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  #141  
Old 11-30-2008, 12:14 PM
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Do you remember the Grand-Duke's and his wife State Visit in Sweden. The second day they hosted the Swedish RF, MT came first with a tiara and as Queen Silvia and her daughters did not wear any tiara, MT had to take her tiara of !!
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  #142  
Old 11-30-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Do you remember the Grand-Duke's and his wife State Visit in Sweden. The second day they hosted the Swedish RF, MT came first with a tiara and as Queen Silvia and her daughters did not wear any tiara, MT had to take her tiara of !!
i guess that was then the swedes fault. state visits are a perfect scenario to wear tiaras. i believe maria teresa was just being courteous as always taking hers off.
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  #143  
Old 11-30-2008, 12:42 PM
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I think that it was very couteous and gracious of Maria-Teresa to take off her tiara. As any woman knows, once you have your hair styled, it can be a bother to have to restyle it again.
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  #144  
Old 11-30-2008, 01:06 PM
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i am suprise the sedish royals did not use it, it 'nt suppose this thing are arange in advance????
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  #145  
Old 11-30-2008, 03:34 PM
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Well normally they would've had expectations communicated, but it obviously didnt work in this case.
If I remember correctly, it was an event hosted by the guests, so the communications should have been made to the Swedes...
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  #146  
Old 11-30-2008, 03:58 PM
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I remember a faux pas Maxima almost did, when on a state visit to some south American country, she almost stepped out b4 the Queen, and was stopped, and photographed with a "yikes" expression on her face...
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  #147  
Old 11-30-2008, 04:20 PM
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Yes, i remember Rania wearing a long white and purple skirt
Me too. Very nice and innapropiate dress for a wedding in Spain.

Regards!!
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  #148  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 PM
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I remember a faux pas Maxima almost did, when on a state visit to some south American country, she almost stepped out b4 the Queen, and was stopped, and photographed with a "yikes" expression on her face...
I'm pretty sure that happened during the State Visit to Argentina.
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  #149  
Old 12-01-2008, 01:04 AM
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I think Albert of Monaco is braking protocol by taking Charlene Wittstock to so many official events. She was even taken to some event in Monaco where she was given flowers, during that event she was wearing outfit that was looking like Monegasque national outfit. So far, Charlene is not official fiance.
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  #150  
Old 12-01-2008, 02:46 PM
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I'm pretty sure that happened during the State Visit to Argentina.
You are probably correct!
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  #151  
Old 01-20-2009, 03:03 PM
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Did anyone mention how both Queen Elizabeth (Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon) and Queen Mary (Mary of Teck) broke the protocol by attending their child's coronation? I know that Mary of Teck did it to show support her son who never expected to become a monarch, but I don't know why Elizabeth decided to do it.
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  #152  
Old 01-20-2009, 03:45 PM
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Why was it against to the protocol for mothers to attend the coronation ceremonies of their children?
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  #153  
Old 01-20-2009, 03:51 PM
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Because crowned persons usually do not attend coronations of other persons. This is because the service usually includes a show of obeisance to the sovereign and kings and queens do not show each other obeisance as they are equals. A crowned queen or king could attend coronation of a pope, because pope is higher than king. That's why The Prince of Wales, the then Princess of Wales (Diana Spencer) and The Duke of Edinburgh attended the enthronement of The Emperor of Japan, but the The Queen didn't.
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  #154  
Old 01-20-2009, 06:14 PM
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Thanks for the explanation! According to Pikul, Dowager Empress Maria Fedorovna attended the coronation ceremony of Nicholas II, but she never bowed/paid obeisance to her son.
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  #155  
Old 01-23-2009, 10:13 AM
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The Pope may be higher than a Catholic King but I am afraid I can't agree that he takes precedence over a Sovereign who does not owe him any loyalty e.e. EIIR.

Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother did not break protocol only tradition by attending HM's coronaton in 1953, she did make obeisance to The Queen when she arrived (though it wasn't a very deep curtsy).
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  #156  
Old 11-30-2010, 05:58 PM
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How about Princess Mabel's outfit at Crown Princess Victoria's wedding? More a fashion error than a protocol breach?
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  #157  
Old 02-09-2011, 08:26 PM
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Fascinating thread. All protocol has its roots in tradition, and there's scarcely a tradition that is practiced from time immemorial.

Politeness, etiquette and politesse probably overlap with protocol, but protocol is closer to the word "regulations" than it is to the word "etiquette." The word itself doesn't enter English until the 16th century, and comes from the Latin, where its first use of course, had nothing to do with Catholicism. The Romans took the word from the Greek s(protokollan, original glue.

So protocoli change over time, which is why I personally find the study of both protocol and etiquette so interesting. I do not think wearing a long skirt to a morning wedding is a breach of protocol, but it is a breach of standard Euro-American etiquette. Etiquette (a French word, of course) comes into English later than protocoli. Etiquette is highly standardized in Europe by the early 19th century, which is probably when the wedding dress rules were formalized, although those rules are based on earlier ones. I can't remember when it was (during the Renaissance) that wearing white at weddings become popular, but I believe it was Italian Renaissance princesses/duchesses who popularized it (previously, black had been the color in many places; Eastern Europe often had a different code of color for events). It's fascinating just to think about how white has caught on as the official or preferred color for wedding dresses - relatively recently (and of course, not everywhere).

All cultures have etiquette of course, whether they have the word or not, but to me the word today means a specific system, which forbids wearing of certain garments at certain times of the day, if one is to be proper. I don't think such rules are ever supposed to be put on the wedding invitations, myself!

Protocol is, according to most standard definitions, internationally agreed upon etiquette for use in diplomatic situations. Diplomats, heads of state and others are supposed to know and follow it, but I wonder if Queen Rania really has an on-staff expert on Western protocol.

I believe that if royals and others don't follow protocol and etiquette, their status is diminished, and probably more so than by almost anything else they might do. Naturally, younger royals aren't forever besmirched by breaches, but older royals really do have to teach and model the rules (it seems there are so many).

If a senior royal decides to modify a rule of etiquette (or even protocol), that's precisely how etiquette changes. Future monarchs either will or won't bow/curtsy at funeral corteges of those who are not monarchs; there will probably be opportunities to observe this in our lifetimes.

I believe that protocol changes only when heads of more than one state agree upon it, but that may be the personal spin I put on the word.

And, since we have no reigning royals in the countries where I spend most of my time, let me add that heads of state are not merely royals - but they should follow protocol as well.

And have manners.
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  #158  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:53 AM
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All cultures have etiquette of course, whether they have the word or not, but to me the word today means a specific system, which forbids wearing of certain garments at certain times of the day, if one is to be proper. I don't think such rules are ever supposed to be put on the wedding invitations, myself!
Do you mean that Dresscodes shouldn't be put on wedding invitations per se, or only not on royal invitations? or do you mean something else? How about the RSVP?
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  #159  
Old 07-23-2011, 09:11 PM
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Heads of state have equal status and they should not attend their counterparts' coronations or enthronements, but in the case of recently widowed former queen consorts, this rule does not apply. George VI was his mother's Sovereign and Elizabeth II was The Queen Mother's Sovereign too, so they were entitled and obliged by protocol to show their allegiance. They were crowned as consorts and not as reigning monarchs!
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  #160  
Old 07-30-2011, 07:52 AM
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How about Princess Mabel's outfit at Crown Princess Victoria's wedding? More a fashion error than a protocol breach?
I think something happened to the dress she had planned to wear at the wedding and she had to do the best she could with what she had at hand or not attend the wedding service at all. It would have been more of a protocol breach not to attend I guess.
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