Royal Standards and Coats of Arms

[Warren]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada

I think not.
The arms of the POW are...

Lord Sosnowitz did not describe them as "the arms of the Prince of Wales" but as "Dual crest of TRH The Prince of Wales & The Duchess of Cornwall". Your "I think not" statement was an unnecessarily abrupt response to a member who has provided so much of the content of this thread. The precise description of the POW arms, however, is useful information for members.

Originally Posted by Lord Sosnowitz

Yes but this coat of armses use just in Scotland!

Thanks for posting the image in question Lord S as it shows an interesting combination of symbols with the emphasis on the Royal Arms of Scotland, and including the Duke and Duchess of Rothesay (the heir to the throne's Scottish dukedom as signified by the top two banners, overlaid by the Royal crown), the Prince of Wales (the POW feathers), the Duchy of Cornwall (the black shield with yellow dots), and Camilla's own boar's head.

[eborarmorist]

Coat of arms of:-
HM Queen Fabiola of the Belgians
HM Queen Paola of the Belgians

[eborarmorist]

Coat of Arms of HRH The Duchess of Gloucester (neé Birgitte van Deurs)
Assigned by Royal Warrant 18 Jul 1973
Image reconstructed from information in Boutell's Heraldry (a 1970's edn.):-
Basic Arms
Marital Arms, with Van Deurs arms 'in pretence' in centre of Duke's arms

[Lord Sosnowitz]

Oh, I have never seen such as that british royal arms, where the wife's crest in centre of husbands's arms ! ! !

[eborarmorist]

Yes, it is unusual and I'm not immediately aware of another case. This arrangement does often appear in the heraldry of nobilty and gentry. Although I was vaguely aware of the Duchess's basic arms, it was only when I went back to my note in order to do the graphic that I saw this and was surprised. The reason, I suspect, is that that the Duchess had no brothers - I've not verified this - in which case in English heraldry she is an 'heraldic heiress' capable of transmitting her father's arms to her children. In these cases the custom is for the wife's arms to be borne in the centre of the husband's ('in pretence'), rather than side by side ('impaled' on one shield, or 'accollée' on two shields). The source is reliable as this edition of Boutell (a standard work) was edited by John Brooke-Little, a member of the (English) College of Arms at the time.

Incidentally, thankyou you for all your heraldic posts - kösönöm szépen.

[Lord Sosnowitz]

Possible . . . I saw it just Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden's arms (see above).

[eborarmorist]

Further to my posts re HRH [Princess Birgitte] Duchess of Gloucester, here are the shields for the following:-
HRH [Prince Henry] Duke of Gloucester (1900-1974) - left
HRH Prince William of Gloucester (1941-1972) - center
HRH [Prince Richard] Duke of Gloucester (b 1944) - right
The small difference marks on the labels are St George's crosses and red lions passant gardant ('lions of England')

[eborarmorist]

As I understand it, the custom in the Swedish Royal Family is for the Queen's arms to be that of the King, but with the inner shield of Vasa/Bernadotte replaced by that of her own family. This also seems to apply to the wives of princes. For example here are the shields of HRH Prince Bertil, Duke of Halland, the present King's late uncle and that of his wife HRH Princess Lilian, Duchess of Halland. This image of Princess Lilian's arms is recreated from a picture of her plaque as a member of the Order of the Seraphim:-
HRH Prince Bertil, Duke of Halland - left
HRH Princess Lilian, Duchess of Halland - right

[Lord Sosnowitz]

That's great!
You are really fantastic, I haven't found it.
Do U know anything about Norwegian Royal armses? (Q Sonja, CP, CPss, Martha Louise, Astrid, Ragnhild)

[eborarmorist]

<Lord Sosnowitz>
Thankyou for your kind words.
The information re Princess Lilian came from a wonderful book:-
<Kungliga Serafimerorden, 1748-1998> by Per Nordenvall published Stockholm: Kungl Maj:ts orden 1998 (ISBN:9163067447) : I saw this in a library in the UK.
This has colour photos of all the heraldic plaques of the members of the Seraphim Order including famous Swedes and members of the Royal family.
I have some other examples but haven't created graphics yet:-
Queen Louise, wife of King Gustav VI Adolf; Crown Princess Sibylla, mother of King Carl XVI Gustav; Princess Ingeborg, wife of Prince Carl, Duke of Västergötland.

Re: the Norwegian Royals, I'm not aware of any individual arms for these. Queen Sonja's Seraphim armorial plaque shows the same arms as the King.
However I've asked this question on the Scandinavian Heraldry Forum.

[eborarmorist]

Here are the arms of the following:-

Left
Queen Louise (née Battenberg/Mountbatten), wife of Gustav VI Adolf
Centre
Crown Princess Sibylla, Duchess of Västerbotten, mother of King Carl XVI Gustav
Right
Princess Ingeborg (née Princess of Denmark), wife of Prince Carl, Duke of Västergötland, and mother of Queen Astrid of Belgium and Crown Princess Märtha of Norway

[Warren]

It's worth adding that Crown Princess Sibylla was born a Princess of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha and Duchess of Saxony, and the inner shield of her Swedish arms is that of Saxony.

[Emeralds and Opals]

Dear Warren,

Does Denmark have the blue lions and the red hearts because Luneberg used to part of the Denmark or the royal houses of Oldenburg and Gluckburg used to have Luneberg as part of their lands?

Does CPss Letizia's family of Ortiz y Roscolano have a coat of arms or did the Spanish Heraldic organisation created one for her i.e. like the Spanish and Argentinan Heraldic organisations did after researching CPss Maxima's ancestor from Spain, whose descendants settled later in Argentina in which her father Jorge is a direct descendant through the male line?

BTW, was the original spelling of CPss Maxima's maiden name with a S in Spain but, when the family emigrated to Argentina it was changed to a Z?

Do you think that P Christian and Pss Isabella of Denmark shall have their coat of arms displayed once they turn 18?

Does GD Maria-Terese of Luxembourg's family have a coat of arms?

Does Mabel, the wife of Prince Johan-Friso have a coat of arms from her family?

Does anyone know whether Camilla's father was related somehow to the Middleton family since that was one of his christian names? Does Kate Middleton's family or Chelsy Davy's family have a coat of arms?

Does CPss Mette-Marit of Norway's family and Ari Behn's family have a coat of arms?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers and Thank you,
Emeralds and Opals

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Emeralds and Opals

Does Denmark have the blue lions and the red hearts because Luneberg used to part of the Denmark or the royal houses of Oldenburg and Gluckburg used to have Luneberg as part of their lands?

The arms of Denmark (here) - three running crowned blue lions in a gold field dotted with red hearts - first appeared about 1190, roughly the same time as the arms of Brunswick and Lüneburg (here). The Lüneburg arms are "related' to those of Denmark, which would suggest the Danish arms came first.

The Oldenburg arms are unrelated, being two red bars on a gold background - see here. The arms of the Duchy of Schleswig were two lions on a gold background (here), and the arms of the County of Holstein were originally a form of indented bordure which came to be regarded as a nettle leaf (white on a red background) "characteristic of the prickly nature of the folk of Holstein." The arms of Schleswig-Holstein can be seen here while S-H-Sonderburg-Glücksburg has the shield of Oldenburg in the centre.

source: Lines of Succession - Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe by Jiri Louda & Michael Maclagan 1981

[Lord Sosnowitz]

Originally Posted by eborarmorist

Here are the arms of the following:-

Left
Queen Louise (née Battenberg/Mountbatten), wife of Gustav VI Adolf
Centre
Crown Princess Sibylla, Duchess of Västerbotten, mother of King Carl XVI Gustav
Right
Princess Ingeborg (née Princess of Denmark), wife of Prince Carl, Duke of Västergötland, and mother of Queen Astrid of Belgium and Crown Princess Märtha of Norway

It's so nice! And it's not similar to TRH Crown Princess, Madeleine, Carl Philip's armses.
Have U ever seen HRH Princess Laurentien, TIRH Archduchess Astrid, Lorenz, Princess Claire, Prince Laurent's armses? Or TRH Infanta Cristina, Elena's armses? The Princess of Hannover's arms?

[eborarmorist]

Lord Sosnowitz asked:-
Have U ever seen HRH Princess Laurentien, TIRH Archduchess Astrid, Lorenz, Princess Claire, Prince Laurent's armses? Or TRH Infanta Cristina, Elena's armses? The Princess of Hannover's arms?

Sorry, I have no info on these at the moment.

[harrydeharigeaap]

Do you have any pictures of the arms of the Duchess of kent and her children, the children of the Duke of Gloucester, the children of Princess Margaret or the children of Princess Anne?

[Lord Sosnowitz]

I think they haven't got own armses (Zara & Peter)! But Lord Ulster, Lord St.Andrews must have!