Bowing and Curtseying

[susan alicia]

most touching curtsy I have seen was of Christina of spain at her wedding to her parents

 

[sarahedwards2]

I don't believe anyone HAS to curtsey to the Queen. But you could always nod your head, like the men do, I think.

Guys have it easy for everything!

 

[sarahedwards2]

When Charles and Anne were little, Queen Mary expected Charles to bow and Anne to curtsy to her. Charles gladly obliged; Anne rebelled. I also read that Anne rebelled against curtsying to her mother every morning as a teenager.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Even the duchess of Cambridge must bend - World - Macleans.ca

According to Rafal Heydel-Mankoo, co-editor of Burke’s Peerage & Gentry, Catherine's high profile throughout the Diamond Jubilee is a testament to how serious the Queen is about the new royal’s place within the Windsor family. It’s clear, says Heydel-Mankoo, “that the duchess of Cambridge is about as close to the heart of the monarchy as it is possible to be.”

 

[maria-olivia]

HM the Queen of Norway and other Ladies before the coffin of the late Princess Raghnild

 

[Catherine J]

HM the Queen of Norway and other Ladies before the coffin of the late Princess Raghnild

Hi Did you mean to add a link?

 

[fandesacs2003]

Even the duchess of Cambridge must bend - World - Macleans.ca

.”

Interesting article and scheme. I have a question. IF prince Harry marries a foreign Princess by blood, (example Princes Madeleine of Sweden) will Catherine be obliged to bend to her? Or only English born Prinesses by blood, have this right over Catherine?

 

[vkrish]

Queen Elizabeth II (The then Princess) curtseying..

Does anybody have a link or atleast seen a picture or video of Queen Elizabeth II curtseying to any foreign royals before her accesion? Or even her own parents?
I could not get such a thing anywhere..She went lucky, remaining as the one who got bows/curtseys her entire life but there is nowhere to show she herself doing that when she was a Princess...
And did anybody see the "Vintage Videos of Royal Family 1950-52"..When she and Duke of Edinburgh return from a visit to US and Canada..Then the Queen Elizabeth, Princess Margaret and Prince Charles come to railway station to receive them..Princess Elizabeth DID NOT curtsey to her mother, who is the Queen Consort..wasnt it an error of protocol..

 

[Artemisia]

I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of Queen Elizabeth curtseying to her parents.
As for foreign royals, here is a picture of the Queen (then Princess Elizabeth) curtseying to King Haakon VII of Norway).

I haven't seen the videos you describe, but by protocol, Princess Elizabeth should have curtseyed to the Queen Consort of the time.
However, since it was a non-official, family affair, protocol was not observed.

Between a Queen Consort and a Queen, WHO curtseys??

Technically, a Queen Regnant (as a Monarch and Head of State) outranks a Queen Consort (the wife of a Monarch). The difference is basically the same as First Lady (wife of a President) and a female President in her own right.

Between two Queens Regnant, the age is immaterial; as with all Heads of State (elected and Hereditary), precedence is determined by the date of accession to the Throne. Thus, Queen Elizabeth has the highest precedence of all Heads of State bar the King of Thailand.

As a rule, Queens (consort and regnant) either both curtsey to each other (as Queen Frederika and Queen Anne Marie did), or don't curtsey at all (as is the custom nowadays.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Even the duchess of Cambridge must bend - World - Macleans.ca

According to Rafal Heydel-Mankoo, co-editor of Burke’s Peerage & Gentry, Catherine's high profile throughout the Diamond Jubilee is a testament to how serious the Queen is about the new royal’s place within the Windsor family. It’s clear, says Heydel-Mankoo, “that the duchess of Cambridge is about as close to the heart of the monarchy as it is possible to be.”

This article states the only royals who are granted a curtsy are HM and the Duke of Edinburgh and that younger royals never curtsy to one another,

 

[Artemisia]

This article states that the only royals who are granted a curtsy are HM and the Duke of Edinburgh and that younger royals never curtsy to one another,

They don't indeed, not in our times and certainly not on private or semi-official occasions.
In fact, they don't curtsey to "older" (more senior) royals as well, such as the Duchess of Cornwall, the Prince of Wales or Princess Alexandra.

However, the younger royals do appear to curtsey to foreign royals who outrank them, regardless of age. Again, Kate curtseyed to pretty much all senior royals she met during the recent official events featuring foreign royals (like Diamond Jubilee Lunch).

 

[vkrish]

here is a picture of the Queen (then Princess Elizabeth) curtseying to King Haakon VII of Norway.

Wow.. thanks Artemisia, my longstanding wish to see HM The Queen curtseying was fulfilled..

 

[vkrish]

Duke of Kent bowing..

Did anybody see the Duke of Kent bowing to Queen when she visited Wimbledon 2 years back..That part was cut in most videos..But I got to see it in one..

Instead of doing it like a "passing act" like others do (nodding, while shaking hands etc..) the Duke made a full stiff bow in attention before proceeding to greet HM

 

[Dman]

The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge curtsey and bow to the Queen and the Duchess has been seen curtseying to the Duke of Edinburgh but the royals really don't curtsey to each other. The British press even had the American media think Catherine's rank was pretty low in the family because it was said she had to bend before all the royals.

If I'm saying this right, I think The Duchess of Cambridge is the thrid or fourth lady of the land.

 

[Dman]

Yeah, you will often see members of the royal family bow and curtsey to The Queen before they personally greet her.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/21/article-2162560-13B7EE8E000005DC-273_964x822.jpg

From Ascot 2012, curtseying to HM The Countess of Wesses, TRH Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, Christopher Rhys-Jones ( Sophie's Dad).

Even the duchess of Cambridge must bend - World - Macleans.ca

What about this article. Catherine appears to very high in the pecking order,

 

[Zonk]

Please note that all posts pertaining to the British Order of Precedence have been moved to

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/order-of-precedence-6536-40.html .

Thanks!

Zonk
Royal Chit Chat Moderator
​

 

[sarahedwards2]

Wow.. thanks Artemisia, my longstanding wish to see HM The Queen curtseying was fulfilled..

What about Princess Anne? I've seen her "curtsy before her mother, Her Majesty the Queen" in videos of both her wedding and Alexandra's; to the King and Queen of Norway (each on separate occasions), to Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands (although shielded by Diana), and in a video of Ascot. Are there any other occasions which I'm not aware of?

 

[vkrish]

What about Princess Anne? I've seen her "curtsy before her mother, Her Majesty the Queen" in videos of both her wedding and Alexandra's; to the King and Queen of Norway (each on separate occasions), to Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands (although shielded by Diana), and in a video of Ascot. Are there any other occasions which I'm not aware of?

Can you tell me the link or title of the video of her curtseying Camilla at Ascot and King Harald..I have never seen any videos of her curtseying (except wedding/Beatrix state visit)

I strongly feel a curtsey can never be appreciated fully in a pic..It has to be seen in total..with the full frame of the person..

 

[vkrish]

You happy with Camilla's curtsies?

I am no way a Diana-fanatic-Camilla-basher..
But I seriously find her curtsies are far more less than impressive..
Saw her curtseying the Queen at Ascot walkabout once and at Royal Wedding..Absolutely no grace/beauty..A totally strange action..Just for the sake of doing..Something performed by confused onlookers in crowds when Queen passes by them..
It is not a good precedent to be set by a future Queen Consort..Every royal woman, right from Anne to Eugenie/Autumn, and even Kate does much better curtsies..
Maybe bcos she cant get it right now as she didnt have good 'practice' in her youth..lolz

 

[Artemisia]

Can you tell me the link or title of the video of her curtseying Camilla at Ascot and King Harald..I have never seen any videos of her curtseying (except wedding/Beatrix state visit)

I strongly feel a curtsey can never be appreciated fully in a pic..It has to be seen in total..with the full frame of the person..

Below is the video of Anne (supposedly) curtseying to the Duchess of Cornwall. Go to 04:07

It does look like a curtsey, and Anne was certainly not even looking at the Queen, so presumably the curtsey was intended for someone else. Camilla is standing right in front of her, so it's logical to assume Anne was curtseying to her sister-in-law.

This said, it might just have been Anne bending down a little to have a better look at something. I must say I'm more inclined to believe in this version since it didn't strike me as a particularly official moment, one The Princess Royal would consider curtseying to The Duchess of Cornwall. And indeed, Beatrice and Eugenie didn't curtsey to the Queen upon greeting her, and they usually do that regardless of how official an event is (as long as it's not a completely private one).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9OvCF7RMc

 

[vkrish]

Uff..Is this the one people started telling everywhere that Anne curtsied to Camilla? Then its no way..That is hardly a curtsey..especially from Anne..If this is the only example ppl keep quoting, then I am damn sure she is never gonna curtsey Camilla (or any1 else, of course) till the latter becomes Queen Consort..

 

[Artemisia]

Uff..Is this the one people started telling everywhere that Anne curtsied to Camilla? Then its no way..That is hardly a curtsey..especially from Anne..If this is the only example ppl keep quoting, then I am damn sure she is never gonna curtsey Camilla (or any1 else, of course) till the latter becomes Queen Consort..

As far as I know, it's the only example. This said, the current generation of royals don't really curtsey to anyone but Kings and Queens with few exceptions (such as Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Princess Charlene, who seem to be happy showing respect to even their peers).

 

[Artemisia]

I am no way a Diana-fanatic-Camilla-basher..
But I seriously find her curtsies are far more less than impressive..
Saw her curtseying the Queen at Ascot walkabout once and at Royal Wedding..Absolutely no grace/beauty..A totally strange action..Just for the sake of doing..Something performed by confused onlookers in crowds when Queen passes by them..
It is not a good precedent to be set by a future Queen Consort..Every royal woman, right from Anne to Eugenie/Autumn, and even Kate does much better curtsies..
Maybe bcos she cant get it right now as she didnt have good 'practice' in her youth..lolz

I think Camilla's curtseys are just fine, quite graceful and age-appropriate. Have a look at Camilla curtseying to Queen Silvia during the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall's recent Scandinavia tour (at 00:49). It's a lovely little curtsey, elegant but not over-the top.

Considering Camilla's position as consort of the Heir Apparent to the Throne, there aren't many people she has to curtsey to - just foreign royal Heads of State, their spouses, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip (and that not always: Princess Charlene curtseyed to the Duchess of Cornwall, when it should have been the other way round).

At the same time, she is closer in age to most of current Monarchs and their spouses, so a deep, formal curtsey would have looked quite out of place. I think she has found the right balance between showing proper respect and not looking ridiculous.

 

[vkrish]

I think Camilla's curtseys are just fine, quite graceful and age-appropriate. Have a look at Camilla curtseying to Queen Silvia during the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall's recent Scandinavia tour (at 00:49). It's a lovely little curtsey, elegant but not over-the top.

Considering Camilla's position as consort of the Heir Apparent to the Throne, there aren't many people she has to curtsey to - just foreign crowned Heads of State, their spouses, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip (and that not always: Princess Charlene curtseyed to the Duchess of Cornwall, when it should have been the other way round).

At the same time, she is closer in age to most of current Monarchs and their spouses, so a deep, formal curtsey would have looked quite out of place. I think she has found the right balance between showing proper respect and not looking ridiculous.

I never had the view that the way of curtseying varies upon with the person being curtsied..I feel the way a person curtsies, she curtsies everyone the same way..
Anyways, I feel Camilla's curtsey for Queen Silvia is 'okay'..Just now saw a pic of her curtseying Empress Michiko..Same..
And even she cant bend too much in this age..that too with family history of osteoporosis..Elizabeth's longevity is affecting things in so many ways..

 

[Dman]

No I don't think Princess Anne was curtseying to Camilla. It has been said that Her Majesty don't measure the depth of a womans curtsey and I think it was mentioned in interviews and promgrammes about The Queen making fun of PM Margaret Thatcher's very low curtseys.

 

[AdmirerUS]

No I don't think Princess Anne was curtseying to Camilla. It has been said that Her Majesty don't measure the depth of a womans curtsey and I think it was mentioned in interviews and promgrammes about The Queen making fun of PM Margaret Thatcher's very low curtseys.

Curtsey or not - that's a lovely smile she gave to the DOC (or to the DOC's group)

 

[Dman]

Yes, I agree.

 

[vkrish]

Of course it may be true that HM doesnt care for depth of curtsey. And anyways I was not talking about Camilla's sincerity/loyalty to HM. We are just discussing their ways of doing it.

I think it was mentioned in interviews and promgrammes about The Queen making fun of PM Margaret Thatcher's very low curtseys.

I dont think there was any official interview/documentary which says HM made fun of Baroness Thatcher's deep curtsies. Its just a part of endless hearsay and gossip 'quoting' "insiders/courtiers/servants"..

 

[Dman]

Well It may be hearsay on Thatcher's curtseys but I think The Queen is fine with a slight bend of the knee and bow. I somehow think it's just up to the individual on how they curtsey and bow. Some choose to drop low and some don't.