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  #1681  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:38 PM
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I believe that a bishop is considered a prince of the church. She probably did it more out of respect for him and his position, and perhaps RC protocol. I'm a little hazy on that but I've seen other catholic royals bow or kiss the hands of high ranking RC clergy.
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  #1682  
Old 11-20-2013, 04:18 PM
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Its Catholic protocol to kiss the episcopal ring of a Bishop or an Archbishop ,the church used to be very strict about such customs.I remember recently seeing King Juan Carlos doing this before Mass as he greeted the Archbishop.

(From my Catholic youth we were all taught by the nuns to genuflect in the presence of our Bishop.)
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  #1683  
Old 11-20-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Its Catholic protocol to kiss the episcopal ring of a Bishop or an Archbishop ,the church used to be very strict about such customs.I remember recently seeing King Juan Carlos doing this before Mass as he greeted the Archbishop.

(From my Catholic youth we were all taught by the nuns to genuflect in the presence of our Bishop.)
I remember that too from my Catholic upbringing. One of my relatives was a Jesuit priest and would come over to the house for a few drinks and a game of cards with the adults but before he left, we all knelt for a blessing. I do believe to this day (although I've left the Christian faith) that kneeling, along with bowing and curtsying, are methods of showing respect, reverence and humility.
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  #1684  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:28 PM
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It is cardinals who are princes of the church, not bishops and archbishops. Bishops are considered as modern apostles(this is not easy to explain). When I was a practicing catholic I would have curtsied to a cardinal but not to a bishop because at the time things were not as strict. I do know people in my native Poland who go down on one knee and kiss the hands of priests even.

I think it's nice that Charlene shows such reverence. I don't know if it's actually required of her or comes from her desire to show respect. I don't know what her level of devotion to the church is.

I haven't seen pictures of any of the other Monegasque ladies doing the same. Are there any such pictures?
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  #1685  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:45 PM
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Princesses Caroline and Stephanie almost always bow/curtsey in the presence of the Archbishop of Monaco. Caroline was once photographed kneeling. Here is a video that shows the two of them them being received for the Mass yesterday:

Messe solennelle pour la Fête Nationale du 19 novembre / Videos / Monaco Info : Les Reportages / Chaines - MC Channel - Chaînes vidéos de Monaco
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  #1686  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:45 PM
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All 3 of the Monegasque Princesses genuflected to the Archbishop of Monaco upon arrival at the Cathedral prior to yesterday's Mass and also at the end of the video below.

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  #1687  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:54 PM
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Thank you An Ard Ri.

A Roman Catholic bishop is a direct descendent of the twelve Apostles through apostolic succession and the sacrament of Holy Orders down the centuries, and is therefore much more than "just a priest" to any practicing and well brought up member of the Church.

I realize that it looks odd to some non-Catholics, but the believer is not making a reverence to the Bishop or Cardinal himself, but to who he represents.
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  #1688  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:03 PM
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They only bow and curtsey to the head priest. It is showing respect for the Catholic church.
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  #1689  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:30 PM
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They only bow and curtsey to the head priest. It is showing respect for the Catholic church.
There's no such thing as a head priest in the Catholic Church,the Monegasque Princesses are genuflecting to the Archbishop of Monaco who is the highest ranking prelate in the Principality of Monaco.
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  #1690  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:32 PM
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Thank you An Ard Ri.



I realize that it looks odd to some non-Catholics, but the believer is not making a reverence to the Bishop or Cardinal himself, but to who he represents.
You're welcome

Yes it does,especially when you see a King/Queen (King Juan Carlos/Queen Sofia of Spain) or Sovereign Prince doing so,but its part of Roman Catholic ceremony and Protocol.
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  #1691  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:30 PM
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It's still custom (here) to kneel to a bishop, even to kiss his ring. It's not required of course. However I can't imagine any orthodox (faithfully practicing) Catholic who wouldn't make some sort of bow/genuflect/kiss the ring of the pope...even down to a cardinal and a bishop it's not uncommon to see.

We have a few Fillipino ladies here at Mass and they take the priests hand and put it to their forehead. I always assume it's a cultural thing.


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  #1692  
Old 11-22-2013, 01:02 PM
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I understand being respectful towards the priests but still do not understand the curtsey part. Shaking the hand, maybe kiss the hand but to curtsey to a priest is somewhat odd to me. If anything I would think it should be the other way around. It almost seems awkward that she would do that. Am I being too critical here?

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  #1693  
Old 11-22-2013, 01:44 PM
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I'm catholic but I've kissed a bishop's hand (ring) just once in my life (and being quite active in my local church I've been in touch with my local archbishops frequently)...I think this is one of those things that goes with tradition and people's sentiment. Our new archbishop is young and doesn't allow us to kneel or kiss his hand...he just shakes our hands. Olders however still use the old ways.
that said...I presume one has to bow a little in order to kiss one's hand (it's a sort of submission after all) and it can look rather awkward if you do it the way men kiss ladies' hand. so probably men bow and ladies curtsey as they would do with royal figures.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
I understand being respectful towards the priests but still do not understand the curtsey part. Shaking the hand, maybe kiss the hand but to curtsey to a priest is somewhat odd to me. If anything I would think it should be the other way around. It almost seems awkward that she would do that. Am I being too critical here?

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I think it may be a bit too critical. This is just the way things are done, in Monaco especially. Charlene isn't the only person who has curtsied to a priest. Princesses Stephanie and Caroline both do it, as did Princess Grace.

It's a part of their royal tradition. Too often are people critical of the tradition and customs, or lack thereof, of the Monaco royals--then when there is some tradition thrown their way, they view it as odd.

The traditions and customs of the Princely House of Monaco are always going to be different than those of other royal families. They are the only royals with French and Italian heritage, and their customs and the way they act are very much of that culture.
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  #1695  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:15 PM
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Yes. You are right. What may be tradition for some may seem odd to people who are not familiar with it. I found it strange as I have never seen that done by a royal. Traditions are that way I suppose.
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  #1696  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:26 PM
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Yes--especially with Monaco. Think about it ...

The royal traditions in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark don't seem so odd to most because all three nations have a lot of the came customs--because they are so close culturally and geographically. The same goes with the Netherlands and Belgium--and Luxembourg follows suit a lot of the time.

The UK is a beast all in itself because they are known and get attention in the rest of the non-monarchy nations--so their traditions don't seem so odd.

Monaco is all on it's own. I'm sure if France and Italy still had monarchies, a lot of their traditions would be very similar to those of Monaco. Their royals would probably also be just "unconventional" in their personal lives, too, so to speak. That's just how the Italian and French cultures are -- as is the Monegasque culture.
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  #1697  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:26 PM
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Monaco is very conservative. Women didn't get the right to vote until the 1960s. I don't find it surprising that they stick to long held traditions.
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  #1698  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:05 PM
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Wow. Conservative didn't even cross my mind. It seems like a very modern society with loads of glamour and wealth. I guess I don't see the conservative in a country that is so geared towards excess. Just saying.
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  #1699  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:39 PM
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Monaco is very conservative. Women didn't get the right to vote until the 1960s. I don't find it surprising that they stick to long held traditions.
Seriously??? The 1960s????
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:46 PM
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Seriously??? The 1960s????
Yup, 1962. Andorra didn't get it until 1970, Switzerland until 1971, and Lichtenstein until 1984.
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