Questions About Titles

[Nathalian]

Yes, I understood...but, he has almost the same power as the Queen....???? I think of Prince Phillip...I now that he hasn´t the same power as the Queen...but, he has a lot right?? Do you have any idea of Princes consorts who became more popular that the Queen it self?

[lashinka2002]

Prince William of Denmark (I think) married Queen Mary II of England in the late 1600's and he became King. She even died before him and he still ruled for several years before dying himself. I'm not sure exactly why but if anyone can fil me in that ould be great. Queen Mary was the daughter of King James and sister to Queen Anne.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by lashinka2002

Prince William of Denmark (I think) married Queen Mary II of England in the late 1600's and he became King. She even died before him and he still ruled for several years before dying himself. I'm not sure exactly why but if anyone can fil me in that ould be great. Queen Mary was the daughter of King James and sister to Queen Anne.

William of Orange and Mary II ruled jointly.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by florawindsor

i think Prince Philip did give up his Greece Prince title ,cos when he bacame a british citizen, he was Lieut. Mountbatten. also, when u abandon your nationality, isn't it only natural you give up all the titles you have in that country?
afterall there was no monarchy in greece now, so it's of no importance whether he gave it up or not,imho

THe whole prince Philip saga smacks of British snobery. The British, or more correctly the English, believe that the Windsors are superior to all other royal families.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Iain

THe whole prince Philip saga smacks of British snobery. The British, or more correctly the English, believe that the Windsors are superior to all other royal families.

Depends on what you mean by "superior". I am sure the Danish, for example, think their Royal Family is "superior" to any others becuase it is theirs. Ditto for Spain, The Netherlands, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Thailand, Brunei, Tonga etc etc. One would expect that the people of a Monarchy would have greater loyalty to their own dynasty than another country's.

In terms of international recognition and awareness there is no argument that the Windsors are the most well known. If the English thought the Windsors were "inferior" to other Royal Families we would have something to worry about, just as (for example) the Nassaus would if the people of Luxembourg thought their Grand Ducal Family was "inferior". It's about loyalty and pride in one's own reigning House. Surely that is natural?
.

[Marengo]

Well, in other european countries one would not be ashamed when the fiance is a prince of Greece and Denmark, on the contrary I think. The spanish never asked Queen Sophie to change her name in Miss Sophie von Sleswich-Holstein, as the english did of Prince Phillip for example, english snobbery at its worst indeed! I believe in those years Greece was even an ally against communism!

[Von Schlesian]

Greece was still a Kingdom in 1947 when HRH The Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh disclaimed his titles of Prince of Greece and Denmark. These actions, (and those which preceaded them in 1917 with the changing of the Germanic House names), aren't quite marks of British/English snobbery. They were decisions made on the advice of the elected government members, and appointed civil servants who take care of diplomatic relations, protocol and ettiquette, and in doing so believe the decisions made, are in the best interests of the monarchs' subjects, and the monarchy itself.

[Lady Marmalade]

and by Lord Louis Mountbatten himself, whom I suspect never got over the loss if the title 'prince' before his first name......

[Sean.~]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Well, in other european countries one would not be ashamed when the fiance is a prince of Greece and Denmark, on the contrary I think. The spanish never asked Queen Sophie to change her name in Miss Sophie von Sleswich-Holstein, as the english did of Prince Phillip for example, english snobbery at its worst indeed! I believe in those years Greece was even an ally against communism!

It wasn't quite that simple. As Von Schlesian pointed out, this was a political decision made for what was believed to be the best interest of the monarchy. After all, it was the immediate post-war period, and a foreigner with a foreign title and close German relations whether marrying the heiress presumptive may not have gone down so well (plus the GRF was known -- whether rightly or wrongly -- to have German sympathies since the time of Constantine I) . Thus attempts were made to try and mitigate any possible damage by making Philip a British subject prior to the marriage. As it turns out, this wasn't wholly necessary because he was already a British subject as descendant of the Electress Sophia as per the Act of Settlement.

Additionally (and a little off-topic), it can and has been argued that hís renunciation of his Greek title wasn't necessary valid in that country.

[Sean.~]

Originally Posted by Nathalian

Yes, I understood...but, he has almost the same power as the Queen....???? I think of Prince Phillip...I now that he hasn´t the same power as the Queen...but, he has a lot right?? Do you have any idea of Princes consorts who became more popular that the Queen it self?

IIRC, Prince Claus was voted most popular member of the DRF a few years prior to his death.

[Sean.~]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

and by Lord Louis Mountbatten himself, whom I suspect never got over the loss if the title 'prince' before his first name......

No, he never did & lamented about it in his later years.

[Lady Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

No, he never did & lamented about it in his later years.

I know..I could only wonder what it must have been like to have your princely title taken away and reduced to a peerage under the British system. If that had not happened, Patricia and Pamela would have been their TSH Princesses of Battenberg, as would have the rest of the direct male line descendents and their children.

I do enjoy the tidbit of his bragging to his cousin the Prince of Coburg, or the Prince of Hanover, can't remember which, that "the blood of Battenberg has risen from the banks of the Rhine and is now head of the most important throne in Europe", after QEII ascended the throne. Apparently Queen Mary was told of this and went straight to Churchill to remind him the name is Windsor and it should stay Windsor.

But, later on he did have his day when the Queen changed the name to Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendents. I believe Anne signed her first marriage registry using this name.

If I am not correct by this, please let me know.
.

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

I believe Anne signed her first marriage registry using this name.

If I am not correct by this, please let me know.

She signed simply "Anne". However the registry filled in with the required fields as to names, occupation, etc named her as Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.

[Lady Marmalade]

Originally Posted by selrahc4

She signed simply "Anne". However the registry filled in with the required fields as to names, occupation, etc named her as Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.

Thank you, that is what I was referring to in my post. When she filled out the necessary lines, she used both last names.

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

Thank you, that is what I was referring to in my post. When she filled out the necessary lines, she used both last names.

She didn't fill out the lines, they were pre-filled, probably by the registrar. All the bride and groom and their witnesses had to do was sign their names below.

[Sean.~]

I know..I could only wonder what it must have been like to have your princely title taken away and reduced to a peerage under the British system.

The Princely title wasn't worth anything after Germany became a Republic. As it was, his title was that of a cadet member of a cadet morgantic branch of the House of Hesse, which itself was a junior state in the German Empire. Thus the argument can be made that a British aristocratic style (and later title, as he didn't become a member of the peerage until later) was much more noteworthy. After WWI the Battenberg titles, if used, would only be ones of pretension.

If that had not happened, Patricia and Pamela would have been their TSH Princesses of Battenberg, as would have the rest of the direct male line descendents and their children.

I do enjoy the tidbit of his bragging to his cousin the Prince of Coburg, or the Prince of Hanover, can't remember which, that "the blood of Battenberg has risen from the banks of the Rhine and is now head of the most important throne in Europe", after QEII ascended the throne.

He was full of himself, and it was that kind of commentary that earned him the dislike of QM.

Apparently Queen Mary was told of this and went straight to Churchill to remind him the name is Windsor and it should stay Windsor.

But, later on he did have his day when the Queen changed the name to Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendents. She made the comment that if Philip had any last name it was Glucksburg, and not Battenberg (or something along those lines).
.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

ref Lord Louis Mountbatten
I do enjoy the tidbit of his bragging to his cousin the Prince of Coburg, or the Prince of Hanover, can't remember which, that "the blood of Battenberg has risen from the banks of the Rhine and is now head of the most important throne in Europe", after QEII ascended the throne. Apparently Queen Mary was told of this and went straight to Churchill to remind him the name is Windsor and it should stay Windsor. If I am not correct by this, please let me know..

It was Prince Ernst August of Hanover who heard about Mountbatten's boast and informed Queen Mary.
.

[Lady Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

The Princely title wasn't worth anything after Germany became a Republic. As it was, his title was that of a cadet member of a cadet morgantic branch of the House of Hesse, which itself was a junior state in the German Empire. Thus the argument can be made that a British aristocratic style (and later title, as he didn't become a member of the peerage until later) was much more noteworthy. After WWI the Battenberg titles, if used, would only be ones of pretension.


If that had not happened, Patricia and Pamela would have been their TSH Princesses of Battenberg, as would have the rest of the direct male line descendents and their children. He was full of himself, and it was that kind of commentary that earned him the dislike of QM. But, later on he did have his day when the Queen changed the name to Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendents. She made the comment that if Philip had any last name it was Glucksburg, and not Battenberg (or something along those lines).
.

I don't think anyone would have cared had they been allowed to still use the Battenberg titles. It is not like the world was going to spin off it's axis...

That is really not the case regardless. There are many families whose duchies, or kingdoms have disappeared within Germany over the past 120 years and they still use their titles, and rightfully so. Who cares if the German government today recognizes or does not recognize their titles? It's not like such a big deal in the sense of someone trying to stop them from using their titles.

Any title with deference to highness in it, be it royal, serene, imperial, etc... is what separates succinctly the line between being royal vs. simply being aristocratic in plain terms.

To go from an HSH, which of course is on low pecking order of the royal highness list anway, to a mere peerage in Great Britain was a stinging rebuke. And yes, I do know what happened as to why the titles changed and so forth.