Bowing and Curtseying

[LauraS3514]

Probably because they had already seen their mother/grandmother at Sandringham that morning. I believe the rule is you only need to curtsey/bow at your first meeting of the day. So this was the first time the Cambridges and Harry & Meghan had seen the Queen that day.

I remember many years ago someone in an interview asked Princess Michael about curtseying and she said it's "hello and goodbye." My guess is also that the Cambridges, Harry, and Meghan hadn't seen The Queen yet that morning, and that the preference is to NOT bow & curtsey at a regular church service, but afterwards. Obviously, formal occasions such as Thanksgiving Services, weddings, etc. are in a different category.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Desiree of Sweden curtseying to Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko of Japan
Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko are welcomed by Princess Desiree... News Photo | Getty Images

Bernadette Chirac, the wife of President Jacques Chirac of France, curtsied to Queen Elizabeth II at the Entente Cordiale Celebrations.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/52116193

Princess Caroline of Monaco, when she was still married to her first husband Philippe Junot, curtsied to King Hussein of Jordan in 1978.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/98741969

Crown Princess Mary of Denmark curtsied to Queen Maxima of The Netherlands at Copenhagen Airport on March 17, 2015.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/466582180

Princess Michael of Kent curtseyed to Queen Elizabeth II at Royal Ascot.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/171048257

Letizia, the fiancee of Crown Prince Felipe of Spain curtseyed to Infanta Pilar.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/50884936

 

[Mbruno]

The princesses of the blood behind her didn't curtsey at all. So, they could have easily avoided it but didn't. So, to me it looks like a (practiced) sign of respect of the brothers and their wife/fiancée for their (future) grandmother the queen (and as Harry and Meghan stayed with William and Catherine they had lots of time to practice in between the playing with George and Charlotte - still Meghan seemed rather nervous).

Honestly, I don't see why a healthy, young woman should feel nervous about doing something as simple as genuflecting. Meghan probably does far more complicated things every week on her yoga or Pilates classes (assuming she takes those, which is likely for an actress !).

 

[Pranter]

Honestly, I don't see why a healthy, young woman should feel nervous about doing something as simple as genuflecting. Meghan probably does far more complicated things every week on her yoga or Pilates classes (assuming she takes those, which is likely for an actress !).

According to Meghan in previous interviews she's been doing yoga since she was a child (her mother teaches yoga) and still goes a few times a week. I've seen pics of her in poses and she is super flexible. She has all kinds of muscle control/tone. Curtseying would be a simple thing for her.


LaRae

 

[Countessmeout]

The princesses of the blood behind her didn't curtsey at all. So, they could have easily avoided it but didn't. So, to me it looks like a (practiced) sign of respect of the brothers and their wife/fiancée for their (future) grandmother the queen (and as Harry and Meghan stayed with William and Catherine they had lots of time to practice in between the playing with George and Charlotte - still Meghan seemed rather nervous). So, I see no reason at all to think that she finds it silly: she is clearly adopting all the different customs of her new life/family as well as she possibly can. It won't be perfect but she has years of fine-tuning ahead of her.

Staying with the Cambridges would have been the reason they were the only ones bowing. They don't bow to the queen every time they see her, just the first time they see her in the day. For those who had stayed at the main house, like her daughter and granddaughters, they'd have already seen her.

Honestly, I don't see why a healthy, young woman should feel nervous about doing something as simple as genuflecting. Meghan probably does far more complicated things every week on her yoga or Pilates classes (assuming she takes those, which is likely for an actress !).

Not sure pilates, but we have seen Meghan leave yoga class plenty in the media. And has been doing it for years with her mother who teaches it. Plenty of photos of Meghan showing off her yoga flexibility.

 

[Mbruno]

I have a question: we all know that any kind of Highness ( i,e. Imperial Highness, Royal Highness, Serene Highness, etc) normally has to bow/curtsy to a Majesty, but, by the same logic, shouldn't a Royal Highness bow/curtsy to an Imperial Highness, or shouldn't a Highness or Serene Highness bow/curtsy to a Royal Highness or an Imperial Highness ? Why is it the case that we don't normally see that happening ?

 

[W.Y.CII]

I have a question: we all know that any kind of Highness ( i,e. Imperial Highness, Royal Highness, Serene Highness, etc) normally has to bow/curtsy to a Majesty, but, by the same logic, shouldn't a Royal Highness bow/curtsy to an Imperial Highness, or shouldn't a Highness or Serene Highness bow/curtsy to a Royal Highness or an Imperial Highness ? Why is it the case that we don't normally see that happening ?

I think now the royals usually only bow/curtsy to monarchs (and their spouses). If it does not involve sovereign heads, they just have a normal greeting.

But if the "Royal Highness" or "Serene Highness" also is sovereign head (e.g. Henri and Albert), I think he/she doesn't need to bow/curtsy to the "Majesty". It is not always "Imperial Highness" outranks "Royal Highness" outranks "Serene Highness", sometimes they are all same.

Question: do the other "Royal Highness" or "Serene Highness" have to bow/curtsy to Henri and Albert (or other sovereign heads without the style Majesty)?

 

[wyevale]

do the other "Royal Highness" or "Serene Highness" have to bow/curtsy to Henri and Albert (or other sovereign heads without the style Majesty)?

Yes, as a courtesy to a Head of State.

 

[Mbruno]

I think now the royals usually only bow/curtsy to monarchs (and their spouses). If it does not involve sovereign heads, they just have a normal greeting.

But if the "Royal Highness" or "Serene Highness" also is sovereign head (e.g. Henri and Albert), I think he/she doesn't need to bow/curtsy to the "Majesty". It is not always "Imperial Highness" outranks "Royal Highness" outranks "Serene Highness", sometimes they are all same.

Question: do the other "Royal Highness" or "Serene Highness" have to bow/curtsy to Henri and Albert (or other sovereign heads without the style Majesty)?

I have seen pictures of GD Maria Teresa of Luxembourg curtsying to QEII and I think the Sovereign Prince of Monaco also bows to her. That seems to conform to the rule that a Royal Highness or Serene Highness bows/curtsies to a Majesty even when he or she is a sovereign or a sovereign's consort.

 

[W.Y.CII]

I have seen pictures of GD Maria Teresa of Luxembourg curtsying to QEII and I think the Sovereign Prince of Monaco also bows to her. That seems to conform to the rule that a Royal Highness or Serene Highness bows/curtsies to a Majesty even when he or she is a sovereign or a sovereign's consort.

Not sure about Monaco (yes I remember that I've see photos of Albert and Charlene bow/curtsy to QEII too) but I still believe that GD of Luxembourg doesn't need to bow/curtsy to Majesty.

0:06 Henri didn't bow (and unfortunately it didn't show MT)

1:33 both Henri and MT didn't bow/curtsy to Beatrix (but interestingly Guillaume didn't too)

0:25 both Jean and JC didn't bow/curtsy to QEII (and again, Margaret and Anne didn't curtsy to GD couple too)

I think we will never get a clear answer because somehow I think it really depends on individuals and they don't have an actual rule about that

 

[Mbruno]

Not sure about Monaco (yes I remember that I've see photos of Albert and Charlene bow/curtsy to QEII too) but I still believe that GD of Luxembourg doesn't need to bow/curtsy to Majesty.

0:06 Henri didn't bow (and unfortunately it didn't show MT)

1:33 both Henri and MT didn't bow/curtsy to Beatrix (but interestingly Guillaume didn't too)

0:25 both Jean and JC didn't bow/curtsy to QEII (and again, Margaret and Anne didn't curtsy to GD couple too)

I think we will never get a clear answer because somehow I think it really depends on individuals and they don't have an actual rule about that

Indeed, GD Henri didn't bow to QEII in the first video. I am not sure about Maria Teresa though. She seems to bend her knee, but maybe she was just adjusting to Queen Elizabeth's height .

Honestly I would be surprised if Henri had bowed to Queen Beatrix. First of all, she was a fellow Benelux monarch, Second, being from a Benelux country himself, Henri is fully aware that bowing and curtsying are no longer observed in practice in those countries,

BTW, did the Princes of Belgium (I mean the HRHs, not the King) bow to Queen Beatrix ? Or do the Princesses and Princes of the Netherlanda bow/ curtsy to the King of the Belgians ? I suspect they don't although I know that British or Scandinavian princes/ princesses did/ do in both cases.

 

[W.Y.CII]

BTW, did the Princes of Belgium (I mean the HRHs, not the King) bow to Queen Beatrix ? Or do the Princesses and Princes of the Netherlanda bow/ curtsy to the King of the Belgians ? I suspect they don't although I know that British or Scandinavian princes/ princesses did/ do in both cases.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/63/a2/c1/63a2c165b54b102610739b10beb07c50--dutch-royalty-royal-house.jpg
The lady in blue is Laurentien, and I don't find any photo of the belgians bow/curtsy to the Netherlands' king and queen but I'm pretty they would also bow/curtsy to them.

I know sometimes they are not as strict as the Scandinavian and British on bow and curtsy but they still follow the basic rule - bow and curtsy to foreign king and queen (the majesty).

 

[MARG]

The rules for bowing and curtseys seem to go all over the place when lots of royals are together. I think it comes down to Majesties for the ladies but I have also seen Princesses curtsying to CP Victoria and, since they are all friends, I believe it is a personal respect thing. Men just confuse the issue when they start kissing hands!

 

[W.Y.CII]

The rules for bowing and curtseys seem to go all over the place when lots of royals are together. I think it comes down to Majesties for the ladies but I have also seen Princesses curtsying to CP Victoria and, since they are all friends, I believe it is a personal respect thing. Men just confuse the issue when they start kissing hands!

The men have too many things to do to greet a lady, bowing/kissing hand/shaking hand/kissing cheek/saluting, while the ladies usually only shake hand, kiss cheek and then curtsy.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Bernadette Chirac, the wife of President Jacques Chirac of France, curtsied to Queen Elizabeth II at the Entente Cordiale Celebrations.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/52116193

I think Mrs. Chirac, or other heads of state and their spouses, shouldn't bow/curtsy to other monarchs......but after all it's all about individual choice.

 

[maria-olivia]

At the Belgian State Visit in Denmark no Belgian Minister bow for Queen Margarethe. It is out of use in Belgium .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is just gallantry. The bowing, the révérence. As long as it is voluntarily and never an obligation. It is like the "oldfashioned" handkiss. A very private choice to do so. Even by people who are really not "oldfashioned".

Princess Laurentien of the Netherlands receives a handkiss

Princess Madeleine of Sweden receives a handkiss

Doña Letizia receives a handkiss from the Duke of Savoy

Dutch Prime Minister Rutte gives a handkiss 1

Dutch Prime Minister Rutte gives a handkiss 2

Dutch Prime Minister Rutte gives a handkiss 3

The Prince of Wales gives a handkiss

 

[Mbruno]

At the Belgian State Visit in Denmark no Belgian Minister bow for Queen Margarethe. It is out of use in Belgium .

Which was very rude on their part considering that all princes and princesses of Denmark (except Frederik apparently), all Danish courtiers, and even some ordinary Danes on the street bowed/curtsied to Queen Mathilde !

 

[W.Y.CII]

No, they are not obligated to bow/curtsy so it's not rude at all. Like what maria-olivia said, Belgium doesn't have a strong tradition of bow/curtsy, the government officials also don't bow/curtsy to their royals (I remember their PM doesn't bow to Phillipe and Mathilde, just handshakes). Every country has different customs .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In the Netherlands the same. The ministers handle the King with all égards, they dress up to the dresscode, it is Your Majesty before and Your Majesty after, but a bow, no. In this video you can see the ministers meeting the King. All respectful anyway.

 

[Mbruno]

No, they are not obligated to bow/curtsy so it's not rude at all. Like what maria-olivia said, Belgium doesn't have a strong tradition of bow/curtsy, the government officials also don't bow/curtsy to their royals (I remember their PM doesn't bow to Phillipe and Mathilde, just handshakes). Every country has different customs .

I beg to differ, It is Ok for an American official not to bow to QMIi as the Danish courtiers and princes probably will not bow to the President of the United States. However, on a state visit where all Danes are bowing to the Belgian monarch, it is indeed rude for the Belgians not to bow to the Danish Queen. It is a matter of reciprocity, which is the Golden rule of foreign relations.

 

[maria-olivia]

One former Prime Minister sat before the King in his Royal Office...
Times are changing Mbruno and the respect for Royals also.

 

[Mbruno]

One former Prime Minister sat before the King in his Royal Office...
Times are changing Mbruno and the respect for Royals also.

Well, Belgium is a " popular monarchy " after all, só it's not surprising that they should do things differently there !

I wonder though if it has been always like that or if that relaxation of protocol began wiith King Baudouin' and his brother,

I suspect Queen Mathikde wouldn't mind a little bit more protocol; she seems to enjoy being called 'Majesty' and maybe being curtsied to.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Personally, I would say only royals are expected to bow/curtsy. From ordinary people who have no title at all, it's up to their choices, no matter in what situation.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Belgian Protocol relaxation started with King Albert II who was a modern and unexpected King.

 

[wyevale]

reciprocity, which is the Golden rule of foreign relations.

Then I DREAD to imagine how Americans will be treated abroad in the next few years [but this is 'hors sujet']..

 

[Lady Nimue]

It is just gallantry. The bowing, the révérence. As long as it is voluntarily and never an obligation. It is like the "oldfashioned" handkiss. A very private choice to do so. Even by people who are really not "oldfashioned".

Doña Letizia receives a handkiss from the Duke of Savoy

Dutch Prime Minister Rutte gives a handkiss 3

The Prince of Wales gives a handkiss

The Letizia one could have an amusing caption. Fleipe looks like he is monitoring the elderly gallant.

Do not understand the second picture. Looks like the lady is turning away while the gentleman is the midst of the kiss.

And Charles and Mary look like they are enjoying their bit of the old-fashioned gallantry.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

That lady was the Speaker of the Second Chamber passing by while the Prime Minister was telephoning behind the coulisses. He saw the Speaker coming and -while continuing the telephone call- popped out of the coulisses and greeted her with a handkiss.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I think Mrs. Chirac, or other heads of state and their spouses, shouldn't bow/curtsy to other monarchs......but after all it's all about individual choice.

W.Y.CII, why do you think that heads of state should not bow/curtsy to other monarchs?

 

[VictoriaB]

[-][/-]

W.Y.CII, why do you think that heads of state should not bow/curtsy to other monarchs?

Because they are all equal - all heads of state. Having one bow to another suggests one is more important than another and they are not.