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  #141  
Old 10-02-2005, 03:51 PM
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Sean:

I love your post. You are quite knowledgable, and when you give info and/or correct, you always do it in a mannerly way. You are very much a gentleman.
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  #142  
Old 10-02-2005, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelleq
Sean:

I love your post. You are quite knowledgable, and when you give info and/or correct, you always do it in a mannerly way. You are very much a gentleman.
Oh! Thank you. I appreciate that.
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  #143  
Old 10-02-2005, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
I do not think many citizens and the government would care if the Princes of Hanover used their titles, which they do, unless they were being nuisances to the government in some way
Sorry I can't help chuckling at that example considering what a nuisance and a embarrassment the senior Prince of Hanover is to, not only the German government, but the whole Germany...
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  #144  
Old 10-02-2005, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Sorry I can't help chuckling at that example considering what a nuisance and a embarrassment the senior Prince of Hanover is to, not only the German government, but the whole Germany...
I know....I was thinking about that when I was typing it up.. :)
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  #145  
Old 10-02-2005, 07:02 PM
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I would like to believe that one day he will learn how to behave, but deep down, I don't believe so.
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  #146  
Old 10-02-2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Sorry I can't help chuckling at that example considering what a nuisance and a embarrassment the senior Prince of Hanover is to, not only the German government, but the whole Germany...
So true!! Thank you for mentioning him. I had forgotten all about him and his antics! ;-)
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  #147  
Old 10-02-2005, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean.~
see post below
I do understand titles and the history as to why they renounced and had to change their titles to sound more English. Please do not insult me on here like that. You implied it by the way your sentences are typed.

I may not agree with your postings, but I try not to respond in a superior manner with the attitude you are wrong and I am right. If I have, I apologize, as that is not the meaning I intend my posts to be viewed as.

Not everything about royalty is black and white, packed away in neat little packages. :)

As we have seen in many countries, Germany, Japan, Russia, Greece etc., the recognition of titles and such may not be by their governments, but the families are still passing them down generation to generation and I think that is wonderful to ensure and instill the names and titles going down the line. No one is being hurt in the process.

I was never erroneous in my postings on here in any sense. None of us, I assume are real royals or aristocrats on here. :)

I know I am not.

Just because the British peerage system is the one most well known, does not make the socially superior one.

Again, these families can call themselves whatever they wish too, legal and official or not.

If they want to use Princess of Hanover or Prussia or whatever rather than adding them as a last name such as Von Hapsburg, I dot believe anyone will protest.

Whether the country is now a republic or monarchy or communist, or whatever does not matter in the sense if the families wish their titles to pass generation to generation, they probably do not care if they are recognized officially and legally by the governments in the former countries they once ruled.

I am talking about today's world, not the one of 1914-1917.

I know what was going on at the time and understand why these changes happened. That is not in question here.

My whole point is to these families. They can use whatever titles they want regardless if governments recognized them today or not.

I hardly think any government in Europe will care too much given there are so many real problems to deal with in today's world. :)
.
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  #148  
Old 10-03-2005, 02:48 AM
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We should be wary of reading implications into the style of writing of members. Most often the "implication" is not intended. Everyone has their own views on the "legitimacy" or legality of the present-day use of German titles and styles. Formally, they have been abolished; in the real world they are still used. For example we refer to Princess Bendikte's husband as HSH Richard, 6th Fürst zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, and not Mr Richard S-W-B.

Everyone has something to contribute and information to share; that is why we participate in these Forums. We approach subjects from different angles and sometimes we get things wrong and someone corrects us. This is par for the course and should be accepted with good grace. Other things are open to interpretation or have grey areas.

In relation to the Germanic Houses the whole subject of styles, titles and precedence is a very complex area, and most of it goes back to the days of the Holy Roman Empire. Plenty of others have struggled to understand the arcane detail and anomalies, but those of us who find it fascinating (or just interesting) will continue to ask questions and share knowledge and viewpoints. Simply because we enjoy it, and this is what we have in common.

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  #149  
Old 10-03-2005, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Please do not insult me on here like that. You implied it by the way your sentences are typed.
Oh C'Mon! Sean's a great lad (would never dream of insulting a Lady)!
Quote:
Not everything about royalty is black and white, packed away in neat little packages. :)
Yep! Hence those great forums!
Quote:
None of us, I assume are real royals or aristocrats on here. :) I know I am not.
You are Lady Marmalade! Don't sell yourself short!
(But as a side point, I don't think beeing a royal or an aristocrat has anything to do with the subject.)
Quote:
Just because the British peerage system is the one most well known, does not make the socially superior one.
I don't think no one ever said that, but the fact is that the UK is one of the very few European countries to still have both a monarchy and an aristocracy (not the case in Japan or Norway for example).
Quote:
Again, these families can call themselves whatever they wish too, legal and official or not.
Well not. For example in France we have to lads calling themselves duc of Anjou. Ernstie of Hanover would love putting Duke of Cumberland (spl.) on his visit card, etc. I mean, if they are not a minimum of regulation, you end up with ridiculous (and blatantly illegal) situations.
Quote:
Whether the country is now a republic or monarchy or communist, or whatever does not matter in the sense if the families wish their titles to pass generation to generation, they probably do not care if they are recognized officially and legally by the governments in the former countries they once ruled.
Maybe, maybe not. There are still strong feelings against some royals (Iran, Greece, etc.). Not to mention the possible ridiculous (I love Pavlos, Crown Prince of a non existing throne ).
Quote:
I hardly think any government in Europe will care too much given there are so many real problems to deal with in today's world. :)
Well not to be picky (even through I know I am), but governments hardly only concentrate on 'real' problems (whatever you mean). Identity, names, use of titles are legal issues even in Republic.

PS: No offence intended! I know you know far more than I do and I appreciate your posts. :)
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  #150  
Old 10-03-2005, 05:00 AM
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I trust that everything posted in this thread is done in good humour and good spirit.

:) W
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  #151  
Old 10-03-2005, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Oh C'Mon! Sean's a great lad (would never dream of insulting a Lady)! Yep! Hence those great forums! You are Lady Marmalade! Don't sell yourself short!
(But as a side point, I don't think beeing a royal or an aristocrat has anything to do with the subject.) I don't think no one ever said that, but the fact is that the UK is one of the very few European countries to still have both a monarchy and an aristocracy (not the case in Japan or Norway for example). Well not. For example in France we have to lads calling themselves duc of Anjou. Ernstie of Hanover would love putting Duke of Cumberland (spl.) on his visit card, etc. I mean, if they are not a minimum of regulation, you end up with ridiculous (and blatantly illegal) situations.Maybe, maybe not. There are still strong feelings against some royals (Iran, Greece, etc.). Not to mention the possible ridiculous (I love Pavlos, Crown Prince of a non existing throne ). Well not to be picky (even through I know I am), but governments hardly only concentrate on 'real' problems (whatever you mean). Identity, names, use of titles are legal issues even in Republic.

PS: No offence intended! I know you know far more than I do and I appreciate your posts. :)
You are too sweet. I enjoyed your response back to me. See? It is good to see a thoughtful rebuttal. :)
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  #152  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:45 AM
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Keeping a title after the divorce

In the thread "Will Charles Ever Reign" we started talking about Diana's titles after her divorce. Apparently she wanted to hold onto the Princess of Wales title and therefore turned down a dukedom in her own right which she would have kept for the rest of her life.

At the time of the divorce I was a bit surprised. Putting myself in her shoes, if my husband had treated me as badly as she said he treated her, I would have wanted nothing to do with anything like a title that reminded me of him. Except of course for the children.

But Diana may not have had a choice. I think royals who divorce may have to keep the title of their former partner afterwards. The only other divorces I know of are Fergie and Andrew and Alexandra and Joachim. Fergie keeping the title made more sense to me because she and Andrew remained on pretty good terms. Alexandra kept the Princess title but that's not exactly like keeping a title that only Joachim had for himself.

Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?
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  #153  
Old 10-10-2005, 03:03 PM
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Well, when Joachim and Alexandra (of Denmark) divorced, she retained the title Princess of Denmark (but is now a HH instead of a HRH), and was granted the title of Countess.
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  #154  
Old 10-10-2005, 03:26 PM
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good answer question,ysbel

but i knew about Prince Charles and Princess Diana got split in 1992 for 4 years and HM Queen Elizabeth II plans to divorces for Prince Charles and Princess Diana in February 1996 and Diana agrees to divorces! unlikes her parents who also divorces when she was 6 years old and her dad won custody for care of children and her mother had affair with another man but Diana known as Diana,Princess of Wales HM Queen given her right styles to Diana of her divorces and she lost titles HRH in August 1996

and Prince Andrew and Sarah,Duchess of York been split same years of Prince Charles and Princess Diana's because more REASONS of taboilds on her topless nude with affairs with another man but HM Queen got shock on taboilds about it the Yorks been split for years till divorces in 1996 same Prince Charles and Princess Diana but Sarah lost title of HRH but Sarah known as Sarah,Duchess of York

i have no idea about Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra got divorces for more reasons! but both still good married and HM Queen give her lost titles and styles but im not sure!

Sara Boyce
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  #155  
Old 10-10-2005, 03:29 PM
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Thanks moosey60,

I know about Princess Alexandra, but Joachim didn't have a title particular to him. I was wondering if other royal wives kept a title that only they and their husbands shared. Like Prince of Wales or Duke of York.
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  #156  
Old 10-10-2005, 04:06 PM
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Frederik the seventh of Denmark was divorced twice, before marrying Louise Rasmussen aka. Countess Danner, to the left hand. (Incidentally, Countess Danner was the last Danish commoner to marry into the royal house, without the husband having to forfeit his royal status)

His first wife, Princess Wilhelmine/Vilhelmine of Denmark, daughter of Frederik VI - well, she'd probably just use her old title Princess of Denmark, wouldn't she? At least until she remarried.

But does anybody know what his second wife: Princess Caroline Charlotte Mariane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, did after the divorce?
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  #157  
Old 10-10-2005, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?
sometimes the divorced royal may not have a choice, esp. if they were born non-royal. When the Sultan of Brunei divorced his second wife in 2003 he took away all her royal titles.
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  #158  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
When the Sultan of Brunei divorced his second wife in 2003 he took away all her royal titles.
Harsh!!!:(
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  #159  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norwegianne
His first wife, Princess Wilhelmine/Vilhelmine of Denmark, daughter of Frederik VI - well, she'd probably just use her old title Princess of Denmark, wouldn't she? At least until she remarried.

But does anybody know what his second wife: Princess Caroline Charlotte Mariane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, did after the divorce?
I don't know about Mariane but Wilhelmine seems to have married the brother of Christian IX.

I was thinking that if the marriage ended badly like the Waleses did, it would be more natural for the woman not to want the title anymore...unless there were other compelling reasons to keep it.
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  #160  
Old 10-10-2005, 10:16 PM
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Yes, but didn't the Queen issue letters of patent that said in effect, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the HRH title is taken away?

One could reason that since Diana and Sarah were only HRHs due to their marriages, then that style would have ceased for them if they divorced anyway.

In the case of Sophie, if she divorced Edward, then more than likely she would at least be know as Sophie, Countess of Wessex....as Diana and Sarah at least kept their titles..
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