Bowing and Curtseying

[Sun Lion]

This article is silly. Philip knew about royal etiquette his entire young life before he married HM. He was never surprised about the aspects of court obeisance.

Philip wasn't suprised.

He was joking about.

Doing a curtsey because he was in a skirt, (that is, he was in a kilt) - instead of doing a bow as a man would normally do.

(That's why the king wasn't amused.)

 

[Sun Lion]

The media, and many royal followers mistake 'precedence' for curtseying and as a result assume that if a person has to give way to another they also have to curtsey.

The royals do not curtsey to each other to a large extent.

Who will Meghan curtsey to - The Queen and maybe Philip as her consort. That is it.

Who will she give way to when about to enter a room - that will vary according to the situation:

If the event is a full public event she will give way to those ahead of Harry in the Order of Precedence (although the BRF have been following far more an order of succession rather than actual precedence in recent years). If true precedence is followed then she would be behind all of the Queen's children and William and Kate but if they follow just the line of succession then the Queen, Charles and William obviously - and in time, George, Charlotte and #3.

When in private - it will depend on whether there are any men present:

If only women present then she will be behind ALL those born HRH Princess ... so behind Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie along with behind Camilla and William.

If any man if present - not just Harry - then she will take her precedence as if Harry was there.

The main reason for the private precedence is that it means that there is a clear order for them to enter rooms and sit down when they are all together so if they are all at Windsor and Meghan arrives at a door at exactly the same time as Beatrice then Beatrice enters first but if Meghan and Harry arrive at exactly the same time then they enter first (unless Harry is a gentleman in which case he would let all the women in before him).

Sadly any people simply don't get it ... because they are either obtuse or stupid or too lazy to try to understand.

Thanks for your patience Iluvbertie in explaining all this - and to all the other posters.

I don't know that people are obtuse, stupid or lazy - or too lazy - to understand.

Probably more that the whole Royal thing is just a passing interest and not something more than that in their lives.

Appreciate you all taking time out of your day to put on record the facts, and to spend time trying to dispel the myths.

(But that's a losing battle I guess, the media's reach is far greater than Royal blogs.This is currently the top story on both the US and the UK MailOnline sites, being read by what? - at least tens of thousands of people.)

Anyway, thanks everyone and best wishes.

 

[MARG]

I'm still laughing at the notion of Beatrice, Eugenie and I guess Louise and James having to curtsey to their cousin Harry. William yes, after he becomes king.

 

[Gaudete]

I'm still laughing at the notion of Beatrice, Eugenie and I guess Louise and James having to curtsey to their cousin Harry. William yes, after he becomes king.

Wouldn't Louise be a bit of a unique case in that she would have to curtsey to Harry in private by virtue of him being a Royal Highness and she being styled as the daughter of an Earl? I might be way off track with this one but I'm sure in the much shared clip on YouTube of the Royal Family gathering at Clarence House in the garden, Zara curtsied to the Prince of Wales?

 

[jacqui24]

I know the Queen changed the precedence for the women of the royal house when Camilla and Charles got married to blood royal princesses takes precedence in absence of the husband. However, I wonder if Charles will follow this or change it back to how it was before?

 

[tommy100]

TBH as Camilla, as his consort, would be above them all he may well keep it the same.

 

[Jacknch]

Just as a reminder, we have the following thread to discuss the Order of Precedence:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/order-of-precedence-6536.html

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

In Norway there's been more normal than before for ordinary people to bow/curtsey to the King (due to his popularity).

Some politicians/diplomats does it as well, and here's a photo of Denmarks new ambassador to Norway Jarl Frijs-Madsen bowing to HM during the formal audience in September:
https://scanpix.no/spWebApp/preview/editorial/tc3a4ae6

 

[Skippyboo]

Wouldn't Louise be a bit of a unique case in that she would have to curtsey to Harry in private by virtue of him being a Royal Highness and she being styled as the daughter of an Earl? I might be way off track with this one but I'm sure in the much shared clip on YouTube of the Royal Family gathering at Clarence House in the garden, Zara curtsied to the Prince of Wales?

Nope, Zara just hugs her uncle while Charles is seated. The Queen, Philip and the Queen Mum are the only one that are bow/curtesy to in the video. Just watched it.

 

[Gaudete]

My mistake. I should imagine if Zara doesn’t have to curtesy to the PoW then Lady Louise won’t either.

 

[Skippyboo]

It’s simple Monarch, Consort and Dowager Consorts only for the family bow/curtesy. The pre Christmas BP lunch would never get eaten if everyone was bowing to everyone.

 

[Darnius]

Queen Anne-Marie of Greece curtseys (?) to the coffin of King Michael of Romania.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/16/12/4760A8FD00000578-5185873-image-a-121_1513426067411.jpg

 

[Gaudete]

Watching the funeral service today, Queen Anne Marie curtsied to the coffin a couple of times. The other ladies simply bowed.

 

[JR76]

Watching the funeral service today, Queen Anne Marie curtsied to the coffin a couple of times. The other ladies simply bowed.

I don't know if Anne-Maries upbringing has anything to do with her curtseying but that used to be standard at Scandinavian Royal funerals. At the funeral service of her grandfather Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden the ladies did deep curtsies all the way down to the floor.

 

[MARG]

With the reburied of one of the Danish born Russian royals in St Petersburg I think, the DRF accompanied the coffin. Queen Margaret bowed her head at the coffin. CP Mary dropped a full court curtsey.

 

[tommy100]

I'm sure we saw Queen Margrethe curtsey to the coffin of Sweden's Princess Lillian.

 

[Mbruno]

I'm sure we saw Queen Margrethe curtsey to the coffin of Sweden's Princess Lillian.

Queen Margrethe also curtsied to the coffins of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and Queen Fabiola (you can see it on YouTube). I assume it is a Danish tradition.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Margaret of Great Britain curtsied to King Feisal.

 

[Princess Squirrel]

I certainly don't think any of them bow and curtsey except to the Queen. It would get ridiculous all queuing up in order to bow and curtsey to each other. And I think it's really silly to say Meghan is the only one who doesn't HAVE to curtsey to the Queen. Nobody HAS to. It's not like they'd get locked in the Tower if they didn't. They'd just be considered rude, as would Meghan, so she's really no different to, say Kate or Sophie. I think some Americans just want to feel superior about it.

 

[Osipi]

I agree with you, Princess Squirrel. As an American myself, I would most certainly do the best curtsy that I could possibly do without ending up eating the floor out of pure respect for the Queen. Not because its protocol or not protocol for an American to do so but out of my own personal admiration and respect for this marvelous woman.

 

[ACO]

They all curtsy to the Queen. I suspect for everyone else they only really do it with each other officially and not when they just chilling out of the view of the public.

 

[Princess Squirrel]

They all curtsy to the Queen. I suspect for everyone else they only really do it with each other officially and not when they just chilling out of the view of the public.

It don't think even officially. Think about it: an official engagement and Kate has to curtsy to HM, Phillip, Charles, Camilla, Anne, Beatrice and Eugine, Andrew? Sophie has to curtsy to the same plus William and Kate and Harry, William has to bow to all the same except himself, Kate and Harry, Harry has to bow to all the same except Kate, Edward has to bow to all except Sophie, Kate....it would take ages just to bow and curtsy to everyone before the event could even start! I have seen Sophie and Camilla, Beatrice, Eugine, Kate and Camilla all curtsying to The Queen (let's leave out the men bowing for now) so they all do. I would imagine too, that if Kate met Anne when none of the others were there she might curtsy to her. But when they are all together I'm sure they only make an obeisance to the Queen.

Now if any of us 'commoners' met a royal, we could (if we wanted) bow or curtsy to them. But I don't think the royals themselves go to functions making mental calculations on the order of curtseying.

(I personally don't actually know if I'd curtsy or not. It's something I would have to think about. Perhaps if I was hoping to get the royal person to back my charity/campaign it would be wisest to, lol.)

 

[ACO]

You could be right. I haven't really noticed them doing it to each other. I just notice when they do it to the Queen. I imagine they don't really to each other much. Talk about tedious.

 

[Missjersey]

I agree with you, Princess Squirrel. As an American myself, I would most certainly do the best curtsy that I could possibly do without ending up eating the floor out of pure respect for the Queen. Not because its protocol or not protocol for an American to do so but out of my own personal admiration and respect for this marvelous woman.

Absolutely, just respect.

 

[jacqui24]

Everyone curtsy to the Queen and Prince Phillip. The rest don’t curtsy to each other.

 

[duchessrachel]

I agree with you, Princess Squirrel. As an American myself, I would most certainly do the best curtsy that I could possibly do without ending up eating the floor out of pure respect for the Queen. Not because its protocol or not protocol for an American to do so but out of my own personal admiration and respect for this marvelous woman.

Same here. I would be honored to curtsy to the Queen.

 

[M. Payton]

And I would be more then thrilled to curtsy to HM, and then faint afterwards. To me she is a living symbol of England and all that it entails.

 

[hel]

Everyone curtsy to the Queen and Prince Phillip. The rest don’t curtsy to each other.

Yep, agreed. This seems to be borne out by the video of the BRF at a family garden party ("Prince Charles and the Royal Family in The Garden Party" on youtube).

You can see Zara curtseying to the Queen and TQM, but coming up behind Charles to give him a hug. In the background behind HM and TQM, you can see people greeting each other with cheek kisses only,

 

[Fem]

It don't think even officially. Think about it: an official engagement and Kate has to curtsy to HM, Phillip, Charles, Camilla, Anne, Beatrice and Eugine, Andrew? Sophie has to curtsy to the same plus William and Kate and Harry, William has to bow to all the same except himself, Kate and Harry, Harry has to bow to all the same except Kate, Edward has to bow to all except Sophie, Kate....it would take ages just to bow and curtsy to everyone before the event could even start! I have seen Sophie and Camilla, Beatrice, Eugine, Kate and Camilla all curtsying to The Queen (let's leave out the men bowing for now) so they all do. I would imagine too, that if Kate met Anne when none of the others were there she might curtsy to her. But when they are all together I'm sure they only make an obeisance to the Queen.

As it was said many, many times in this thread, members of the british royal family curtsy only to Queen and Duke of Edinburgh, not to each other.

Some people use the order of the precedence (that dictactes who's coming to the room first, who's sitting first) to determine who curtsy to who, but it's not being done this way. Try watching a few videos of royal gatherings: curtsy to Queen, Duke of Edinburgh and then kissing cheeks.

 

[Lisele]

It seems the British has a different curtsey style? They usually places their right leg behind the left leg (like Sophie's), while the others just put their right leg backward (see Marie's).

It looks quite difficult to balance to me

Wow I didn't know this thread was here so I'm just catching up. ?

I was taught to curtsey and genuflect by my grandmother - I don't know why but she felt it was something I should know. I didn't know why I had to curtsey with my right knee (which is comfortable since I'm right handed) and genuflect with my left (which is uncomfortable for me). So I looked it up and this is what I found.

"As for genuflecting, generally people genuflected to royalty with the left knee and to God with the right leg.

People do not genuflect to royalty. Males bow, and females curtsey which is very different"