the Garter collar, he wears the Sash, Badge and Star of his next most senior order (in this case, the Order of the Thistle).

To illustrate this point, if he was not a member of the Order of the Thistle, his next most senior order (other than the Order of Merit and Royal Victorian Chain, which only consist of one piece of insignia) would be his Sash, Badge and Star of a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire. He would wear the Collar, Badge and Star of the Order of the Garter and Sash, Badge and Star of the Order of the British Empire. This is only a hypothetical, other than occasions specifically relating to the Order of the British Empire (of which he is still Grand Master), the Duke of Edinburgh rarely wears any insignia or that order, other than the miniature when in evening dress, or the GBE Star when in Army uniform, which permits three stars to be worn at once.

I hope that helps.
 
Photo from the Spanish state dinner at Buckingham Palace

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEjxyxyXcAAiyg9.jpg

King Felipe is wearing the Order of the Golden Fleece (Sovereign's Neck Insignia, I suppose) and the riband, badge and star of the Order of the Garter (a rare combination indeed !) . Queen Elizabeth is also wearing the Golden Fleece (Dame's Ribbon Insignia).

Queen Letizia and Prince Philip are both wearing the sash of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III (Carlos III in Spanish). Can anyone identify Prince Philip's stars ? One of them should be the star of the Order of Charles III, but what about the other one (I can't see it in the picture) ? Also, which order is Philip wearing around his neck ? The Order of Merit perhaps ?

BTW, Wikipedia is now saying on its List of Honours of the British Royal Family article that Harry, Andrew and Anne got the grade of Grand Cross in the Order of Isabella the Catholic. I am not sure if that information is correct, as the grade has not been confirmed yet AFAIK, but if it is, it only adds to the mystery of why they didn't wear the sash of Isabella the Catholic at the banquet.
 
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The Order of Merit is around his neck and the stars would be British Empire and Thistle?

Does he not wear his Garter star with a foreign order?
 
Is the Princess Royal the only one Lady who wears the Garter sash ?
before her Princess Margaret ? the former Princess Royal ??
Never Kent or Gloucester Princesses ?
 
Is the Princess Royal the only one Lady who wears the Garter sash ?
before her Princess Margaret ? the former Princess Royal ??
Never Kent or Gloucester Princesses ?

Alexandra of Kent also is a Lady of the Garter
 
King Felipe is wearing the Order of the Golden Fleece (Sovereign's Neck Insignia, I suppose) and the riband, badge and star of the Order of the Garter (a rare combination indeed !)


This combination of orders would probably only be worn by the Spanish sovereign when attending formal British events.

Here are photos of King Juan Carlos and King Alfonso XIII wearing the same combination. For this formal British portrait, King Alfonso is, in addition to other medals and insignia, is also wearing the Royal Victorian Chain.
 

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BTW, Wikipedia is now saying on its List of Honours of the British Royal Family article that Harry, Andrew and Anne got the grade of Grand Cross in the Order of Isabella the Catholic. I am not sure if that information is correct, as the grade has not been confirmed yet AFAIK, but if it is, it only adds to the mystery of why they didn't wear the sash of Isabella the Catholic at the banquet.


I was wondering the same thing.

The Princess Royal, The Duke of York and Prince Harry all escorted TM's on various parts of their State Visit and as a thank you have been presented with The Order of Isabella the Catholic.

There are a number of grades to this Order and I am wondering if perhaps they received a grade (maybe "Commander by Number") to which the sash is not part of the insignia in the same way that Prince Harry's grade of the Royal Victorian Order does not include a sash.

You can see Prince Harry's breast star here to the left (on the right is his RVO breast star):
 

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Queen Letizia and Prince Philip are both wearing the sash of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III (Carlos III in Spanish). Can anyone identify Prince Philip's stars ? One of them should be the star of the Order of Charles III, but what about the other one (I can't see it in the picture) ? Also, which order is Philip wearing around his neck ? The Order of Merit perhaps ?

Prince Philip would be wearing the breast star or The Order of Charles III and his Garter star. It is hard to see in most of the photos but a bit easier is you watch a video of the Royal progression into the ballroom for the State Dinner.

Prince Charles wears his star of the Order of Charles III and his Garter star.

The Duke of Cambridge wears his Garter and Thistle stars.

Prince Harry wears his star of the Order of Isabella the Catholic and his star of the Royal Victorian Order.

You can also see a quick glimpse of The Duke of York wearing two stars - most likely the Order of Isabella the Catholic and his Garter star.

I am having trouble with The Princess Royal. I am pretty sure that she is wearing the star of the Order of Isabella the Catholic at the state Dinner, but I am not sure if she is wearing her Garter star.

Surprisingly, at the Guildhall dinner the next night, The Princess Royal is wearing her Garter sash and the star of the Order of Isabella the Catholic but NOT her Garter star. Perhaps it is too uncomfortable with all of those pointy stars??!!

EDIT - I stand corrected. In this better picture, you can see her Garter star further back round her waist.
This makes things right as I would not expect The PR to get something like this "wrong".

Here is a link is PP at a previous Spanish stare visit
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...5_VAhVLwYMKHRQVBIkQMwgnKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

Here is [a new picture] of The Princess Royal at the Guildhall. EDIT - If you click on it to enlarge you can see both stars.
 

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Is the Princess Royal the only one Lady who wears the Garter sash ?
before her Princess Margaret ? the former Princess Royal ??
Never Kent or Gloucester Princesses ?

For members of her family, HM seems to favour the Garter for only direct members of the family (i.e. of the Blood Royal) rather than those who have married into the British Royal family (such as the Duchesses of Gloucester, Kent and the Countess of Wessex) who usually progress through the ranks of The Royal Victorian Order instead.

I do not know if this is her preference or tradition. Queen Alexandra, Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) we Ladies of the Garter but only due to their elevation to consort.

Neither Princess Mary, Princess Royal (daughter of King George V and Queen Mary) or HM's sister Princess Margaret were Ladies of the Garter.

Princess (Queen) Beatrix and Queen Margrethe of Denmark are current Stranger Ladies of the Garter.

There is currently only one non-royal Lady of the Garter,
Elizabeth Lydia "Eliza" Manningham-Buller, Baroness Manningham-Buller.

The late Mary Soames, Baroness Soames (youngest child of Winston Churchill ) and Margaret Thatcher were also Ladies of the Garter.
 
The Order of Merit is around his neck and the stars would be British Empire and Thistle?

Does he not wear his Garter star with a foreign order?

Dear Rudolph

You are correct that Prince Philip wore the Order of Merit as a neck badge but I think that the stars being worn were the Order of Charles III and his Garter Star.
 
Why would they wear the Thistle instead of the Garter sash? Shouldn't it only have precedence in Scotland as the Garter is the more senior order nationwide?

The Order of the Garter only has precedence in England, not the throughout the UK.
 
Family Order

Heyyy everyone,
I want to know your opinion, i am about to create(in cooperation with other members of family) FAMILY ORDERS.We need to do this, because there is people which helped m, ancenstors and me, so we think it is the best way to show thankfullness by awarding with a family order. Of course, this is just a award from my family, not some state,(royal)or public decoration.We are just a small noble family nothing more.Send some designes or pictures of orders, help it :cool:
 
Are you sure about that ?

Garter is the highest order. When they go up there, Philip, Charles, Anne and William do not shift the "KG, KT" after their name to "KT, KG"
 
Orders of Australia

Like in Canada, the honours system in Australia includes both novel national Australian orders and UK/Commonwealth orders in the personal gift of the Sovereign. The national Australian orders properly do not currently confer knighthood although a grade of Knight/Dame of the Order of Australia (with the right to the use of the prefix Sir/Dame) was actively awarded between 1976 and 1983 and, most recently, in 2014-2015. Furthermore, unlike Canada, Australia still recognizes orders in the personal gift of the Sovereign that confer knighthood or grades within orders in the personal gift of the Sovereign that confer knighthood.


The current order of precedence for national Australian orders and UK/Commonwealth orders that are officially recognized in Australia is as follows (with the corresponding post-nominal letters on the left, Commowealth orders indicated in italics, and orders or grades that confer knighthood marked by an asterisk):



  • *KG/LG: Knight/Lady Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter
  • *KT/LT: Knight/Lady Companion of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle
  • OM: Member of the Order of Merit
  • *AK/AD: Knight/Dame of the Order of Australia (currently dormant)
  • *GCVO: Knight/Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order
  • AC: Companion of the Order of Australia
  • *KCVO/DCVO: Knight/Dame Commander of the Royal Victorian Order
  • AO: Officer of the Order of Australia
  • CVO: Commander of the Royal Victorian Order
  • AM: Member of the Order of Australia
  • LVO: Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order
  • MVO: Member of the Royal Victorian Order
As in Canada, the Order of the Bath, the Order of St Michael and St George, and the Order of the British Empire are now considered foreign orders in Australia, even though there are living Australian citizens who hold those orders.
 
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Orders of Canada

Canada has its own system of orders of merit, which includes both orders in the personal gift of the Sovereign that are also awarded in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries, and other novel national Canadian orders. In the case of Commonwealth orders, however, only grades that do not confer knighthood are awarded in Canada and, likewise, no national Canadian order confers knighthood.

New Canadian orders are always created by the Queen, as the Sovereign of the order, by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of Canada and the Royal Sign Manual, but are locally administered by the Governor General as Chancellor of the order. A category of Extra Companion now applies to members of the British Royal Family and also applies to former Governors General and their spouses; foreign citizens may be also appointed honorary companions, officers or members.

The precedence of the grades in the different national and Commonwealth orders currently awarded in Canada is as follows (with the corresponding post-nominal letters on the left column and Commonwealth orders indicated in italics):


  • OM: Member of the Order of Merit
  • CC: Companion of the Order of Canada
  • OC: Officer of the Order of Canada
  • CM: Member of the Order of Canada
  • CMM: Commander of the Order of Military Merit
  • COM: Commander of the Order of Merit of the Police Forces
  • CVO: Commander of the Royal Victorian Order
  • OMM: Officer of the Order of Military Merit
  • OOM: Officer of the Order of Merit of the Police Forces
  • LVO: Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order
  • MMM:Member of the Order of Military Merit
  • MOM: Member of the Order of Merit of the Police Forces
  • MVO: Member of the Royal Victorian Order
All UK orders other than the Order of Merit and the lower grades of the Royal Victorian Order that do not confer knighthood are now considered foreign orders in Canada and, as far as I understand, wearing them in Canada requires prior approval of the Canadian government.


Provincial Orders

Moreover, the different provinces of Canada also award their own orders of merit. Contrary to the national orders, however, the provincial orders are established directly by the respective Lieutenant Governor on the advice of the provincial government or by law passed by the respective Legislative Assembly. Provincial orders, therefore, rank lower than all national royal orders created by Letters Patent under the Royal Sign Manual.

As of today, precedence in the use of post-nominal letters of provincial orders is determined by chronological order of establishment of order. If an order has more than one grade, as in the case of the Ordre National du Québec, precedence is accorded to the higher grades over the lower ones. The current table of precedence, with the corresponding post-nominal letters on the left, is as follows:



  • GOQ: Grand officier de l'Ordre national du Québec
  • OQ: Officier de l'Ordre national du Québec
  • CQ: Chevalier de l'Ordre national du Québec
  • SOM: Saskatchewan Order of Merit
  • OOnt: Order of Ontario
  • OBC: Order of British Columbia
  • AOE: Alberta Order of Excellence
  • OPEI: Order of Prince Edward Island
  • OM: Order of Manitoba
  • ONB: Order of New Brunswick
  • ONS: Order of Nova Scotia
  • ONL: Order of Newfoundland and Labrador
 
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Is anyone au fait with Spanish Orders? I gather that the city/region of Madrid has its own Order, the Order of the Dos de Mayo, which comes with a sash and a Grand Cross. I haven't come across a European city having its own order, as opposed to a national order, before, and am quite interested in this - are there any more?
 
The late french President received Orders ans Sashes.
Too me they have to go back to the Orders ? Am I right ?
 
Which orders awarded by European monarchs have a collar (metallic chain) that is still worn in special occasions as insignia?


Here is a list of the ones I can remember (or whose collars I have already seen)



Denmark

  • Order of the Elephant
Norway


  • Order of St Olav
Spain


  • Order of the Golden Fleece
  • Order of Charles III
  • Order of Isabella the Catholic
  • Order of Civil Merit
Sweden


  • Order of the Seraphim
  • Order of the Polar Star
United Kingdom
  • Order of the Garter
  • Order of the Thistle
  • Order of the Bath
  • Order of St Michael and St George
  • Order of the British Empire
 
I add here the orders from Belgium and the Netherlands (I don't know if you have a leash).
Netherlands:
  • Order of the Netherlands Lion
  • Order of Orange-Nassau
  • Order of the Gold Lion of the House of Nassau
  • Order of the House of Orange
  • Order of the Crown

Belgium
  • Order of Leopold
  • Order of the African Star
  • Royal Order of the Lion
  • Order of the Crown
  • Order of Leopold II
 
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Thanka Blog Royal but the two African Orders are not of use anymore for the Belgians:
You are right We have Civil and Military Decorations from
The Order of Leopold : purple color
The Order of the Crown : Red color
The Order of Leopold II : blue color
 
Thanka Blog Royal but the two African Orders are not of use anymore for the Belgians:
You are right We have Civil and Military Decorations from
The Order of Leopold : purple color
The Order of the Crown : Red color
The Order of Leopold II : blue color


Thanks.

I believe, however, that the Belgian and Dutch orders don't have collars, which was the topic of my original post.
 
Chronology of some of the most illustrious orders (non-exhaustive list; orders still awarded by reigning monarchs are shown in boldface)


  • 1048: Order of St. John of Jerusalem (Holy Land)
  • 1099: Order of the Holy Sepulchre (Holy Land. officially constituted in the Kingdom of Jerusalem in 1103)
  • 1146: Order of Aviz (Portugal)
  • 1164: Order of Calatrava (Spain)
  • 1167: Order of Alcantara (Spain)
  • 1170: Order of Santiago (Spain)
  • 1172: Order of Saint James of the Sword (Portugal)
  • 1317: Order of Montesa (Spain)
  • 1319: Order of Christ (Portugal)
  • 1348: Order of the Garter (England)
  • 1362: Order of the Most Holy Annunciation (Savoy; later a national order of the Kingdom of Italy; now House of Savoy)
  • 1430: Order of the Golden Fleece (Burgundy; dynastic order of Spain since 1516)
  • 1459: Order of the Tower and Sword (Portugal)
  • 1469: Order of Saint Michael (France)
  • 1469: Order of Saint George (House of Habsburg)
  • 1578: Order of the Holy Spirit (France)
  • 1668: Order of the Starry Cross (House of Habsburg)
  • 1671: Order of the Dannebrog (Denmark)
  • 1687: Order of the Thistle (Scotland)
  • 1693: Order of the Elephant (Denmark)
  • 1694: Order of St Louis (France)
  • 1698: Order of St. Andrew (Russia)
  • 1705: Order of the White Eagle (Poland)
  • 1725: Order of the Bath (Great Britain)
  • 1748: Order of the Seraphim (Sweden)
  • 1748: Order of the Sword (Sweden; dormant)
  • 1748: Order of the Polar Star (Sweden)
  • 1764: Order of St Stephen (Hungary)
  • 1769: Order of St. George the Triumphant (Russia)
  • 1771: Order of Carlos III (Spain)
  • 1772: Order of Vasa (Sweden, dormant)
  • 1783: Order of St Patrick (Ireland, no longer awarded)
  • 1792: Order of Queen Maria Luisa (Spain, dormant)
  • 1811: Order of Charles XIII (Sweden)
  • 1815: Order of Isabella the Catholic (Spain)
  • 1815: Military Willem Order (the Netherlands)
  • 1815: Order of the Netherlands Lion (the Netherlands)
  • 1818: Order of St Michael and St George (United Kingdom)
  • 1822: Order of the Southern Cross (Brazil)
  • 1832: Order of Leopold (Belgium)
  • 1847: Order of St Olav (Norway)
  • 1858: Order of the Gold Lion of the House of Nassau (Luxembourg)
  • 1892: Order of Orange-Nassau (the Netherlands)
  • 1896: Royal Victorian Order (United Kingdom)
  • 1897: Order of the Crown (Congo Free State; Belgian order since 1908)
  • 1898: Imperial Austrian Order of Elizabeth (Austria-Hungary. now House of Habsburg)
  • 1900: Order of Leopold II (Congo Free State; Belgian order since 1908)
  • 1905: Order of the House of Orange (the Netherlands; reorganized in 1969)
  • 1916: Order of Michael the Brave (Romania)
  • 1917: Order of the British Empire (United Kingdom)
  • 1967: Order of Canada (established by Queen Elizabeth II as Queen of Canada)
  • 1975: Order of Australia (established by Queen Elizabeth II as Queen of Australia)
  • 1996: New Zealand Order of Merit (established by Queen Elizabeth II as Queen of New Zealand)
 
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The following royal or dynastic orders (usually the highest or most prestigious in their respective countries) are awarded in a single grade of knight/lady or member by reigning monarchs (in chronological order):



Order of the Garter
Order of the Golden Fleece

Order of the Thistle
Order of the Elephant
Order of the Seraphim


The late french President received Orders ans Sashes.
Too me they have to go back to the Orders ? Am I right ?


I believe it depends on the regulations of each individual order. Collars like the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece have to be returned to the order after the demise of a knight or member (as they are numbered and valuable, being made of precious metals), but, in general, other insignia like sashes, stars and badges may be kept by the family of the deceased. Can anybody else please confirm?
 
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Belgium don't have a Collar.

There are collars of the Leopoldsorde but after Baudouin the Kings stopped the use of it:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...er_van_de_Leopoldsorde_Grand_Curtius_Luik.jpg


The King wore a collar on his wedding day with Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón, that does not look alike the Leopoldsorde. I think the collar of the Orden Isabel la Católica.
https://gisterennogvandaag.files.wo...van-koning-boudewijn-met-fabiola.14.jpg?w=576


King Willem I (Sovereign over the three Benelux states) was given designs for collars for Orders for the new kingdom. But the King preferred simplicity and found the designs too ostentatious.
 
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Yes King Baudoin wore the Collar of the Order Isabella la Catolica on his Wedding Day.
 
The Belgian Kings are Member of the Austrian Order of the Golden Fleece.
King Albert II received the Spanish Order from King Juan Carlos during his State Visit.
They never wear the Order ??
 
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