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  #321  
Old 04-29-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Duc-Do you know if Maxima is still a practicing Catholic? By that do you know if she attends Mass regularly or on Holy Days of Obligation?
Your question has been asked before in these forums and the answer honestly is that nobody really knows for sure. All I can say is that Maxima was married in the Protestant church, baptized her three daughters in the Protestant church, and has been seen attending Protestant services with her husband. She claims though that she has not converted and that she remains a Catholic.
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  #322  
Old 04-29-2015, 10:08 AM
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If she were a Catholic there's no way she'd agree for her children to be raised outside the Faith. She may claim to still be Catholic but a lot of people claim to be Catholic and rarely darken the door to Church except maybe on Easter/Christmas...I am guessing this has something to do with her not being extended the privledge of wearing white.
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  #323  
Old 04-29-2015, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
If she were a Catholic there's no way she'd agree for her children to be raised outside the Faith. She may claim to still be Catholic but a lot of people claim to be Catholic and rarely darken the door to Church except maybe on Easter/Christmas...I am guessing this has something to do with her not being extended the privledge of wearing white.

Even if she was a practicing Catholic she would still have to wear black. It has nothing to do with her religion but instead with that of her country which by tradition has been fiercely Protestant.


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  #324  
Old 04-29-2015, 11:01 AM
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Even if she was a practicing Catholic she would still have to wear black. It has nothing to do with her religion but instead with that of her country which by tradition has been fiercely Protestant.


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Eeerrrhhhh.... however the House of Orange-Nassau has a protestant tradition, the Roman-Catholics are the biggest Christian denomination in the Netherlands. Unless there is a "state religion" no any country can claim to be "catholic" these days....

The once so protestant House of Orange-Nassau has a lot of non-Protestant descendants from Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard:

Queen Máxima
Countess Joanna Zaria (baptized by a former Catholic Priest but not registered in any Church)
Countess Emma Luana (baptized by a former Catholic Priest but not registered in any Church)
Princess Irene (converted to Catholicism)
The Duke of Parma
Princess Luisa
Princess Cecilia
Princess Margarita
Tjalling ten Cate
Julia ten Cate
Paola ten Cate
Prince Jaime
Princess Viktória
Princess Zita
Princess María Carolina
Albert Brenninmeijer
Alaïa-Maria Brenninkmeijer
Princess Marilène
Princess Christina (converted to Catholicism)
Bernardo Guillermo
Isabel Guillermo
Julian Guillermo
Nicolàs Guillermo
Juliana Guillermo

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  #325  
Old 04-29-2015, 12:56 PM
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Come om Duc et Pair, you know as well as i do that even though there are catholic members of the dutch RF, the core people are protestants and are so with conviction.
That the NL largest religious population is catholic has always been the case, but that has never had any impact on the Oranje family (it has been a long existing idea that that is one of the reasons why the dutch RF was never (and still isn't) as popular with the catholic dutch people as with the protestant/other christian denominations; Koningsdag is celebrated in the catholic south because it's a free day off work, not because of the Oranjes)

The privilege de blanc, when it was rigidly followed, was bestowed to specific queens of specific monarchies, and it was just a privilege, not a must to wear white even if one had the privilege.
Nowadays the Vatican doesn't seem that focussed on the color anymore, so not really much to discuss anyway..

obviously imo
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  #326  
Old 04-29-2015, 01:14 PM
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It was just an illustration that the once staunch Protestant Dutch royal family (Princess Beatrix' own grandmother had an immense distrust in "those papists", only after WWII it changed a bit) has now more catholic family members than Protestants. That is all, dank u. The King also does come over to me as someone who does not give a lot about the Protestant tradition and feels as easy in a Catholic service as in a Protestant one.
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  #327  
Old 04-29-2015, 01:15 PM
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As I understand it, the privilege is reserved only to reigning queens or queen consorts of the designated "Catholic monarchies". As of today, it applies only to Spain, Belgium , Luxembourg and, exceptionally, to princesses of the former Italian royal house. In the past, the queens of France also held the privilege.
And the Princess of Monaco, now it seems. Now we can wait for the Fürstin von and zu Liechtenstein to wear white. It is totally unclear.
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  #328  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
If she were a Catholic there's no way she'd agree for her children to be raised outside the Faith. She may claim to still be Catholic but a lot of people claim to be Catholic and rarely darken the door to Church except maybe on Easter/Christmas...I am guessing this has something to do with her not being extended the privledge of wearing white.
You'd be wrong, though. I believe I read that one of the stipulations in her marrying W-A was that the children were to be raised Protestant. This is particularly important given their eldest child will be queen one day, and to my knowledge the monarch of the Netherlands has always been a Protestant, at least for the last 400 years, anyway. Maxima can practice her own faith as she sees fit, but when you marry the heir to the throne, some things must be conceded upon. If you love someone, and it's obvious Maxima and W-A love each other, you meet each other halfway.

Interfaith relationships, particularly between Catholics and other religions, are hardly rare. I know of three that are between Catholics and Jews, and in all cases, the agreement was boys are to be raised Jewish, girls as Catholics.
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  #329  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:19 AM
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You'd be wrong, though. I believe I read that one of the stipulations in her marrying W-A was that the children were to be raised Protestant. This is particularly important given their eldest child will be queen one day, and to my knowledge the monarch of the Netherlands has always been a Protestant, at least for the last 400 years, anyway. Maxima can practice her own faith as she sees fit, but when you marry the heir to the throne, some things must be conceded upon. If you love someone, and it's obvious Maxima and W-A love each other, you meet each other halfway.

Interfaith relationships, particularly between Catholics and other religions, are hardly rare. I know of three that are between Catholics and Jews, and in all cases, the agreement was boys are to be raised Jewish, girls as Catholics.
If you marry in a Catholic Church you are required to agree to raise your children as Catholics. Since this was not the case for Max/WA, it's not an issue.
Not that most Catholic Diocese would be pleased about Max not wedding in in the catholic rite (it is a sacrament) and raising the family outside the faith.
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  #330  
Old 05-03-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
You'd be wrong, though. I believe I read that one of the stipulations in her marrying W-A was that the children were to be raised Protestant. This is particularly important given their eldest child will be queen one day, and to my knowledge the monarch of the Netherlands has always been a Protestant, at least for the last 400 years, anyway. Maxima can practice her own faith as she sees fit, but when you marry the heir to the throne, some things must be conceded upon. If you love someone, and it's obvious Maxima and W-A love each other, you meet each other halfway.

Interfaith relationships, particularly between Catholics and other religions, are hardly rare. I know of three that are between Catholics and Jews, and in all cases, the agreement was boys are to be raised Jewish, girls as Catholics.

You are making my point for me. If she were serious about her faith she would not have agreed to raise her children Protestant (I don't care who it is she would marry)....I realizes the ins and outs of marrying who she did and that the children would need to be raised in that Church much like the heirs in the BRF. However that's not my point.

If you have an interfaith Catholic marriage that is recognized by the Church as valid and Sacramental then you are required to state you will do your best to see them raised in the Catholic Faith. If the parents had some sort of other agreement as you mentioned then they are not living up to what they agreed to. It doesn't surprise me...there are many people who self identify as Catholic (or Protestant) yet they don't practice their faith as they should.

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  #331  
Old 05-03-2015, 06:12 PM
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Royals Visiting the Pope

I found this photo of Queen Josefina of Sweden-Norway taken in May 1875 when she visited the Pope in Rome. Although married to King Oscar I she had been allowed to retain her Catholic faith. Name:  ImageUploadedByThe Royals Community1430691123.256478.jpg
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  #332  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You are making my point for me. If she were serious about her faith she would not have agreed to raise her children Protestant (I don't care who it is she would marry)....I realizes the ins and outs of marrying who she did and that the children would need to be raised in that Church much like the heirs in the BRF. However that's not my point.

If you have an interfaith Catholic marriage that is recognized by the Church as valid and Sacramental then you are required to state you will do your best to see them raised in the Catholic Faith. If the parents had some sort of other agreement as you mentioned then they are not living up to what they agreed to. It doesn't surprise me...there are many people who self identify as Catholic (or Protestant) yet they don't practice their faith as they should.

LaRae
I don't believe you, me, or anyone else has the right to make a judgement on the sincerity of someone else's religious convictions, royalty or otherwise. You don't know Maxima, so how you've come to the determination that because she married a non-Catholic and in so doing, had to agree to raise any children they had as Protestants, she is not a good enough Catholic in your eyes....I don't get it. It sounds wrong and it sounds very hurtful.

Maybe it's my atheism shining through, but my opinions are my own and someone else's are theirs. If a Catholic and a Jew get married and agree to raise boys Jewish and girls Catholic.....good for them. It's their life, and it's not my place to say the father is a bad Jew or the mother is a bad Catholic.
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  #333  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:41 AM
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When the Prince engaged with Ms Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti (March 2011) it was said that she would "study Protestantism". In November 2011 the State Information Agency informed that the Bishop of Rotterdam, Mgr A.H. van Luyn s.d.b., has given canonical dispensation for her intended marriage. With this announcement it became clear that the "study of Protestantism" by the fiancée has apparently had led to a desire for a conversion.

The Diocese of Rotterdam explained that the civil (!) marriage of Ms Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti would be recognized. The Roman-Catholic Church then recognizes the marriage which is executed before the municipal registrar as a canonical legal marriage. After all, it was about a marriage between two christened persons. For the Roman-Catholic Church this means that the (Protestant) religious marriage between the two has no sacramental value.

This was a "canonical emergency exit" for the Roman-Catholic Church. Why? A Catholic partner has to promise "with everything which is in his/her power" to avoid "heresy" and to have eventual children baptized in the Roman-Catholic Church and raise these according the Catholic teachings. It was already announced (at the engagement) that eventual children of Prince Willem-Alexander and Máxima would be baptized in the Protestant Church and would receive a protestant upbringing. This means that Máxima could make a vow but it would be impossible for her to sustain it. Such a vow would be meaningless. So the Roman-Catholic Church avoided the inter-religious religious marriage between the Prince and Máxima and recognized the civil marriage (the one and only legal binding marriage in the Netherlands) as canonical valid for the Roman-Catholic Church.
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  #334  
Old 05-04-2015, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
I don't believe you, me, or anyone else has the right to make a judgement on the sincerity of someone else's religious convictions, royalty or otherwise. You don't know Maxima, so how you've come to the determination that because she married a non-Catholic and in so doing, had to agree to raise any children they had as Protestants, she is not a good enough Catholic in your eyes....I don't get it. It sounds wrong and it sounds very hurtful.

Maybe it's my atheism shining through, but my opinions are my own and someone else's are theirs. If a Catholic and a Jew get married and agree to raise boys Jewish and girls Catholic.....good for them. It's their life, and it's not my place to say the father is a bad Jew or the mother is a bad Catholic.

When you take membership in a Faith there are things by virtue of your professed belief that you agree to espouse. No one forces you do do this ...if you don't want to you don't have, however don't pretend to and don't make false vows or oaths.

Just like if you said to everyone that you have a degree in Science and work in a lab yet you refuse to follow the rules of science to prove your experiments were accurate. You would not consider that person to be a scientist with any standing.

So no it's not just 'their life'. If they don't want anyone from that community (faith or science) commenting as to their actions they should live up to what to what they agree to . This doesn't mean you have to be mean spirited about it. Simply pointing out that, hey if they are really faithful they wouldn't do X doesn't mean you are 'mean'.....as Christians you are called to hold each other accountable for their behavior. Science does the same to their members.


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  #335  
Old 01-20-2016, 05:36 PM
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Remove to the right threat if this post is not right for here:

I have a question about the "privelege du blanc": Princess Marie of Liechtenstein is Roman Catholic like a husband. Why does she not have the "privelege du blanc"?
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  #336  
Old 01-20-2016, 06:24 PM
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I have a question about the "privelege du blanc": Princess Marie of Liechtenstein is Roman Catholic like a husband. Why does she not have the "privelege du blanc"?
Does it have to do with being head of state/wed to head of state and royalty as well?
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  #337  
Old 01-20-2016, 07:11 PM
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From what I understand Lichtenstein doesn't qualify as it is a principality. Its reigning prince is only HSH, and it is a princely not 'royal' family. You have to be the catholic Monarch or his spouse of a predominately Catholic country. In the past Austria, Bohemia, France, Italy and others were granted the priviledge but not since they were abolished, though the house of Savoy seems to be permitted.

Seeing as Monaco has been granted it recently, will be interesting to see if Lich is granted the right in the future.
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  #338  
Old 01-20-2016, 07:19 PM
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It's all nonsense. Who cares who wears what.
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  #339  
Old 01-20-2016, 07:43 PM
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It's all nonsense. Who cares who wears what.
Well, I don't think this Pope does. But someone in the papal office let Charlene of Monaco know she could switch from black to white. So, someone cares. And posters here do as well.

It actually occurred to me that Charlene chose something not over-the-top-new-expensive to wear. Which would have pleased this Pope and his focus on substance over style.
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  #340  
Old 01-20-2016, 08:06 PM
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It's all nonsense. Who cares who wears what.
Catholics, or at least many of us, do. Its simply tradition/custom. There have been women who have worn white when not allowed to and the Pope has said nothing. But as a church, they are steeped in traditions. Some traditions definitely need changing like how close minded to gays for instance IMO, others like dress code, there is no harm in the tradition.
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