Bowing and Curtseying


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LauraS3514 said:
I could be mistaken, but wasn't one of the purposes of a curtsey to "lower" yourself in respect - i.e. make your head lower than the higher ranking royal's? If that is the case, then Diana's deep curtseys make sense, since she was so tall. Just wondering...
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Might be, but ages, I mean, centuries ago..But now it is just a gesture of courtesy..Diana's curtsey was her own style..It has nothing to do with 'fulfilling the purpose'.
 
vkrish said:
Might be, but ages, I mean, centuries ago..But now it is just a gesture of courtesy..Diana's curtsey was her own style..It has nothing to do with 'fulfilling the purpose'.
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That's true, women can curtsy any way they want to.
 
Artemisia said:
Below is the video of Anne (supposedly) curtseying to the Duchess of Cornwall. Go to 04:07

It does look like a curtsey, and Anne was certainly not even looking at the Queen, so presumably the curtsey was intended for someone else. Camilla is standing right in front of her, so it's logical to assume Anne was curtseying to her sister-in-law.

This said, it might just have been Anne bending down a little to have a better look at something. I must say I'm more inclined to believe in this version since it didn't strike me as a particularly official moment, one The Princess Royal would consider curtseying to The Duchess of Cornwall. And indeed, Beatrice and Eugenie didn't curtsey to the Queen upon greeting her, and they usually do that regardless of how official an event is (as long as it's not a completely private one).

Guests at the Royal Ascot Festival 2008 - YouTube
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IMO, it is definitely a curtsey.
When Princess Anne curtsey the Queen looks her way & smiles. It also looks like Princess Anne was trying to position herself near her mother but there was always someone nearby.

IMO, the curtsey was either for the Queen or Prince Charles who is standing near Camilla or maybe it was for Prince Phillip who was out of camera range.

Beatrice and Eugenie would not have curtsey to the Queen in the video as they had already met her before arriving at Ascot.

The Queen doesn't expect people to continually curtsey/bow to her each time they have met if they have already curtseyed/bowed earlier that day.
 
Queen Camilla said:
IMO, it is definitely a curtsey.
When Princess Anne curtsey the Queen looks her way & smiles. It also looks like Princess Anne was trying to position herself near her mother but there was always someone nearby.

IMO, the curtsey was either for the Queen or Prince Charles who is standing near Camilla or maybe it was for Prince Phillip who was out of camera range.
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I think so too. I wish I could see Princess Anne curtsy more often!
 
I just got a PM from someone who was there that day; Anne was indeed curtsying to the Queen as she had not seen her that day.
 
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sarahedwards2 said:
I just got a PM from someone who was there that day; Anne was indeed curtsying to the Queen as she had not seen her that day.
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Even if the Princess Royal herself comes and tells me that she was curtseying, I will not believe it.
SHE WAS NOT DIRECTED TO THE QUEEN. THAT INTERACTION WAS OVER.
And it was not at all a curtsey, even to Camilla. Senior royals maintain the same style to every person, they don't change, the depth, breadth, etc, etc, depending on the person. And if you see see the other curtsies of Anne, you will knowIt was not at all a curtsey.

And I don't know why people want Anne to curtsey to Camilla, or for that matter, Diana. If she curtsies them, before that she we have to curtsey Charles, which is silly..of course till he becomes the King. I have not seen any Princess curtseying to their heir-brother till they ascend to throne.

So please stop portraying it as Ann's head-strongness or tracing attributing it to the presumes Ann-Diana coldness

PS: The second part was not directed towards sarahedwards
 
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No need to shout, vkrish. Respect for other's opinions is one of the cornerstones of civilization.
 
:previous:It was not at all shouting. I have my own problems, you know..I carefully draft some post in detail but many a time hardly anyone replies or even notices it. So sometimes I bolden things so that they are noticed. It is just expressing my opinion. And I already mentioned that the latter part of my post was in no way related to sarahedwards.
 
I notice that women considered "close" to the Queen, kiss her first and then curtsey, right from Diana to Margaret to Bea/Eu..whoever (Same with men first kiss and bow). But recently I have seen at all times Kate is first curtseying the Queen first and then kissing her. Doesnt she yet consider herself 'close' to Queen? Or is it just like that..:lol:
 
Curtseying to flag...!?

I found this thing very weird at the Luxembourg royal wedding. Before entering the church, there was the national flag in front of which all royals passed through ( I found that itself weird, though)

I assume the universal protocol for a national flag is..Salute if you are in uniform, or bow if you are not in uniform ( and I also assume it is irrespective of age/ sex/ rank, ie, HoS to commoner). Accordingly, at all gaurds of honor during State visits and other occasions, we see people bowing or saluting.

But weirdly here many Crown Princesses started curtseying. And on top of that the first one to do so was Mette-Marit, who, I assume, believes she was born to curtsey:lol:. We can ignore that, but Mary, and even Victoria curtseyed. Only Maxima, and of course Sophie bowed correctly. I think maxima is used to it as she and Queen bow everytime before entering and whili leaving Parliament on Prinsedaag. And other princesses are normally never offered salute with the national flag. Only monarchs or CPs are.
What do you say about this?
The most common reply I expect is "different nations have different traditions".
But I do not agree with it. Bowing to a national flag is same for every country. Flag is not a senior royal whom you can greet in your own style..
 
I noticed that too while watching the Luxembourg wedding and I noticed that even the Luxembourg head of state paid their respects. Just like a salute by uniformed personnel or hand over heart for civilians during the pledge of allegiance here in the US, its a mark of respect as the flag is the symbol of everything a country stands for. This was a high profile wedding of the head of state's son with many foreign crowned heads or their heirs attending. To give recognition to their national symbol was a personal recognition to their host country and the people they have come to celebrate with IMO.
 
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vkrish said:
:previous:It was not at all shouting. I have my own problems, you know..I carefully draft some post in detail but many a time hardly anyone replies or even notices it. So sometimes I bolden things so that they are noticed. It is just expressing my opinion.
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Thing is, typing whole sentences or phrases in uppercase in internet communications is considered to be shouting, and if those words are bolded too it comes across as shouting very loudly. I don't think everyone knows this though; I once encountered a young woman who posted all her board messages in uppercase and after a while it got very irritating. When I pointed it out she denied my assertion vehmently.
 
:previous:Oh, Osipi..my point is not the flag or paying respects to it. It is about curtseying to the flag. Do normal citizens in Norway/ Denmark/Sweden curtsey to their flags? Then why did the Princesses do? They should have bowed to it. The way of paying respect to a flag is same for everyone, be it the monarch or a commoner..they should have bowed to the flag, just like every other of their countrymen/women do..
Curtseying is a way of showing respect to an individual, not a flag..
 
vkrish said:
:previous:Oh, Osipi..my point is not the flag or paying respects to it. It is about curtseying to the flag. Do normal citizens in Norway/ Denmark/Sweden curtsey to their flags? Then why did the Princesses do? They should have bowed to it. The way of paying respect to a flag is same for everyone, be it the monarch or a commoner..they should have bowed to the flag, just like every other of their countrymen/women do..
Curtseying is a way of showing respect to an individual, not a flag..
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I would amend that statement to read that the way of paying respect to a flag is the same for everyone in their own country. OK so that's close to the answer you were expecting to get eh? Different strokes for different folks.

I looked up different meanings of the word curtsey. In none of them did it specificially mention that it is limited to individuals only.

curtsy, curtsey [ˈkɜːtsɪ]
n pl -sies, -seys
a formal gesture of greeting and respect made by women in which the knees are bent, the head slightly bowed, and the skirt held outwards.

In this regards, a woman was well within protocol to make a curtsey to the national flag. When I think more about it, this makes sense as with how the processional into the church went, bowing and curseying (choice of the person) could also have represented paying respects to the head of state. Anyone remember if the congregation bowed as either Henri or MT made their way up the aisle?

Another little interesting tidbit I happened to find while we're on this subject of respects to a flag. Sometimes even flags do their own little bow (or curtsey if its windy). Its called dipping the flag. This practice also varies from country to country. For instance, the US flag is never dipped.

Dipping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I don't think the flag in question was the national flag. I think, as with The Netherlands, the flag that people were honoring was the State flag bearing the arms of the nation/royal house.
 
NGalitzine said:
I don't think the flag in question was the national flag. I think, as with The Netherlands, the flag that people were honoring was the State flag bearing the arms of the nation/royal house.
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You are absolutely correct. The flag that was used at the wedding was the Civil flag and used only within the Grand Duchy. Thanks for correcting me. I just love learning new things every day. :D
 
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You see in this video, from 3:35 onwards, when Princess Elizabeth returns after tour, she was received by Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Consort. But Elizabeth did not curtsey her mother. I think it was a major miss.
And it was not a family thing, it was a full blown official event with all ministers and officials present. SO she should have curtseyed..

Vintage footage of Royal Family from 1951 & 1952 - YouTube

I already posted this matter, but now I got the video link so i put it again..
 
:previous:

I wouldn't call it official in any shape or form; just family members greeting their loved ones at the train station. I suppose Princess Elizabeth could have made a curtsey before hugging and kissing her mother, but given just how informal everything seemed in the video, it would have been quite unnecessary.
 
I guess it depends on the person. Please note that they were all royal and Elizabeth and Margaret are First and second in line to the throne. I am not sure I would bow or cursty to my family member.
 
How old is too old to curtsy without falling over or your knees giving out? I mean Queen Mary was 82 and had arthritis when her granddaughter became queen, and she gave her a to-the-floor curtsy.
 
Artemisia said:
:previous:

I wouldn't call it official in any shape or form; just family members greeting their loved ones at the train station. I suppose Princess Elizabeth could have made a curtsey before hugging and kissing her mother, but given just how informal everything seemed in the video, it would have been quite unnecessary.
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Artemisia, in the commentary it is said that they were joined by several ministers and officials. Just they were not shown. So its a bit official. All the Queen's children, or for that matter, any current monarch's kids curtsey their parents when meeting them, official or not..
 
I read that Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret hugged their parents when they left the house as Duke and Duchess and curtsied to them when they returned after the abdication as King and Queen.
 
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