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  #121  
Old 07-16-2016, 03:30 PM
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One question:

An example of marriage between Prince Ioann of Russia and Princess Helen of Serbia.

Who would take precedence in Russian court?

All princes and princesses of Imperial blood were His/Her Highness,while in this example a wife of a Highness is Royal Highness.

Would she outrank her husband and all princes and princesses of imperial blood?
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  #122  
Old 07-16-2016, 04:34 PM
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I would suspect that in the Russian court she would have taken her precedence from her husband, not her father. She may have taken a higher precedence when in Serbia or when traveling to other countries without her husband.
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  #123  
Old 07-16-2016, 04:34 PM
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You must not look to the form of address (Your Highness, Your Excellency, Your Eminence, Your Honour, etc.). You must look to the position one has. A president and an ambassador have the same form of address (His Excellency) but a president always outranks an ambassador.

As female spouses take the title and corresponding rank of their husbands you need to know the consanguinity to the Sovereign (is the husband a son, a grandson, an uncle, a cousin to the Sovereign?). The closer the consanguinity, the higher in the pecking order. Etc. A royal can also have precedence because he holds a prestigious Order like Golden Fleece or the Garter. He can have anciennity, he can have a high rank (the Duke of Kent is Field Marshal of the British Army and outranks almost all at military events. It is a fine web, more than just HSH or HH, which are often wrong British interpretations of the German system.
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  #124  
Old 07-16-2016, 04:51 PM
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she would retain her title and precedence as a royal highness the same as grand duchess maria alexandrovna of russia retained and was a accordance with the precedence of imperial highness and royal highness she outranked all the princesses in the british court except the princess of wales
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  #125  
Old 07-16-2016, 05:17 PM
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Maria Alexandrovna was the wife of the second son of the Queen. That's why she outranked all the other princesses in the British court, except the Princess of Wales (the wife of the first son).

The British order of precedence for women is:
1. The Sovereign (regardless of gender)
2. The Queen (if not the sovereign)
3. The Dowager Queens
4. The wife of the sovereign's eldest son
5. The wives of the sovereign's younger sons (in order of the sons' birth)
6. The daughters of the sovereign (in order of birth)
7. The wives of the sovereign's grandsons (in the order of the grandson's precedences)
8. The granddaughters of the sovereign (in the order of primogeniture)
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  #126  
Old 07-16-2016, 05:41 PM
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Precisely. She did though retain her own rank, she was Her imperial and royal highness, but her rank as third lady behind Victoria and Alexandra was due to her husband.
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  #127  
Old 08-18-2016, 04:11 PM
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Monarchs are more powerful. Especially the British Monarch. The Queen holds the power passed on the her Ministers of the Crown. However the Armed Forces and the British people are loyal to her not the government of the day. In other countries, a President will not have the same affection from his people or the military. The Queen technically can declare war on her own, the US President cannot. Furthermore politicians come and go, a Monarch has continuous loyalty and affection by his/her people. The death of a British Monarch would cause more global grief than the death of a former US President I'm sure, although of course there would still be much grieving for a US President and rightly so.
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  #128  
Old 08-19-2016, 12:30 PM
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This is not exactly correct. Equality in leadership of countries is tough. Some are democracy, autocracy,oligarchy and so on. Additionally anyone knighted has a rank below HRH.
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  #129  
Old 08-19-2016, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHPrinceD.J.H.W.G View Post
Monarchs are more powerful. Especially the British Monarch. The Queen holds the power passed on the her Ministers of the Crown. However the Armed Forces and the British people are loyal to her not the government of the day. In other countries, a President will not have the same affection from his people or the military. The Queen technically can declare war on her own, the US President cannot. Furthermore politicians come and go, a Monarch has continuous loyalty and affection by his/her people. The death of a British Monarch would cause more global grief than the death of a former US President I'm sure, although of course there would still be much grieving for a US President and rightly so.
Can QEII order the destruction of the entire planet in a matter of minutes with the push of a set of nuclear codes? The American president can.

And nope, he does not need the consent of Congress to do so.

The British monarch will almost always command prestige, affection and respect but to claim that any monarch, British or otherwise, is more powerful than the elected President of the United States is folly imo.

The sudden sad and unexpected passing of King George VI caused much global mourning, but I don't think it caused more grief than the sudden death of Franklin Roosevelt did in the spring of 1945, or the truly shocking murder of JFK in 1963 that sent the entire civilized world into shock and grief for months.
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  #130  
Old 08-19-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHPrinceD.J.H.W.G View Post
Monarchs are more powerful. Especially the British Monarch. The Queen holds the power passed on the her Ministers of the Crown. However the Armed Forces and the British people are loyal to her not the government of the day. In other countries, a President will not have the same affection from his people or the military. The Queen technically can declare war on her own, the US President cannot. Furthermore politicians come and go, a Monarch has continuous loyalty and affection by his/her people. The death of a British Monarch would cause more global grief than the death of a former US President I'm sure, although of course there would still be much grieving for a US President and rightly so.
Er no, saying monarchs are more powerful than presidents, which has been repeatedly said in this thread makes no sense. Leaders' "power" or positions in protocolar discussions are based on the legitimacy of their countries and the mandate granted to them by their people, that's why they're ranked based on their length of rule. If you want to get a sense of which leader is more powerful, take a look at the UN. Technically, one country = one vote but then you have the UNSC Permanent Members which have veto powers. Of course there are other issues at play when you talk about power like gravitas from force of personality (QEII, King Juan Carlos, Vladimir Putin, Bill Clinton), but those have nothing to do protocol which, although complicated, for the most part would have clear rules.

On what Duc_et_Pair said about Ambassadors and Heads of State with the same title of "Your Excellency," I know that few people observe this but supposedly, if the President is in the same place as his Ambassador in the latter's host country, say if a President is there for a State Visit, you're not supposed to address the Ambassador as "Excellency," only "Ambassador" with the "Excellency" address reserved for the President. The Ambassador gets his Excellency title only because he is the highest ranking representative of his country in his host government, so if his President is there, then he it's not appropriate to address him as "Excellency".
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  #131  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:03 PM
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This is truly a complicated matter indeed. It depends on the country you are in and if your president is a knight or decorated by the other country. In most places a royal in any country would be an honored guest in that country. The president would be the host and they would meet as equal diplomats. In some countries the president would treat guests from other countries as less than equal but still as diplomats from another country. A royal within their realm visiting, might out rank the president of the country but it is all within the same realm. a good example is provinces, islands and territories. a good rule of thumb is this.... honor anyone older than you and anyone female if you are male. acknowledge anyone else that is royal whether you bow or not. Speak when spoken to, and break the ice in conversation if necessary. When in doubt think of everyone like an old auntie and treat them accordingly.
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  #132  
Old 09-06-2016, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Can QEII order the destruction of the entire planet in a matter of minutes with the push of a set of nuclear codes? The American president can.

And nope, he does not need the consent of Congress to do so.

The British monarch will almost always command prestige, affection and respect but to claim that any monarch, British or otherwise, is more powerful than the elected President of the United States is folly imo.

The sudden sad and unexpected passing of King George VI caused much global mourning, but I don't think it caused more grief than the sudden death of Franklin Roosevelt did in the spring of 1945, or the truly shocking murder of JFK in 1963 that sent the entire civilized world into shock and grief for months.
Well, back in the early decades at least of Queen Victoria's reign, the British Empíre was still far more powerful and wealthier than the United States, so the British PM, if not the Queen herself, were conceivably more influential than the POTUS at that time.

Nowadays, I'd say the most powerful person in the world is probably Wladimir Putin as, although Russia is not particularly wealthy, he still can destroy the world without the same kinds of checks and balances that the POTUS has.
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