The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1341  
Old 11-06-2012, 03:29 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Oh, Osipi..my point is not the flag or paying respects to it. It is about curtseying to the flag. Do normal citizens in Norway/ Denmark/Sweden curtsey to their flags? Then why did the Princesses do? They should have bowed to it. The way of paying respect to a flag is same for everyone, be it the monarch or a commoner..they should have bowed to the flag, just like every other of their countrymen/women do..
Curtseying is a way of showing respect to an individual, not a flag..
I would amend that statement to read that the way of paying respect to a flag is the same for everyone in their own country. OK so that's close to the answer you were expecting to get eh? Different strokes for different folks.

I looked up different meanings of the word curtsey. In none of them did it specificially mention that it is limited to individuals only.

curtsy, curtsey [ˈkɜːtsɪ]
n pl -sies, -seys
a formal gesture of greeting and respect made by women in which the knees are bent, the head slightly bowed, and the skirt held outwards.

In this regards, a woman was well within protocol to make a curtsey to the national flag. When I think more about it, this makes sense as with how the processional into the church went, bowing and curseying (choice of the person) could also have represented paying respects to the head of state. Anyone remember if the congregation bowed as either Henri or MT made their way up the aisle?

Another little interesting tidbit I happened to find while we're on this subject of respects to a flag. Sometimes even flags do their own little bow (or curtsey if its windy). Its called dipping the flag. This practice also varies from country to country. For instance, the US flag is never dipped.

Dipping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________

__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1342  
Old 11-06-2012, 03:51 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
I don't think the flag in question was the national flag. I think, as with The Netherlands, the flag that people were honoring was the State flag bearing the arms of the nation/royal house.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1343  
Old 11-06-2012, 04:43 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I don't think the flag in question was the national flag. I think, as with The Netherlands, the flag that people were honoring was the State flag bearing the arms of the nation/royal house.
You are absolutely correct. The flag that was used at the wedding was the Civil flag and used only within the Grand Duchy. Thanks for correcting me. I just love learning new things every day.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1344  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:52 PM
vkrish's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 842
You see in this video, from 3:35 onwards, when Princess Elizabeth returns after tour, she was received by Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Consort. But Elizabeth did not curtsey her mother. I think it was a major miss.
And it was not a family thing, it was a full blown official event with all ministers and officials present. SO she should have curtseyed..



I already posted this matter, but now I got the video link so i put it again..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1345  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425


I wouldn't call it official in any shape or form; just family members greeting their loved ones at the train station. I suppose Princess Elizabeth could have made a curtsey before hugging and kissing her mother, but given just how informal everything seemed in the video, it would have been quite unnecessary.
Reply With Quote
  #1346  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:25 PM
DukeOfAster's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pembroke, United States
Posts: 180
I guess it depends on the person. Please note that they were all royal and Elizabeth and Margaret are First and second in line to the throne. I am not sure I would bow or cursty to my family member.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1347  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:03 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 465
How old is too old to curtsy without falling over or your knees giving out? I mean Queen Mary was 82 and had arthritis when her granddaughter became queen, and she gave her a to-the-floor curtsy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1348  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:20 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: City on islands, Sweden
Posts: 1,086
Marilyn Monroe curtseying to queen Elizabeth:
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1349  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:37 PM
vkrish's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post


I wouldn't call it official in any shape or form; just family members greeting their loved ones at the train station. I suppose Princess Elizabeth could have made a curtsey before hugging and kissing her mother, but given just how informal everything seemed in the video, it would have been quite unnecessary.
Artemisia, in the commentary it is said that they were joined by several ministers and officials. Just they were not shown. So its a bit official. All the Queen's children, or for that matter, any current monarch's kids curtsey their parents when meeting them, official or not..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1350  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:13 AM
AnnEliza's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Seattle, United States
Posts: 325
I read that Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret hugged their parents when they left the house as Duke and Duchess and curtsied to them when they returned after the abdication as King and Queen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1351  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:28 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKeen
I read that Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret hugged their parents when they left the house as Duke and Duchess and curtsied to them when they returned after the abdication as King and Queen.
No, they were told that when their father came home at lunch he would be King, and that they would have to curtsy to him.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1352  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:40 AM
IloveCP's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Palm Springs, United States
Posts: 4,918
In The King's Speech, the two princesses curtsied to him after he became King. I wonder if that really happened.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1353  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:20 PM
vkrish's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKeen View Post
I read that Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret hugged their parents when they left the house as Duke and Duchess and curtsied to them when they returned after the abdication as King and Queen.
I find all these phrases a bit dramatic, arent they?

Hugged them while they left, curtsied when they arrived..
Climbed up as Princess, climbed down as Queen..
Curtsied her first and then scolded her for wearing short skirt..

They may not be factually wrong, but seem to be added just to endear the people emotionally to the said royals.
Anyways, its always cool to read such things.
Such 'dramatism' is found more in the writings and commentaries of 50s, 60s, and invariably in all British Pathe videos. I hardly see it nowadays.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1354  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:09 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 1,027
Prince and Princess Michael of Kent receive curtsey from Leonie Frieda at launch of book The Deadly Sisterhood at Kensington Palace | Mail Online

Thought it was a nice illustration for this thread..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1355  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:33 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,785
I know some people get into the technical stuff of who should curtsey to who but I really don't think Catherine curtsey's to Charles & Camilla. At least I haven't seen her do so. I think the main people Catherine and other young members just curtsey to The Queen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1356  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425


I think the rule of thumb these days is that you curtsey to the Monarch and his/her spouse, and then only the first time you meet them during the day.
It has to be some super-official (or a more relaxed official one, like the Jubilee Lunch) event for more curtsies to pop up.

Most of the discussion in this thread as to who must curtsey to whom is indeed technicality; it might have been relevant a century or even a couple of decades ago, when protocol and etiquette were strictly adhered to, but not in our times.

Mostly, it's a question of precedence; for instance, strictly speaking Kate should curtsey to Camilla and Sophie (when they are on their own, unaccompanied by spouses), but we have never seen that happen. On the other hand, Mette-Marit of Norway shouldn't curtsey to her peers (fellow Crown Princesses) and Charlene of Monaco - to anyone at all (since she's the wife of Head of State), yet we have seen both curtsey to Camilla (who is Mette-Marit's equal and actually has lower rank than Charlene).
Reply With Quote
  #1357  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:55 PM
vkrish's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I know some people get into the technical stuff of who should curtsey to who but I really don't think Catherine curtsey's to Charles & Camilla. At least I haven't seen her do so. I think the main people Catherine and other young members just curtsey to The Queen.
Oh Come on, they dont keep curtseying each other..They just bow and curtsey the Queen and DoE.. I doubt if they bow/curtsey DoE..cos I havent seen anyone curtseying him, even when they both are together. This year Trooping balcony was the first time I saw someone(Kate) from family curtsey him
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1358  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:04 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: City on islands, Sweden
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
On the other hand, Mette-Marit of Norway shouldn't curtsey to her peers (fellow Crown Princesses) and Charlene of Monaco - to anyone at all (since she's the wife of Head of State), yet we have seen both curtsey to Camilla (who is Mette-Marit's equal and actually has lower rank than Charlene).
That probably have to do with them seeing Camilla as senior in age, at least here in Sweden when curtseying was common a younger woman curtseyed for a woman older than her, even if both had the same rank, I would guess it was the same in Norway.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1359  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:15 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425


In my country as well age is arguably more important than rank and reverence, respect towards older people are a norm.
In Matte-Marit's case, I agree it was more a mark of a respect towards a somewhat older lady (and a good friend, judging by their interaction) than a question of protocol. The same probably applies to Charlene as well; she is one of the youngest Consorts around so it's a bit hard for her to navigate.
Reply With Quote
  #1360  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:50 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NN, Lithuania
Posts: 666
Charlene is HSH, Camilla has title HRH.
Princess Mary of Teck was HSH before marriage therefore her position in family was very low.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Sashes | - »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman picture of the month poland pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:35 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]