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  #21  
Old 11-26-2008, 02:16 PM
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If he is an American citizen that is true,but I am not sure that Constitutional provision is stringently enforced. And I don't know what penalty would be given. But if you call yourself Tzaritza Russo they would not do a thing because it is not truly your Title from a foreign land.
That is probably why Michael Jackson called his boys Prince!!!
Wallis Windsor´s first husband had the first name Earl and I have seen written in a magazine that her first husband was a Count,,,,,,
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  #22  
Old 11-26-2008, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
That is probably why Michael Jackson called his boys Prince!!!
Wallis Windsor´s first husband had the first name Earl and I have seen written in a magazine that her first husband was a Count,,,,,,
You may call yourself Baron, Earl,Count,Prince,King or Qeenie,it is not a title and most are better suited for dogs,anyway.
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  #23  
Old 11-26-2008, 05:47 PM
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You may call yourself Baron, Earl,Count,Prince,King or Qeenie,it is not a title and most are better suited for dogs,anyway.
The name Earl and Title Earl,are scandinavian in origin,and came to England with the Viking invasions.
An Earl is a Count.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Sosnowitz View Post

Oh, I have never seen such as that british royal arms, where the wife's crest in centre of husbands's arms ! ! !
Yeah, aren't they usually impaled together?
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:49 PM
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Bessie Wallis Warfield's first husband was not an Earl, nor was he a Count (the same comital rank on the continent).
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by eborarmorist View Post
Yes, it is unusual and I'm not immediately aware of another case. This arrangement does often appear in the heraldry of nobilty and gentry. Although I was vaguely aware of the Duchess's basic arms, it was only when I went back to my note in order to do the graphic that I saw this and was surprised. The reason, I suspect, is that that the Duchess had no brothers - I've not verified this - in which case in English heraldry she is an 'heraldic heiress' capable of transmitting her father's arms to her children. In these cases the custom is for the wife's arms to be borne in the centre of the husband's ('in pretence'), rather than side by side ('impaled' on one shield, or 'accollée' on two shields). The source is reliable as this edition of Boutell (a standard work) was edited by John Brooke-Little, a member of the (English) College of Arms at the time.

Incidentally, thankyou you for all your heraldic posts - kösönöm szépen.
Arms inherited from a heraldic heiress ancestress are usually quartered with the other family arms, not placed in an escutchion. So I would suspect that the children are capable of quartering them. What still puzzles me about this case (and this may be one of the grey areas of heraldry) is that women usually carry arms in a lozenge (diamond) shape rather than a shield shape, which is how men bear them.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by chaz View Post
If he is an American citizen that is true,but I am not sure that Constitutional provision is stringently enforced.
Ordinary US Citizens aren't prohibited from holding, using, or even being granted foreign titles. The constitution only prohibits federal government officials from being granted them without the consent of Congress. If even they get it via indirect means (inheritance), they can have it. There was a proposed amendment in the early 19th century that came within one state's approval of stripping anyone of citizenship who accepted a foreign title, but it was never approved (it still could be, although that's highly unlikely).
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2008, 05:05 AM
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I admit my knowledge was rather vague on this
point,thanks for the clarification.
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  #29  
Old 12-05-2008, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Prince of Chota View Post
Arms inherited from a heraldic heiress ancestress are usually quartered with the other family arms, not placed in an escutchion. So I would suspect that the children are capable of quartering them. What still puzzles me about this case (and this may be one of the grey areas of heraldry) is that women usually carry arms in a lozenge (diamond) shape rather than a shield shape, which is how men bear them.
The difference is shape is due to the use of the escutcheon during battles in ancient times, only knights/men could use it. This is the reason why somebody thought to a losange form to contain female's arms.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2008, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Prince of Chota View Post
Bessie Wallis Warfield's first husband was not an Earl, nor was he a Count (the same comital rank on the continent).
Menarue meant that his first name was Earl, not title and somebody else mistakenly relayed that her first husband held the title of Count.
Earl Warfield was a Jr. from his father who was a Sr.
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  #31  
Old 12-07-2008, 03:48 AM
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Thanks Russo, that is exactly what I meant, I thought it was funny that someone could make a mistake like that. Actually the real Prince Pavlos of Greece said that quite often in the US people talking to him on the phone thought that Prince was his first name and called him Mr Pavlos.
The title Earl for the Continental Count came from the Viking Jarl and it is curious that the wife of an earl is called Countess in Britain. Marquess and Marchioness also interesting.
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  #32  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:25 AM
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Woiewoda

In Poland no one was awarded the title Count. The equivalent title would be Woiewoda a literal translation of which,would be War Lord.
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  #33  
Old 12-07-2008, 09:08 PM
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The "Marrying Mdivanni's" also used the title "Prince" which they got away with after the Revolution. I wonder what type of arms they came up with??
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:05 PM
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I don't know if this is the correct place to post this, but it's in heraldry, so i'm just going to go ahead. I had a few questions and I was wondering if anyone could help me:

1. If England got a full coat of arms, what do you think the supporters would be? I imagine the one on the left would be the golden lion, the same as it appears in the British coat of arms, but I'm not sure what the one on the right would be.

2. Why did Elizabeth II change the crown in the coat of arms from the imperial crown to St Edward's crown? It seems to me that the imperial crown would be more appropriate for the whole United Kingdom and that St Edward's crown is something more English, rather than British.

3. Why are some supporters in heraldry chained? Does it depend on the animal?

4. Could any kind of supporter wear a crown? Or are there some rules? And does it depend on the practicality (eg. if a deer was wearing a crown, it might be a bit hard because the antlers would get in the way)?
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2014, 02:57 PM
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Heraldry

Does anyone know a skilled artist that is good at making a herald? wold liek to take my family one and modify it
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  #36  
Old 05-08-2014, 02:58 PM
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sorry, poor typist....
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