Bowing and Curtseying

[Henri M.]

Princess Máxima makes a révérence to the King of the Belgians


Princess Máxima makes a révérence to Queen Sirikit of Thailand


Princess Máxima never makes a révérence to her mother-in-law. They always warmly greet each other with a kiss.


Pictures: ANP Press Agency Netherlands / bucketed on my own webspace

[Roxsteve]

Isn't weird to courtsey? I don't think I would do that to anyone, especially women who are now married to princes and were the same as we were before they got married. Why should I do that? I think that calling them your highness is good enough for me.

[Henri M.]

It is not obliged at all at most courts. It is just a mark of respect which was quite common and widespread. Not only to Sovereigns, but also to the local Lord or Lady, to the Master or Mastress, etc.

There are more 'oldfahioned things' like gunsalutes and bells tolling at the birth of a royal infant. Or a lady with an ermine mantle of 6 metres long.

Why? Just because we like it.

[BeatrixFan]

That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.

Maids always made a knick with their legs when leaving a room with the baron or baroness. Men immediately removed their hats or caps when the local noble passed you. There are plenty of pictures which still shows this custom until ca. 1965-1970 in the Netherlands. There is a popular program on Dutch TV called 'Andere Tijden' ('Different Times') which shows the amazing changes from the earliest reports around 1895 until now.

[BeatrixFan]

I apologise, I didn't realise you were only talking about the Netherlands. In Britain, curtseys and bows were reserved only for Royalty and the hat doffing thing was very different. Men doffed their hats to all ladies regardless of status.

[HRH Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Men doffed their hats to all ladies regardless of status.

Every once in a while, you'll find one who still does!

[BeatrixFan]

Oh I do. And I expect all the men to doff their hats to me too. Well, the pretty ones anyway.

[RoyalProtocol]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.

We have a Local Lord and Lady and everyone rises when the Dowager Lady enters the room and many nod their heads at her. My grandmother was Her housekeep and bobed to her along with the majority of the staff. Though they only ever done a propoer curtsey if a Royal visitor was present which happened on several occasions. It is also customary to curtsey to a Cardinal or high anglican bishop on very very formal occasions, and to Governor-Generals.

[Sister Morphine]

It was actually quite common for the "help" to slightly curtsy to their employers back in the day. Watch Titanic for a good example of that. When Rose is getting her corset laced and Ruth [Rose's mom] came in the room and told Trudy the maid to go make some tea, she said "Yes ma'am" and bobbed a curtsy. This was 1912 and with the very rich from the USA. I've seen it in films set in the 1920s and 30s as well. It wasn't a pronounced curtsy like you'd see one give to a Princess or a Queen, but it was an acknowledgment that they held a position of authority over you.


I don't know how common it is now to have that happen, but it wasn't all that long ago that it was considered common practice.

[BeatrixFan]

As I said, period dramas have their own rules. If you read any etiquette guide from the 1900s right through to the present day, you'll see that staff don't bow or curtsey to their employers unless their employers are Royalty. If people do then it's of course up to them but it certainly isn't required. I quote firstly from "Lady Troubridge's Book of Etiquette 1929";

There is nothing more off putting at a dinner party than obseqious servants. Servants should not bow or curtsey to their employers. If an employer insists that their staff should perform dramatic deference, the staff should politely decline. Such a request would only display arrogance in the employer.

And from "Etiquette, A Guide for Modern Ladies, 1911";

Bows and Curtseys are reserved only for those of Royal birth and should not be expected of staff by their employers. Bows should be made from the waist and curtseys should be deep. They are executed twice, once upon meeting the Royal Personage and again upon leaving the presence of the Royal Personage.

And then from "The Guide to Etiquette and Modern Manners, 1989";

The modern belief that servants have always bobbed in and out of grand parlours is a rumour started by period dramas and low budget movies from America. Staff certainly shouldn't be expected to bow or curtsey to their employers and such displays are saved for Royalty. Bows are executed from the neck and are now optional. The requirement to bow and curtsey as Royalty passes seems to have been forgotten, along with all other forms of good manners. Curtseys are intended to be quick bobs and large sweeping curtseys a la Mrs Thatcher are best left for the stage.

I rest my case

[juliana]

Love Sense and Sensibility though- all those little polite bows and curtsies to each other. However, have seen personally most people slightly head bowing only to the royals now. Sad? I don't know, but life is changing obviously and we are becoming more egalitarian.

[Cordonez]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered...

Where does Prince Philip fall in the order for bowing? Since he is married to Queen Elizabeth does he react to other royals as a king or a prince? Meaning no bowing?

Thanks

[BeatrixFan]

He'll bow to his wife and any King, Queen, Emperor, Empress, reigning Grand Duke or Grand Duchess.

[Lord Sosnowitz]

I have seen just once Princess Maxima curtsied. :(
To King of Thailand.

[magnik]

Originally Posted by Lord Sosnowitz

I have seen just once Princess Maxima curtsied. :(
To King of Thailand.

Maxima sometimes she curtsied (look on Henri M. posts on the top) and sometimes she just giving a kiss. It depend where and with who she is.

[CP Martijn]

Maxima doesn't always curtsey, depending on the person or on the event itself.
However, Maxima isn't really used to the curtsey stuff, as it isn't necessary in The Netherlands.
Still, she does it quite good (perhaps a less better than Mette Marit does)

[Lord Sosnowitz]

I know it. Unfourtunately it isn't custom in The Netherlands.

[Her_Majesty]

Anni-Frid Lyngstad and Agnetha Fältskog curtseying dramatically in front of King Carl-Gustav and Silvia Sommerlath on their Pre-wedding-concert

source: AbbaOnTV.com