Royal Cyphers, Coronets, Arms and Monograms

[Osipi]

Yes, I believe David Matthews, Pippa's father in law, has a worthless lairdship attached to his Highland estate, which he never uses.

However, if Meghan becomes a member of the BRF she would have to have her own coat of arms. They all have them. So either Garter Herald is going to have to write to Mr Markle in Mexico suggesting he apply as of day of engagement, or else, in the name of gender equality they might grant Meghan her own without her father's involvement. Don't know how that would be done though!

The more I read, the more I'm leaning towards Meghan being granted her own coat of arms in her own right. According to the link I posted:

"While arms and crest are personal to their bearers the badge may be used by others wishing to show connection or allegiance to the individual or corporation to whom it belongs. Thus it is appropriate for the employees of a company to wear a tie bearing the company's badge, but not the company's arms. The grandchildren in the female line of a man entitled to arms may not use his arms or crest but can quite properly wear his badge, and often do so in the form of a brooch."

I don't know much about Mr. Markle's heritage but in order for him to apply and be granted a British coat of arms, I think he needs to be able to prove descent from a subject of the British Crown as stated in the post I made earlier.

I think most likely it will be just Meghan personally that will be granted a coat of arms. Will be interesting to see what it looks like.

I also found Sarah Ferguson's family coat of arms that she used prior to her marriage to Andrew.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Sarah_Ferguson.svg

It looks to be that it was modified at the time of her marriage to Andrew and this is the coat of arms that is shown for Sarah on her own thread here.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...k-current-events-18-january-2014-a-36224.html

 

[Somebody]

As a member of the BRF Meghan will have to have a coat of arms, which is quartered with her husband's . Everyone does. Queen Letizia of Spain and Crown Princess Mary of Denmark were foreigners who had coats of arms granted to them. Sophie Wessex has a cost of arms I believe and Sarah of York certainly did.

She might have American or Californian symbols on it, or the classic drama mask, something like that.

However, the question was whether her father would be given a Coat of Arms (to be used for 'her personal contribution' to her formal coat of arms) and that seems highly unlikely. For sure, they will create something for her if there is nothing readily available (as is the case for Meghan).

 

[jacqui24]

However, the question was whether her father would be given a Coat of Arms (to be used for 'her personal contribution' to her formal coat of arms) and that seems highly unlikely. For sure, they will create something for her if there is nothing readily available (as is the case for Meghan).

Yea, I don't see Meghan's father requesting a coat of arms unless he has to have one for her to get one.

 

[Jacknch]

Found it.

Grants of honorary arms to American citizens

American citizens may be granted honorary arms. They must meet the same criteria for eligibility as subjects of the Crown, and in addition must record in the official registers of the College of Arms a pedigree showing their descent from a subject of the British Crown. This may be someone living in the north American colonies before the recognition of American independence in 1783, or a more recent migrant.

My Arms - Am I entitled to a coat of Arms?

So if I am reading the link correctly, Meghan's father would have to show decendency from someone who was British?

In this link - Granting of Arms - College of Arms - it states that Arms are granted under Crown authority, which could mean whatever his dependancy is, if the Crown (i.e. the Queen) authorises it then it can be granted in any event.

I guess all this does indeed depend on whether Arms need to be granted first to Meghan's father in order for it to be used as a base for the Arms Meghan would have.

 

[jacqui24]

So if I am reading the link correctly, Meghan's father would have to show decendency from someone who was British?

A tabloid did an article recently that traced their roots back to someone that used to work at Windsor castle as a maid. Apparently, the Markles have second cousins living in Britain today.

 

[Pranter]

If she were to create a coat of arms for herself I hope she puts something on there that is uniquely American too.


LaRae

 

[loonytick]

As a member of the BRF Meghan will have to have a coat of arms, which is quartered with her husband's . Everyone does. Queen Letizia of Spain and Crown Princess Mary of Denmark were foreigners who had coats of arms granted to them. Sophie Wessex has a cost of arms I believe and Sarah of York certainly did.

She might have American or Californian symbols on it, or the classic drama mask, something like that.

Wait-Letizia didn't come into her marriage as a foreigner, she was born and raised in Asturias; her parents were Spaniards; all of her grandparents but one spent their whole lives in Asturias or Madrid, and the one who didn't was born in the Philipines...to Spanish parents.

Her family didn't have a coat of arms because they were working/middle class, not because she wasn't Spanish.

 

[Somebody]

Wait-Letizia didn't come into her marriage as a foreigner, she was born and raised in Asturias; her parents were Spaniards; all of her grandparents but one spent their whole lives in Asturias or Madrid, and the one who didn't was born in the Philipines...to Spanish parents.

Her family didn't have a coat of arms because they were working/middle class, not because she wasn't Spanish.

I guess that Curryong was thinking about Queen Máxima and she indeed has her own coat of arms, with the inescutcheon representing her family background (if I remember correctly this was created for Máxima but also used by/awarded to her father; see this previous post).

Another foreign queen was Queen Silvia of Sweden; looks like also in her case it is the inescutcheon that represents her background.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, Somebody, I was thinking of Queen Maxima and stupidly wrote Letizia, one of the penalties of posting things in the very early morning I guess!

However, to get back to British royalty. The Duchess of Gloucester is of course Danish, and on both sides of the family I would guess. Her father was a lawyer and I don't think he had his own coat of arms previous to her marriage. Birgette had rather a complex family history as I recall and used her mother's maiden name of Van Deurs before she married.

However, even if her maternal grandfather had a coat of arms, I doubt that she would have been able to use that, and in fact I have read today, from Wikii admittedly, that the Duchess has her coat of arms from her father quartered, as is usual, with her husband's.

Where did Mr Henrikson, Birgette's father, get his Arms from, I wonder. From the Danish College of Arms or was it granted by the College of Arms in London? In the case of the latter, did he have to prove descent from a subject of the Crown (of GB) and what would have happened if he couldn't? I guess the Coat of Arms was granted anyway.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Royal Monogram of Queen Letizia of Spain.

The Royal Monogram of Queen Sofía of Spain.

 

[cdm]

Will this be Harry and Meghan’s monogram or is it just designed for the wedding memorabilia?

https://instagram.com/p/BgqikKmhi3Y/

 

[An Ard Ri]

And also its from the Buckingham Palace shop so it must be an official one?

 

[Pranter]

I read that Harry and Meghan picked and approved the designs for the memorabilia so I'd say good chance it's their monogram.


LaRae

 

[Diamondgal]

Cypher query

Hello there! Another new member here wondering if any of you kind people could help to identify the cypher on a piece of Jewellery we have?

It’s probably late Victorian period.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Pranter]

Looks like a C B and an A


LaRae

 

[AdmirerUS]

The Sussex Monogram. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/...00000578-5995069-image-m-29_1532626113253.jpg

Not what I expected, but what I should have expected. Very tidy. ?

 

[Curbside]

The Sussex Monogram. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/...00000578-5995069-image-m-29_1532626113253.jpg

Not what I expected, but what I should have expected. Very tidy. ?

What do they use those for?

 

[Curryong]

Doesn't it go on official correspondence of the couple, such as personal invitations they would send out, joint Christmas cards and suchlike?

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Royal Monogram of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge.

Royal Monogram of HRH Princess Michael of Kent.

 

[Osipi]

The Sussex Monogram. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/...00000578-5995069-image-m-29_1532626113253.jpg

Not what I expected, but what I should have expected. Very tidy. ?

Harry and Meghan's joint monogram couldn't be more perfect than it is. I'm reminded of those pictures where you look at it and can see two totally different images that create an optical illusion such as this one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...MKHdSEAawQ9QEwAHoECAUQBA#imgrc=LYLL1FeQq1gbnM:

Looking at Harry and Meghan's, you see a perfect blending of the H and the M where they could stand alone as an initial for either one and also enhances how perfectly blended these two people are in marriage.

Perfect, just perfect.

 

[Pranter]

I like their joined Monogram.


LaRae

 

[Fros]

I agree usually joint monograms look like 2 letters thrown on top of each other but this looks well designed.

So of their wedding merchandise had very horrible joint monograms which looked horrendous (one looked like a spider) so this is a very pleasant surprise.

I've seen some people complain saying it only looks like a fancy M but if you focus you can see both letters clearly.

 

[CWresearcher]

Mysterious Cypher on 18th-Century Needlework

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I have been researching a bit of eighteenth-century embroidery, trying to figure out what country it comes from. I noticed this cypher in the middle of it but can't identify it. Does anyone know who this cypher would have belonged to? It looks like an "R" and maybe a "E" or "B," but I'm not sure. Thanks for your help!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

King Willem-Alexander uses the same W as his predecessors Willem/Wilhelmina.

In 2014 the King handed over a new standard for the Koninklijke Marechaussee (the Dutch equivalent of the Gendarmerie). In the W we can see that a sort of difference has been made:

The original W:

The new W (one can see a horizontal element in the W to visualise an A). Also in the golden "piedestal" for the lion on top, this W with a small horizontal bar is visible to make a WA: see: https://www.defensie.nl/binaries/large/content/gallery/defensie/content-afbeeldingen/onderwerpen/vaandels-en-standaarden/standaard_kmar.jpg (Click on the picture once more to blow it up).

Because the Koninklijke Marechaussee was historically a mounted force, the standard is smaller than the usual regimental standard used by troops on foot. Picture.

 

[vicera1860]

Monogram Id Help? Possibly an Earl

I have acquired a Cauldon Pottery plate with a monogram and a Coronet of an Earl I believe. I would like help in identifying the who this plate was made for and its history. The monogram is LCS?, with the S over the LC, the
coronet has 5 pearls, but they are no on rays.
Any information or direction to look would be greatly appreciated. Picture of Monogram can be provided.

 

[Lilleprins]

Monogram identification needed

Hello everyone,


I am looking for someone who can help me to identify the monogram on a pair of golden (14K) cufflinks that I have inheritated from a distant cousin. They have a ducal/royal German crown und the letters "J" (twice, mirrored) and "G" as well as a Roman 2 ("II") at the bottom. I went through the differnt German princely states at the end of the 19th century and check their rulers, but the initials never matched the G and J.



It would be great if someone out there could help me.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Hello everyone,


I am looking for someone who can help me to identify the monogram on a pair of golden (14K) cufflinks that I have inheritated from a distant cousin. They have a ducal/royal German crown und the letters "J" (twice, mirrored) and "G" as well as a Roman 2 ("II") at the bottom. I went through the differnt German princely states at the end of the 19th century and check their rulers, but the initials never matched the G and J.



It would be great if someone out there could help me.

It is indeed a Herzogskrone. The combination JG looks like Johann Georg or something. As cufflinks are 18th C or later, it possibly was Johann Georg Herzog von Sachsen (1869-1938).

But the roman cypher possibly refers to a regnal number. Then we have a Johann Georg II Kurfürst von Sachsen, Herzog von Sachsen (1613-1680) but in that era there were no cufflinks.

A possibility: these were no cufflinks but insignia worn by courtiers (alike worn today at some Courts) and re-made in cufflinks?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is indeed a Herzogskrone. The combination JG looks like Johann Georg or something. As cufflinks are 18th C or later, it possibly was Johann Georg Herzog von Sachsen (1869-1938).

But the roman cypher possibly refers to a regnal number. Then we have a Johann Georg II Kurfürst von Sachsen, Herzog von Sachsen (1613-1680) but in that era there were no cufflinks.

A possibility: these were no cufflinks but insignia worn by courtiers (alike worn today at some Courts) and re-made in cufflinks?

See the insignia for Dutch courtiers (there these are called chiffres): http://i6.tinypic.com/833o8zm.jpg

You will see why I think these cufflinks were made from old chiffres.

 

[SilverandEphemera]

Monogram on silver beaker

Hello there,

I have recently joined these forums and was hoping somebody could offer some assistance.

Attached is a monogram on a silver beaker I recently purchased. It is English with a London hallmark for 1933.

Is the engraving indeed a personal monogram? I am unable to decipher the ornate lettering and I cannot identify the crown. I assume the foliage and wheat are also if some significance.

Many thanks and best wishes

 

[Curryong]

It's nothing I recognise, I'm afraid. I think you probably need an expert in the area. Maybe the assay office where the silver hallmarks were registered might be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck!