General Questions About Royalty and Monarchies

[Duke-of-Earl]

Danish Passport

Anyone have an opinion?

 

[KittyAtlanta]

The Queen didn't have to have a passport in the past, but I read somewhere around the first of the year that the law had changed and now she also has one= is required to have one. Anyone else hear that?

Check this out.

The Monarchy Today > Queen and public > Royal visits > Queen and passport

 

[Muhler]

I'd guess that would be unlikely.

If you are prince to Denmark, you are acknowledged to be in the line of succession and you will get a diplomatic passport. - No BRF members have that title.

If you have the title of prince of Denmark, you belong to the extended family of the DRF but you are not in the line of succession. And then you may get a diplomatic passport, depending on the political circumstances. No BRF members, perhaps with the exception of Prince Phillip (?) has that title.

As I see it the Duke of Cambridge would be considered a foreign ex-royal in the eyes of the Danish Foreign Ministry.
It would depend on the whether the BRF was removed legally or by some sort of force, a revolution, invasion or a coup. - In that case the BRF may still be viewed as the legal heads of state of Britain and should they seek asylum in DK, I can easily imagine they would get a diplomatic status, perhaps even a passport.
However, should the BRF be abolished legally then they are ordinary foreign citizens and why should DK (or any other country) offer a diplomatic passport to a foreign (and probably still British) citizen who may or may not settle in DK?

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Thank you Muhler

 

[Iluvbertie]

I apologise in advance if this is the wrong thread. I have a question, I've read somewhere that Denmark, upon request offers diplomatic passports to agnatic (male-line) decendents of King Christian IX of Denmark

Lets just pretend the BRF is abolished, would The Duke of Cambridge as a member of the Royal House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg and an agnatic decendent of Christian IX of Denmark be eligable for a diplomatic passport? What do people think of the Duke of Cambridge's chances of being offered a diplomatic passport?
Queen Margrethe II agnatic desendents:

Christian IX > Frederick VIII > Christian X > Frederick IX > Margrethe II

The Duke of Cambridge's agnatic desendents

Christian IX > Prince Andrew >Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark > The Prince of Wales >The Duke of Cambridge

Can I be a bit pedantic?

As this point in time, as far as we know, William has no descendents as he isn't yet a father.

The people listed are all his ancestors.

I can see the Danes givng the BRF passports based on their dual line descent from Christian IX (both The Queen and Philip are separately descendents of Christian.

Christian - Alexandra - George V - George V - Elizabeth - Charles - William (although in her lifetime Alexandra didn't have a claim to the Danish throne as females couldn't inherit - that changed in 1953).

Christian - William (George I of the Hellenes) - Andrew - Philip - Charles - William.

A lot would also come down to how official was Philip renounciation of his Greek and Danish titles. There is no real documentation or legislation accepting that renounciation.

My mother was working in the British High Commission in 1947, when the engagement was announced and still there in 1952 when The Queen ascended the throne and the information they were told from BP at both times was that Philip was still in the line of succession to both the Greek and Danish thrones and had him listed as a Prince of Greece and Denmark on some documents they used during the 1954 tour of Australia (internal stuff that was issued to staff - my mother still had friends at the High Commission at the time who gave her a copy knowing her interest in the BRF).

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Thanks for correcting my post, regarding ancestors and descendents

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

My grandmother always maintained that there is no written record of Philip renouncing his Greek and Danish claims to the throne, and that Philip, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, and also there appears to be no record that the government of Greece accepted any verbal renunciation, if indeed there was one.
Whether this is true or not I have no idea.

 

[Queen Shirley]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

Erm, you wouldn't? You would only know if they chose to tell you.

 

[Lee-Z]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

You wouldn't know, but I don't think it's a crime if you call someone Sir and it turns out to be a Lord or something

 

[An Ard Ri]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

For starters I doubt you'd meet any of them walking down the street

This link may help you

Forms of address in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Artemisia]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

You wouldn't, not unless they were wearing badges designating their styles and/or titles.
On the other hand, why would you need to know the styles or titles of complete strangers you aren't even planning to talk to?

 

[Meraude]

you recieve titles through your father, not through your mother.

This is not entirely true, it depends on what country a princess is from, as the children of princess Margriet of the Netherlands are titled while her husband is Mr. Pieter van Vollenhoven. Men who have married future queens have got their wife's title (Claus of the Netherlands, Henrik of Denmark and Daniel of Sweden) and there will most likely be a number of men who gets their wife's title when the princess heirs of today's crown prince/ss start getting married.

 

[AnnEliza]

I have a question: Let say I'm British (which I am not). I'm walking down the street passing lots of people. How would I know if someone is "Royal" like Lord, Count, Prince, or Princess (I understand there are more then just William and Harry). How would I know to say: My Lord, Your Grace, or just say Sir.?

I would think it would only come up if there were introductions made. You don't know what to call anyone until they're introduced to you, or introduce themselves.

 

[yvr girl]

I'm a newb myself and there is one thing I would like to have clarified since I've never got anyone to answer it before.

Here's the question - thos baldrics or sashes or whatever you wish to call them, is there a reason that some people wear them from left to right and others wear them from right to left? I've noticed this on many pictures and no one's been able to answer the question. Hopefully someone can do so here.

Thanks and I'm enjoying the forums and the photos.

Sashes belong to orders. Each order has particular rules as to how the sashes are to be worn. It is custom.

 

[yvr girl]

This is not entirely true, it depends on what country a princess is from, as the children of princess Margriet of the Netherlands are titled while her husband is Mr. Pieter van Vollenhoven. Men who have married future queens have got their wife's title (Claus of the Netherlands, Henrik of Denmark and Daniel of Sweden) and there will most likely be a number of men who gets their wife's title when the princess heirs of today's crown prince/ss start getting married.

These men did not receive title by the act of getting married. They were given these titles because the were getting married. Kate Middleton became the Duchess of Cambridge the moment she was married whereas Daniel Westling was created a Prince of Sweden by the King of Sweden on the day of his marriage.

 

[Meraude]

These men did not receive title by the act of getting married. They were given these titles because the were getting married. Kate Middleton became the Duchess of Cambridge the moment she was married whereas Daniel Westling was created a Prince of Sweden by the King of Sweden on the day of his marriage.

Whether they got the title by the act of getting married or were given the title because they were getting married, it's the fact that the title came to them because they married a man or a woman with a title, as a grant from their father/mother-in-law. Their titles are not given them because they have done something great for which a monarch wants to honor them, for example Jean Baptiste Bernadotte got the title Prince of Ponte Corvo as an award for his services at Austerlitz, and he was later elected as crown prince of Sweden.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I'm a Canadian monarchist. I would curtsy if I met a member of the Royal Family, but the British Royal Family (i.e. Canada's Royal Family) have made it clear that it's a matter of choice. It's not "required." As I see it, the curtsy is a recognition of the person's position and doesn't have to do with a person's feelings about the royal in question. We have the monarchy because the modern nation was settled by people from Britain and France, both of which countries had monarchies. Unlike the United States, we didn't have a revolution; and so there was no need to jettison the Head of State (George III in your case). When Canada did become independent of Britain, the monarch wasn't seen as a foreign tyrant.

-do you curtsy when you see a royal? i dont think i can stomach curtseying to somebody just because they were born royal. in fact, the royals should maybe acknowledge the people for paying them to be their kings and queens.
.

 

[sarahedwards2]

Then why did Andrew, Edward and William only get their titles on their wedding days?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Then why did Andrew, Edward and William only get their titles on their wedding days?

Because there was no need for them to have one prior to marriage.

 

[sarahedwards2]

Because there was no need for them to have one prior to marriage.

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

 

[Lumutqueen]

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

Nope. Prior to his marriage he was HRH The Prince Andrew, he was created Duke of York when he married Sarah.

 

[Osipi]

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

HM also created Andrew the Duke of York on his wedding day. It seems to be a tradition in the British royal family. With this practice also, the bride becomes titled at the time of marriage. Hence why we have The Duchess of Cambridge rather than Princess William. The same applied to Sarah and Sophie on their wedding days.

 

[Jacknch]

hi to all, i am new to this forum and i have a bunch of questions for people under the monarchial system. i think im a monarchist but i live in america so i haven't experienced to be under a system like that. i may sound ignorant but its not wrong to ask. here are my questions:
-do you curtsy when you see a royal? i dont think i can stomach curtseying to somebody just because they were born royal. in fact, the royals should maybe acknowledge the people for paying them to be their kings and queens.
-if somebody has a title like lord or lady, count/countess, etc., do they use it in real life? do they write their name as Lord X blah, blah, blah in signing credit cards and writing checks?
-do theses nobles with title get preferential treatment at work or at school? i would hate it if your boss or your principal shows preferential treatment towards a kid with a "Lord" attached to his name or to a kid with a really well known last name.
-do these noblemen actually feel entitled and look down on commoners? i am not talkin about a royal family. of course some of them could be snobs because they are prince or princesses, etc. but im talking about, for a lack of term, your "minor" noblemen ( your lords, barons, and a really old last name).
-do you guys "respect" your monarchs? if yes what makes you respect them? sure, well all need to respect each other but you know what im talking about.
- why do you have a monarchy? is it because the ancestors of these ruling dynasties established your country and made it the way it is right now through war and conquest. i think that is the reason why europe has monarchy.

thanks for viewing or answering my questions. it is greatly appreciated.

I will answer your excellent questions from my own perspective:

In terms of bowing to a royal, if I happen to bump into one unexpectedly, then I would not bow, as the situation would be informal. If I met a royal in formal circumstances where tradition and/or convention requires a bow in honour of the office held by the royal, then I would bow, albeit more a nod of the head than a full-blown right-angked bow. It is not an unusual situation in everyday life to show some form of resepct to someone. For instance, we all generally shake hands with someone we are being introduced to as it is polite and shows respect to them. It is no different from holding a door open for someone or giving up your seat to an elderly person on the bus, it's just basic manners. If I were to meet the US President, I believe I would very likely bow to him too because the office he holds deserves respect and regard in a polite and meaningful manner.

Titled persons such as Lady Dorothy Brabinghton-Smythe, would sign her name much the same as anyone well. A titled person with a place attached to their title will sign as follows:
The current Duke of Devonshire's name is Peregrine Cavendish and his nick-name is Stoker. He varioulsy signs his name as either "Stoker Devonshire" or just "Devonshire". His wife signs her name as "Amanda Devonshire".

My partner works in a large company in London and worked for a time with a peer of the realm. The peer in question was treated no differently than anyone else and acted no differently from anyone else.

Given that a vast amount of untitled people believe it is quite justified to look down upon those with titles, I feel the two things probably cancel eachother out.

Yes, I respect my monarch very highly indeed on the basis that her role is important for the country and she never sought the high office that she holds. I respect very few politicians because they have sought high-office for their own gain (personal and political).

 

[Andolini]

I am an American. If I met a Royal, I would curtsey. It is a sign of respect and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

I agree completely.

 

[Muhler]

To me the answer is simple: I salute the rank, not the person.
So any royal will be greeted in a proper respectful manner by me.

The royals of my own country, because I believe in the monarchy and because they no matter what my opinion might be are the highest official representatives of my country.
That I also happen to respect and even like most of them is just a bonus.

All other royals with be greeted with respect simply because they are official representatives of their countries and I would be a poor representative of my country I didn't show proper respect.

 

[Meraude]

To me the answer is simple: I salute the rank, not the person.
So any royal will be greeted in a proper respectful manner by me.

I agree, it's the rank, not the person I would salute. Monarchs, as well as other heads of state, would get a bow, but I would never curtsey, if I ever was to greet a head of state. As for minor royals, they would get the same kind of greeting as any other person I meet for the first time.

 

[Andolini]

For starters I doubt you'd meet any of them walking down the street

This link may help you

Forms of address in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the wiki link!!! Off topic - I love Queen Sofia, especially when she is with her grandchildren, she is so very much a natural grandma!!! Just so genuinely happy and loving with them, so I appreciate your avatar!!

 

[Queen Shirley]

How long will they keep calling her Duchess Catherine Middleton? She is married now. Shouldn't she be called Duchess Catherine Windsor, or Duchess Catherine of Cambridge or just Duchess Catherine? Why do they keep using Middleton? We all know her now. Is this some royal rule?

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Who is "they", Queen Shirley? The media is all over the place in what to call her.

There are a couple of ways of properly referring to her; Duchess Catherine Middleton isn't one of them.