Non-British Styles and Titles


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
There are some royals or even nobles who have done this for a number of reasons because of abidcation or broke the house law etc.

For instease the Luxembourg ducal family no longer holds prince or princess of Bourbon-Parma.And the princess I use as a signature no longer uses her dutchess
title it caused confusion for some people who might of assumed she was related to the Savoy family of Italy which she is not.
 
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How come some royals and even nobles are more known by their sub title then their main title?
Okay other examples of royals or nobles from reigning houses and here's the list:
Reigning
U.K.
1.Prince Philp he is also Duke of Edinburg
2.Prince Charles he is also Prince of Wales
3.Prince Andrew he is also Duke of York

Beligum
4. Crown Prince Phillpe he is also Duke of Brabant (excuse my spelling if incorrect)

Netheralnds
5.Crown Prince Willem-Alexander he is also Prince of Orange
 
:previous:
All the men you listed are actually "officially" styled by their "subsidiary" titles that you listed. HRH The Prince Charles is officially HRH The Prince of Wales just as Prince Philippe is officially HRH The Duke of Brabant these men bear traditional styles and titles for heirs to their thrones. Andrew and Philip have been offically know as HRH The Duke of X since their creation as royal dukes.
 
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Actually Prince Philippe is always referred to as Prince Philippe not as Duke of Brabant on moarchie.be
 
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Prince Friso Orange-Nassau is legally titled as Count Orange-Nassau because he married without permission of parliament.
Okay so why on earth are Prince Pieter-Christian and Prince Floris not legally titled as counts they too married without
permission of parliament?
 
Since both Prince Pieter-Christian and Prince Floris didn't seek the Consent to their marriages, they both lost their places in the line of the succession to the Dutch Throne and ceased being members of the Dutch Royal House, same as Prince Johan-Friso (although they are still members of the Dutch Royal Family).

From this point on, however, Prince Friso's situation is completely different. By Royal Decree of 2004, he lost the hereditary title "Prince of Orange-Nassau" by marrying without the Act of Consent. Prince Pieter-Christian and Prince Floris never had the hereditary title to lose it.

Honouring the fact that Prince Johan-Friso was the Sovereign's son, he was granted the hereditary title 'Count of Orange-Nassau", so that his children were not 'commoners'. It was not a demotion; on the contrary, it was an effort to make sure his children are titled in some way.
That is why Prince Johan-Friso's daughters are titled as Luana, Countess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkvrouw van Amsberg and Countess Joanna Zaria of Orange-Nassau, Jonkvrouw van Amsberg. They are both styled/addressed to as "Highborn Lady". Their surname is Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg (again, as per Royal Decree of 2004). The titles are hereditary in male lineage.

Prince Johan-Friso is still allowed to used his title 'Prince of Orange-Nassau' as a personal and non-hereditary title, same as Prince Pieter-Christian and Prince Floris, whose title is non-hereditary as well.

The children of Prince Pieter-Christian and Prince Floris, on the other hand, are known Emma van Vollenhoven, Pieter van Vollenhoven (the children of Prince Pieter-Christian) and Magali van Vollenhoven (the daughter of Prince Floris), without any titles or styles.
 
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Actually Prince Philippe is always referred to as Prince Philippe not as Duke of Brabant on moarchie.be

It's just a website. His official styling is related to the constitution and his historical position.
 
This is more of an opinion question, but...

With the recent bestowing of titles on Princess Tessy and her sons, Prince Gabriel and Prince Noah, it was brought to my attention that, whilst Princess Tessy is a Princess of Luxembourg, her boys are simply Princes de Nassau, as their father is not the Grand Duke or Hereditary Grand Duke. Similarly, whenever the sons of Princess Astrid of Belgium marry and have children, while their spouses will more than likely be Princesses of Belgium, their children will most certainly only inhereit the titles of Austria (Archduke/duchess).

My question is: Were you to marry a prince, would you be comfortable having a higher title than your own children? Though I am not a parent, I don't think I would be okay with that. I actually think I would just rather have the same titles as they did, unless that posed a problem somehow.
 
Only the monarch can decide what title members of the family will recieve rather it be higher or lower.I am not too keen on outranking my children either but there is nothing I can do.Hopefully one day Grand Duke Henri will raise the rank of his two grandsons their still very young children.

When a princess who is not reigning marries a prince who is a member of a reigning family does she have the ability to hold both titles if she is head of her own dynastic house and her husband is just a member of his family's dynastic house?
 
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The Head of a House is the Head of a House, no matter who she marries. The closest example you will find is Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna. She married a Prince of Prussia and remained Grand Duchess of Russia and Head of the Imperial House. If she had married, for example, a Prince of Denmark it would be up to the Danish Court to determine her title. It may be that she would be known as a Princess of Denmark within Denmark and Grand Duchess outside. It would also depend on the role she was playing at the time.
The question is very hypothetical as female Heads of non-reigning Houses are extremely rare.
 
A princess who is head of own house marries an heir to the throne what title would she hold?
BTW is it even possible for two members of the same house by marriage to be heads of two different
houses? I know am asking a lot.
 
This is what happened with King Felipe II of Spain and Queen Mary I of England. But in this case, they never met and continued to be Sovereigns of their own countries.
Or this is what happened with Archduchess Maria Theresia of Austria, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia, and Franz, Grand Duke of Tuscany and later Holy Roman Emperor; in this case, she retained her own titles, and aquired the Imperial title of her husband. When Franz died, their firstborn son continued to be the heir of the (more important) titles of Maria Theresia, and the second son (Leopold) succeded his father as Grand Duke of Tuscany.
So, in the history we have several examples of marriages between reigning Sovereign.
Now, in some countries like Sweden this kind of marriages is not allowed in order to avoid personal unions between two states.
 
Posts relating to the Royal House of Bavaria have been moved to the Germany-Austria forum.
 
sorry mafan.... but

MAfan said:
King Felipe II of Spain and Queen Mary I of England. But in this case, they never met and continued to be Sovereigns of their own countries.

well not quite, the king did come to england for his wedding and for a short time lived with his wife the queen in england.
during which time the queen is said to fell pregnant, when in fact it was a phantom pregnancy. later still , six months after the departure of the king from england the queen annouced she was expecting another child which in truth turned out to be the beginnings of the illness which was to kill her some time later..... :flowers:!!!.

also as stated in the marriage treaty, on their marriage mary become queen consort of spain, whilst felipe became king of england and ireland...... they were joint rulers of england and ireland !!
 
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If Prince Christian gets a wife called Margrethe, will this Margrethe than be called Queen Margrethe III of Denmark? And how is this handled in other countries?
 
No, because she would not be a reigning Queen, she would be a Queen Consort.
 
Then she would be only styled The Queen Consort of Denmark, Queen Margrethe?
 
She would be Queen Margrethe of Denmark (without the numerals that show that the Queen is Queen Regnant, rather than Queen Consort).
It is the same in other countries as well: the mother of Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom was also Queen Elizabeth (during the reign of her husband, and Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother - during the Reign of her daughter), but she didn't have numerals after her name either.
 
Say a princess is styled a HRH and is head of her own dynastic house she is not reigning marries a prince who is also not reigning he is styled HR&HI and not head of his house so when they have children what style will their children recieve?
 
If a female HRH marries a male HI&RH their children would be HI&RH. Once again, the question of female Heads of non-reigning Houses is extremely hypothetical as female Heads are few and far between. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is the only notable example.

(Crown) Princess Margarita of Romania will in due course become the Head of the Royal House of Romania. She is married but has no children and will be succeeded by her sister Helen's son Nicholas. Nicholas Medforth-Mills, since renamed Nicolae de Romania, will become HRH Prince of Romania on his 25th birthday (next year) or on the death of King Michael, whichever comes first.

A couple of more general examples of "marrying up":

• The (now) HSH Hereditary Princess Caroline of Monaco became HRH The Princess of Hanover on her marriage to Prince Ernst August. If she succeeds Prince Albert as Sovereign Princess then Monaco will have a Royal House for the life of her reign. What style she would give the next Hereditary Prince is anyone's guess but it would probably be HSH Prince Andrea and Monaco would revert to a Princely House on his accession.

• When Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg married HRH Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma the Grand Ducal House was raised to royal rank in that all of their children were born Royal Highnesses rather than Grand Ducal Highnesses (the Hereditary Grand Duke would have been a Royal Highness in any case).

and a dynastic "what if?" that never eventuated...

• HRH Princess Astrid of Belgium married HI&RH Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este, now Head of the Ducal House of Modena. With the revamped Belgian succession law she jumped a place to be behind her brother Philippe and before her younger brother Laurent. If Philippe had remained unmarried (or childless, or left no surviving issue) she would likely have become the first Belgian Sovereign Queen. Her eldest son Amedeo, HI&RH Archduke of Austria-Este, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia and HRH Prince of Belgium, would in due course have inherited the Belgian crown. In effect (though not in name) a scion of the Habsburg Dynasty would have gained a Kingdom more than a century after the family had lost an Empire, and the Habsburgs would again rule over their ancestral lands that once formed part of the Duchy of Burgundy and later the Austrian Netherlands.
 
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<...>
and a dynastic "what if?" that never eventuated...

• HRH Princess Astrid of Belgium married HI&RH Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este, now Head of the Ducal House of Modena. With the revamped Belgian succession law she jumped a place to be behind her brother Philippe and before her younger brother Laurent. If Philippe had remained unmarried (or childless, or left no surviving issue) she would likely have become the first Belgian Sovereign Queen. Her eldest son Amedeo, HI&RH Archduke of Austria-Este, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia and HRH Prince of Belgium, would in due course have inherited the Belgian crown. In effect (though not in name) a scion of the Habsburg Dynasty would have gained a Kingdom more than a century after the family had lost an Empire, and the Habsburgs would again rule over their ancestral lands that once formed part of the Duchy of Burgundy and later the Austrian Netherlands.


If this scenario were to come true, wouldn't the Belgian Royal Family become Belgian Imperial Family, at least for the time of Astrid's Reign?
The Imperial style would presumably outrank the Royal one. Would she be known as 'Empress' Astrid and what style and title would her husband have? As far as I understand, their children would be HI&RH in any case.
 
I don't think...she would be the Reigning Queen of the Belgians, why to elevate her title to an imperial one?
I guess this is the same of Maria Theresia of Austria: she was Queen of Hungary, not Empress of Hungary, although she had married the Holy Roman Emperor...
 
If this scenario were to come true, wouldn't the Belgian Royal Family become Belgian Imperial Family, at least for the time of Astrid's Reign?
The Imperial style would presumably outrank the Royal one. Would she be known as 'Empress' Astrid and what style and title would her husband have? As far as I understand, their children would be HI&RH in any case.

Why would it change to Belgian Imperial and not Royal?
And why would Astrid become Empress and not just Queen?

I must admit, I would love a belgian monarchy ruled by Queen Astrid. :flowers:
 
Thank you for your responses, MAfan and lumutqueen. :flowers:
I agree it is unlikely Astrid would be an Empress (her husband would have to be an Emperor for that to happen), however I do believe that the Reigning Family of Belgium would be an Imperial, not Royal one, at least for the time of her (hypothetical) reign.

In my understanding, the situation would be similar to that of Princess Caroline of Monaco upon her (possible) accession to the Throne of Monaco, when the Princely Family of Monaco will become Royal Family of Monaco (for the duration of Caroline's Reign) because of Caroline's marriage to HRH The Prince of Hannover.
Warren has explained the situation with Princess Caroline in his post.

lumutqueen, I also love the idea of Queen Astrid: she would have been a wonderful Monarch, in my opinion.
 
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I still do not understand how a royal family becomes and imperial one? Or a princely family becomes a royal one?
:ermm:
 
I understand, Marsel; but the two cases are different:

Caroline was a Serene Highness, who has become a Royal Highness, and who will remain a Royal Highness because this status is superior then the one (Serene Highness) of the Prince of Monaco;

Astrid was a Royal Highness who has become a Imperial and Royal Highness, but if Queen she would be a Royal Majesty, a style superior then a Imperial and Royal Highness: whichever Majesty is superior then all the Highnesses.

And more, the imperial titles of Lorenz, and of Astrid since she is his wife, are only courtesy titles, not official titles. This is the same case, for example, of Archduke Carl Christian, whose is a courtesy title, and his wife Marie Astris, who has the courtesy title of Archduchess because she is his wife, but she is officially styled HRH Princess Marie Astrid of Luxembourg, not HI&RH Archduchess Marie Astrid of Austria.
 
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I understand your argument and I agree that the style of Royal Majesty is superior to Imperial Highness.
However, I am still doubtful about the question of the Royal House: to my understanding, it might have become an Imperial House upon Astrid's (hypothetical) accession because of her husband's titles (even if they are courtesy ones), even if for her Reign-only (and unless it was explicitly announced otherwise).

Thank you very much for answering my question, MAfan. :flowers: :flowers:
 
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How are Astrid and Lorenz styled in Belgian official documents?
I guess however that if Astrid became Queen, they would make everything to make belgians forget that they are Habsburgs and don't use the imperial style (coming from a foreign and no more existant empire), also in the case they had right to do so. Probably Lorenz would also have signed a renounciation to his austrian claim, at least to the Modena claim. But since Philippe has 4 children, all this is just of theoric interest.
And does Monaco recognise officially Caroline as a HRH? The state of Hannover don't exist anymore and Great Britain does not recognise Ernst August as Prince of GB, right?
 
Empress Astrid of Belgium... I like that idea :lol:

I'm guessing, in the unlikely case Princess Astrid would become Queen, her children would still bear the I & R styles, and the children of the boys would too (the girls don't pass on this style, do they?)

I thought that on the official Monace website, Caroline was referred to as HRH The Princess of Hannover. So they seem to recognize that style.
 
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