Keeping a title after the divorce

ysbel · #1 10-10-2005, 09:45 AM

In the thread "Will Charles Ever Reign" we started talking about Diana's titles after her divorce. Apparently she wanted to hold onto the Princess of Wales title and therefore turned down a dukedom in her own right which she would have kept for the rest of her life.

At the time of the divorce I was a bit surprised. Putting myself in her shoes, if my husband had treated me as badly as she said he treated her, I would have wanted nothing to do with anything like a title that reminded me of him. Except of course for the children.

But Diana may not have had a choice. I think royals who divorce may have to keep the title of their former partner afterwards. The only other divorces I know of are Fergie and Andrew and Alexandra and Joachim. Fergie keeping the title made more sense to me because she and Andrew remained on pretty good terms. Alexandra kept the Princess title but that's not exactly like keeping a title that only Joachim had for himself.

Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?

moosey60 · #2 10-10-2005, 04:03 PM

Well, when Joachim and Alexandra (of Denmark) divorced, she retained the title Princess of Denmark (but is now a HH instead of a HRH), and was granted the title of Countess.

sara1981 · #3 10-10-2005, 04:26 PM

good answer question,ysbel

but i knew about Prince Charles and Princess Diana got split in 1992 for 4 years and HM Queen Elizabeth II plans to divorces for Prince Charles and Princess Diana in February 1996 and Diana agrees to divorces! unlikes her parents who also divorces when she was 6 years old and her dad won custody for care of children and her mother had affair with another man but Diana known as Diana,Princess of Wales HM Queen given her right styles to Diana of her divorces and she lost titles HRH in August 1996

and Prince Andrew and Sarah,Duchess of York been split same years of Prince Charles and Princess Diana's because more REASONS of taboilds on her topless nude with affairs with another man but HM Queen got shock on taboilds about it the Yorks been split for years till divorces in 1996 same Prince Charles and Princess Diana but Sarah lost title of HRH but Sarah known as Sarah,Duchess of York

i have no idea about Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra got divorces for more reasons! but both still good married and HM Queen give her lost titles and styles but im not sure!

Sara Boyce

ysbel · #4 10-10-2005, 04:29 PM

Thanks moosey60,

I know about Princess Alexandra, but Joachim didn't have a title particular to him. I was wondering if other royal wives kept a title that only they and their husbands shared. Like Prince of Wales or Duke of York.

norwegianne · #5 10-10-2005, 05:06 PM

Frederik the seventh of Denmark was divorced twice, before marrying Louise Rasmussen aka. Countess Danner, to the left hand. (Incidentally, Countess Danner was the last Danish commoner to marry into the royal house, without the husband having to forfeit his royal status)

His first wife, Princess Wilhelmine/Vilhelmine of Denmark, daughter of Frederik VI - well, she'd probably just use her old title Princess of Denmark, wouldn't she? At least until she remarried.

But does anybody know what his second wife: Princess Caroline Charlotte Mariane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, did after the divorce?

**Humera** · #6 10-10-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel

Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?

sometimes the divorced royal may not have a choice, esp. if they were born non-royal. When the Sultan of Brunei divorced his second wife in 2003 he took away all her royal titles.

SpiffyBallerina · #7 10-10-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~

When the Sultan of Brunei divorced his second wife in 2003 he took away all her royal titles.

Harsh!!!:(

ysbel · #8 10-10-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne

His first wife, Princess Wilhelmine/Vilhelmine of Denmark, daughter of Frederik VI - well, she'd probably just use her old title Princess of Denmark, wouldn't she? At least until she remarried.

But does anybody know what his second wife: Princess Caroline Charlotte Mariane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, did after the divorce?

I don't know about Mariane but Wilhelmine seems to have married the brother of Christian IX.

I was thinking that if the marriage ended badly like the Waleses did, it would be more natural for the woman not to want the title anymore...unless there were other compelling reasons to keep it.

Lady Marmalade · #9 10-10-2005, 11:16 PM

Yes, but didn't the Queen issue letters of patent that said in effect, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the HRH title is taken away?

One could reason that since Diana and Sarah were only HRHs due to their marriages, then that style would have ceased for them if they divorced anyway.

In the case of Sophie, if she divorced Edward, then more than likely she would at least be know as Sophie, Countess of Wessex....as Diana and Sarah at least kept their titles..

Isabel · #10 10-10-2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

Yes, but didn't the Queen issue letters of patent that said in effect, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the HRH title is taken away?

One could reason that since Diana and Sarah were only HRHs due to their marriages, then that style would have ceased for them if they divorced anyway.

In the case of Sophie, if she divorced Edward, then more than likely she would at least be know as Sophie, Countess of Wessex....as Diana and Sarah at least kept their titles..

Yes, Diana and Sarah both lost their HRH's after their divorces. Diana was to be titled.....Diana, Princess of Whales, and Sarah....Sarah, Duchess of York. No HRH's.

Lady Marmalade · #11 10-11-2005, 11:03 AM

Thank you Isabel. :)

The titles can be a complex concept in some cases for understanding who gets called what in certain cases..

BeatrixFan · #12 10-11-2005, 11:13 AM

Diana was not an HRH at the time of her death, nor was she a Princess. Her title showed that she was a former Princess. She wasn't due deference befitting a Princess and however regal she may have behaved or considered herself, she was a commoner. The media may have christened her Princess Diana but she wasn't when she divorced, nor when she died. The new Princess of Wales is Camilla and she isn't Princess Camilla as I've seen pop up in places.

I personally think that on divorce, the woman should revert to her maiden name - Diana should have gone back to her Spencer title instead of trying to play the Princess card. She knew that the Press were thick and would still call her Princess Di - the sad thing is, I believe she came to think she still was.

**Warren** · #13 10-11-2005, 11:27 AM

I trust the subject of Diana is not going to take over this thread.

Here is Ysbel's original question:

Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?

W

ysbel · #14 10-11-2005, 11:31 AM

Yes I know Diana dropped the HRH designation but she kept the Princess of Wales title. Now if my husband had fooled around on me, I'd rather keep the HRH which is pretty generic and drop the Princess of Wales title that is so closely associated with my cheating ex. Who wants to be forever reminded of one's philandering husband? But I don't think she had that option.

ysbel · #15 10-11-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

I trust the subject of Diana is not going to take over this thread.

Here is Ysbel's original question:

Are there any other royal divorces where the wife kept the title or gave it up?

W

Hi Warren,

Actually my question was both about Diana and other royal women who got divorced. I couldn't understand if her divorce was as rancorous as it was, that she would want to keep the Princess of Wales title that was so closely associated with her husband and guessed that protocol must have been a factor. So I was looking for other contemporary examples to go on.

There don't seem to be many other contemporary examples.

BeatrixFan · #16 10-11-2005, 11:54 AM

What if the Duke and Duchess of Windsor had divorced?

She was HRH The Duchess of Windsor (non-morganatic marriage and all that) even though she didn't use the title. So if she divorced the Duke, I assume she'd have been Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and not The Duchess of Windsor.

Confusing or what?

Emilia · #17 10-11-2005, 12:19 PM

I know it is not the same , but Queen Fabiola also hold her title " Queen" , instead of to become Princess , afther the death of King Boudewijn .

Does somebody knows why ?

BeatrixFan · #18 10-11-2005, 12:27 PM

I'd imagine to show her past position. Much like the Queen Mother. She used the title, HM Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother to show that she had been Queen at one time and to show that she was mother to the present Queen.

I can't imagine Fabiola being anything other than Queen Fabiola. :)

Lady Marmalade · #19 10-11-2005, 12:31 PM

I would agree with you BeatrixFan.

I like the fact HM QEII allowed consent for Alice to become HRH Princess Alice of Gloucester when her husband died so as to avoid confusion between herself and her daughter-in-law, the new duchess.

Now....what do you all think Princess Michael's title would be if they divorced, banking on the fact Prince Michael does not have any subordinate titles, like his brother, other than prince and I do not think HM would let her keep the title of princess. But, I could be wrong...